IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #1,321
And this is in reply to Sapphire too:

I have seen the comments from Heather about how Elizabeth is in heaven and the comments about hoping for 'punishment' for the killer, but also forgiving him/her. I'm not interested in any of Drew's comments. I just want to know specifically if Heather has mentioned any kind of expectation of divine punishment for the perpetrator.

Because you know, eternal damnation a lot worse than prison or the chair.

A link would be awesome. Thank you.

I don't believe I've seen any comment about divine punishment specifically made by Heather. She talks about forgiveness, but from what I've seen she is seeking earthly punishment for her daughter's killer. JMO.
 
  • #1,322
I just ran across this article about Lizzie's Life and Love Celebration:

The celebration will be in place of a funeral, Drew said, adding that the family will hold a private burial at a later date.

http://dmjuice.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121213/NEWS/121213030/1001/NEWS

I wonder why they've changed to a public burial?

I don't know about you guys, but I think there's a good possibility the perp(s) will be at the funeral. JMO
 
  • #1,323
Did Heather make her "forgiveness" comments before the girls were found? Has she repeated the same statements afterward? Just curious.

Yes, she has stated it after the girls were found:

Investigators believe they are getting closer to finding the person responsible, and when they are caught Collins says, she’s forgiving them. “We have forgiven whoever did this and we still do. Whoever did this, we forgive you and it’s not for us to judge you and what you’ve done to our daughter and our niece.”

http://whotv.com/2012/12/11/final-goodbye-elizabeth-collins-mom-shares-heartbreak/
 
  • #1,324
Yes, she has stated it after the girls were found:

Investigators believe they are getting closer to finding the person responsible, and when they are caught Collins says, she’s forgiving them. “We have forgiven whoever did this and we still do. Whoever did this, we forgive you and it’s not for us to judge you and what you’ve done to our daughter and our niece.”

http://whotv.com/2012/12/11/final-goodbye-elizabeth-collins-mom-shares-heartbreak/

Deleted my post because I found the answer lol, we must have been reading that info at the same time.
 
  • #1,325
I just can't wrap my head around forgiving the killer before you even know who he is. You don't even know the COD. What if the killer is arrested, and then at the trial, he shows no remorse for what he did? What if he seems to get a "thrill" out of hearing all the details described again? I thought you had to ask for forgiveness, before you are actually granted it. To just forgive the killer without knowing who he is, what exactly he did to Elizabeth, and whether the killer is even sorry for what he did seems odd. The killer has not suffered any consequences for what he did, yet you forgive him. Okay.

Perhaps the public declarations of forgiveness are to make the killer(s) confess or perhaps it is the only way she can function, through faith and forgiveness?
 
  • #1,326
As most know, I'm a New Yorker. 10 miles from CT/New England.

Yankees VS Red Sox. Today I stand with Boston. Great City. :rocker:

I cannot even imagine the horror there. I am researching now.
I apologize for OT. My heart goes out to the great folks in Boston.

:heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:

Love you guys.
 
  • #1,327
Perhaps the public declarations of forgiveness are to make the killer(s) confess or perhaps it is the only way she can function, through faith and forgiveness?

Agreed. Forgiveness has little to do with the transgressor, and nothing to do with excusing the transgression. Forgiveness frees the forgiver.
 
  • #1,328
The only thing I question is if LE know who the perp is, why wouldn't they at the very least, bring this person in for questioning.

If this is the case, I hope LE has someone watching this person 24/7 :what:

imo

Do you know the name of anyone who has been questioned? Because I don't. I know folks have been, LE and msm and common sense has told me so, but I wouldn't have a clue who exactly they have questioned or how many times, over the last few months. I'd love to know...!
:dunno:
 
  • #1,329
As most know, I'm a New Yorker. 10 miles from CT/New England.

Yankees VS Red Sox. Today I stand with Boston. Great City. :rocker:

I cannot even imagine the horror there. I am researching now.
I apologize for OT. My heart goes out to the great folks in Boston.

:heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:

Love you guys.

Thanks. We appreciate it.

And hey, my son-in-law's a Yankee fan :)
 
  • #1,330
Because when I was in Evansdale this last time, I walked Maiden lane and picked up a large green Cabela bag, I finally looked at it more closely today and noticed weeds had grown thru some of the holes in it's plastic. So Im confident that bag was there last summer. I looked for a receipt inside, there wasn't one. I know hunters shop at Cabelas, so it sparked my interest.

I wish you had taken a picture for us Cindersoot! You know how nosy we are! Dang it! I keep telling y'all..... It's gonna be Cindersoot or 3CK that gets the girls' case solved.... and WE ALL HELPED! I can feel it in my bones! :please:
 
  • #1,331
Thanks. We appreciate it.

And hey, my son-in-law's a Yankee fan :)

Hearts with you all tonight.
Boston is a fine town. :rocker:
 
  • #1,332
Do you know the name of anyone who has been questioned? Because I don't. I know folks have been, LE and msm and common sense has told me so, but I wouldn't have a clue who exactly they have questioned or how many times, over the last few months. I'd love to know...!
:dunno:

IIRC there has been nothing in MSM about anyone being brought in for questioning.

But then, that isn't information I would expect LE to release. JMO.
 
  • #1,333
Do you know the name of anyone who has been questioned? Because I don't. I know folks have been, LE and msm and common sense has told me so, but I wouldn't have a clue who exactly they have questioned or how many times, over the last few months. I'd love to know...!
:dunno:

I'm not sure if this is allowed, but if you recall Jesse James Bowser, who is now listed as a RSO after raping a 12 year old girl in an Evansdale trailer court and claimed to be a cousin to Lyric, according to Facebook posts by his sister during his arrest, he was questioned about the girls.
 
  • #1,334
Yes, she has stated it after the girls were found:

Investigators believe they are getting closer to finding the person responsible, and when they are caught Collins says, she’s forgiving them. “We have forgiven whoever did this and we still do. Whoever did this, we forgive you and it’s not for us to judge you and what you’ve done to our daughter and our niece.”

http://whotv.com/2012/12/11/final-goodbye-elizabeth-collins-mom-shares-heartbreak/

I could never forgive the person(s) who took a family member(s) from me and destroyed the life I had. I would be demanding answers about what happened to them and why and do everything I could to ensure they were held accountable for their actions.

I don't judge those who do forgive though I hope I am never in the horrific situation they are in.
 
  • #1,335
I'm not sure if this is allowed, but if you recall Jesse James Bowser, who is now listed as a RSO after raping a 12 year old girl in an Evansdale trailer court and claimed to be a cousin to Lyric, according to Facebook posts by his sister during his arrest, he was questioned about the girls.

I'm sure there's a heck of a lot of Facebook but nothing we here can use :(

The point is, LE have questioned many, many people, and have revealed the names of none of them, so we really can't say x has/hasn't been questioned...we just don't know for sure.
 
  • #1,336
Thanks - the most recent thing I could find was this article from a couple of weeks ago:

Iowa remains one of the 17 states without the death penalty; however, this quality of Iowa could change with a new bill that has been introduced by Sen. Kent Sorenson.

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/news/article_46a173c4-8765-11e2-82dd-0019bb2963f4.html

Thank you Marilyn! Have I told you lately that your avatar is my most favorite kitty picture EVER?

Excellent link as always!!!! Snipped from the article:

The death penalty will cause immense changes to Iowa’s penal code.

“This bill will have a huge impact on our judicial system. It would put us back into the times of Hammurabi, whose law was an eye for an eye, and I would not be in favor of this bill,” said Jefferson Fink, president of the Political Science Club.

“My concern: is it worth killing a convicted murderer, in a relativity short amount of time, or it is more of a punishment for the convict to have to deal with the constant guilt of having killed someone.”

I believe it is more of a punishment for the convict to have to live in prison than be executed. Their life should suck for however many years they make it in prison... BUT, I also believe that having the death penalty as an option has also helped similar cases in the past. Admittedly, I am the weakest link-giver here (working on getting better on that) and I cannot immediately think of a case where the death penalty was taken off the table and thus the family got a confession of what happened to their loved one. . . but I know they are out there.

Still looking for that original article, it had all the families... The Collins, the family of the murdered 12-year-old African-American girl and the family of the young woman who was shot by her former radiologist lover after she dumped him, were all mentioned in the article. Sorensen and Fink were mentioned or quoted in the article too. My ADHD is wreaking havoc on me tonight. This Boston bombing has me very shaken. One of my co-workers is scheduled to run in a local marathon. She's 70 and one of my heros! It's a town of about 30,000, but I am going to call her tomorrow and beg her and her husband NOT to do it! :please:

BTW - Where is Chelsea6? She hasn't posted in FOREVER! but I saw her thanks the other night!!! Skeet - I know you'll help solve this case too! Superbee, Sapphire, otto, GrainneDhu.... All of you, every single one of you, are in my heart!
 
  • #1,337
This is what I have trouble with, also.

My faith, which admittedly can be shaky at times, certainly isn't strong enough for me to offer forgiveness to the unknown murderer of my child. JMO.

I have read of family members who have forgiven a murderer after trial and conviction. But that's different, IMO.

I don't know if I could forgive such an atrocity either. I don't believe I know anyone personally with such strong religious conviction as Heather seems to portray. There was that letter to the abductor and now murderer too that was written by Misty that seemed strange to me too, but I always believed that a criminal profiler had told her/them what to write in that letter.

OT: Bunnyhop, Foxbluff, eileenhawkeye, greg, janie, carbuff, ShyViolet, Rose ofSharon, joerose, Reverie, Fukiyama!..... I keep forgetting everyone.... :seeya: I love all of your posts!
 
  • #1,338
Ted Bundy, BTK, the Green River Killer, Dahmer, Jason Downie, all started this way.

Isabel Celis's parents both work in medicine and both have been subject to suspicion...the reason being, as in this case, there is a general perception that the family's reaction seems "off", and that they have shown a degree of conflict and uncooperation with LE and the investigation. This could be construed as a red flag.


At this stage no one knows who is connected, especially us here on WS, so we cannot state if it is a "wild, unsupported" connection or not, nor will we be able to until an arrest is made. :dunno:


Opening someone else's mail is a "criminal act" so's driving without a seatbelt and jaywalking -, it's safe to say most adults have committed a "criminal act" at some point in their life, even unknowingly.



This statement bewilders me - Evansdale is a small town. The likliehood is that there is some sort of connection with the family, if the perp lives in Evansdale, whether it's their dog groomer's son or their neighbour's grandma's neighbour, a guy at the local service station or a city worker that Drew has come across through work. We know that statistically at least, the girls are most likely to be familiar to their abductor..:waitasec:

Some "pointed the finger" at a certain cyclist, just because they knew his name. We all know family are the first ones investigated, and I haven't heard anyone's been definitively "ruled out" so far. It seems purely arbitrary when "sleuthing" becomes "pointing the finger". :banghead:
The only ones we can all agree are victims right now, are Elizabeth and Lyric.
Their chosen lifestyle has increased the risk to their children. Lyric at least was regarded as an "endangered child" right from the word go, due to her parent's antics. Neither parent used the shock of their daughter's disappearance to "go clean" or stay clean, both committed crimes during and after the girls vanishing - they carried on as usual, in other words. They are "easy targets" because they can't keep away from the firing range.


The only "facts" we have confirmed is the girls were last seen at 12.15 on Brovan, bodies found in December at 7 bridges, and their bikes were found at 3.50 on the day at the lake. Nothing else has been made public or confirmed by LE?.:dunno:
He did not warn of a "predator in our community" which is either borderline incompetent (considering everyone agrees the perp lives in/visits Evansdale) or he knows something we don't.
I disagree with this, LE here at least put 100% into all missing persons no matter if they are repeat runaways (it usually means they find them, as occurs in most missing persons cases).


Some think LE are fumbling around like the Keystone Cops and have absolutely no clue - but I'm not one of them. I don't watch CSI, and don't expect it all to be tied up with a pretty bow in under 60 minutes. Real life investigations don't work that way, even when there is a clear and obvious suspect (Josh and Susan Powell, Casey Anthony, I can go on).

The language LE uses is so soft it indicates to me that they are not worried about a repeat crime. The communications they have with the press are so generic and hollow, I do not detect a sense of alarm or urgency or increased concern even. The only explanation I can see for this is, LE know who the perp is and are still trying to gather evidence.

FWIW my opinion is this perp is a convicted felon, has a long history of crimes and arrests and jail time, but possibly not for violent crime. I don't even think the girls were touched, personally, just let go and shot while running, by a coward with a weak stomach. :cow:

Two thumbs up SS! I agree with everything you said. I don't know about the other serial killers, but I know Dahmer started with animal mutilations. I don't know if he was ever caught and prosecuted, but he started out killing animals and actually if I remember his bio correctly, he was fascinated with roadkill!
 
  • #1,339
I just ran across this article about Lizzie's Life and Love Celebration:

The celebration will be in place of a funeral, Drew said, adding that the family will hold a private burial at a later date.

http://dmjuice.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121213/NEWS/121213030/1001/NEWS

I wonder why they've changed to a public burial?

I don't know about you guys, but I think there's a good possibility the perp(s) will be at the funeral. JMO

Yay! The article came up for me! I had not seen this one either! I have seen a picture of the Collins' 4-year-old, Callie, and she is a little doll too. I haven't seen Amber. I do agree that the perp will be at the funeral. I think he attended the "Celebrations of Lives". He may have developed an infatuation with Heather.

:goodnight: all. Hubby and dog say it is bedtime! Everyone sleep tight!

:seeya: to Confusion on Boston thread!
 
  • #1,340
And this is in reply to Sapphire too:

I have seen the comments from Heather about how Elizabeth is in heaven and the comments about hoping for 'punishment' for the killer, but also forgiving him/her. I'm not interested in any of Drew's comments. I just want to know specifically if Heather has mentioned any kind of expectation of divine punishment for the perpetrator.

Because you know, eternal damnation a lot worse than prison or the chair.

A link would be awesome. Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. What would you like to say to anyone who may have taken your precious daughter and your precious niece?

COLLINS: Just what I`ve always said is, you know what? I do not pass judgment on anybody. that is for God to do. I forgive you. God has forgiven you, so I will forgive you. We just want our children brought back.

I don`t want to know who you are. I don`t care who you are. I just want them dropped off at the police station or at my house and just be seen running to my house. That`s all I want. I don`t -- I don`t care who you are. I don`t want to know who you are. It`s not -- it`s not for me to -- to judge you or for whatever reason you have decided to do this.

Obviously, you know, you have a lot of evil in you. And, you know, God will work on your heart. We are praying that God will work on your heart and just continuously put it in your brain that -- to bring the children home safely. You know, so much that it is just hurting you and you can`t deal with it anymore until you bring the girls back home safe.


@http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

I haven't got all her speeches though, a heck of a lot were not transcribed. But the general idea is the same, no focus on vengeance at all that I can tell :twocents:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
140
Guests online
2,239
Total visitors
2,379

Forum statistics

Threads
632,498
Messages
18,627,643
Members
243,171
Latest member
neckdeepinstories
Back
Top