ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[Which_pancake]

You might want to scroll and roll through this...

I learned a ton about cell phone triangulation during the Mollie Tibbets case. I'm sure it's been pointed out already here, but what gives LE a more accurate location, imo, is not the individual pings, but the movement of the phone as it pings, because as it moves in range of different towers, it will ping in that tower's range within a certain direction and distance. When the phone pings off several towers as it moves (like within a vehicle driving), the cell tower data begins to overlap, like a ven diagram, making a more and more specific location. I'm horrible at explaining this, I'm sorry. And most likely I'm screwed up like I am on so many other details. Anyway, here's a homemade map (sorry, it's from the MT thread) as an example. The phone pings off one tower, then as they drive, pings off another. Where the towers' ranges and distances overlap becomes the general vicinity of the phone (the yellow section).

That was so fascinating to me during that trial. Ever since, whenever I see a cell phone tower I try to tell which side my phone might be pinging off of.

 

[NCgardener]

What is the “well researched subject”? Am I missing something?

The DSM entries. The one I'm thinking of would be an interesting discussion, but most all of them have a lot of interesting research related to them. For example, on impulsiveness or compulsions, etc. I'm just trying to show how that can be helpful in understanding a killer's behavior. Their behavior usually seems foreign to us because they are usually abnormal.

 

[acutename]

On page 17 it only says the car drove past Kate's Cup of Joe..not that it was in the drive-thru. IMO the drive-thru statement came from somewhere else.
Affidavit

this is Kate's from their Facebook:

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It is all drive through.... maybe he was using it as a U turn

 

[Tillyjames]

Oh it’s just because I’m a visual learner, I remember stuff like that, I guess. Plus he kind of stands out.

I don’t think he would have stood out as a customer at the grocery store IMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I have said this before in various forms, but in light of the ongoing discussion of BK's mental condition I feel it bears repeating.

I am skeptical of the proposition that BK was "mentally ill", and assuming he is, that this would explain his actions and be somehow relevant to his defense.

If you examine the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5-TR), you'll find yourself and most if not all your friends there. The DSM is designed to help trained and experienced professionals diagnose and treat their patients, not to help armchair psychologists to speculate about the possibility that a thrill/spree/mass murder suspect has a diagnosable mental disorder. When we do that, we are indulging in conduct that professionals (like Dr. Ramsland, who hasn't made any public comment) would consider unethical.

Further, assuming for the sake of argument that BK suffers from a mental disorder, no one has offered an explanation why he acted so differently from the millions of others who suffer the same disorder. Mental illness is, IMO, a rabbit hole that offers neither explanation nor comfort to those who seek to understand this event.

We like to believe we are mentally healthy and therefore would never stalk and kill four strangers as BK has been charged with doing. We seek gain some psychological distance from the accused in this way. IMO, it's a form of whistling in the dark.

It's scary to contemplate the possibility that evil is in each of us, and that we might actually be capable of killing our fellow humans. But maybe we should. It might cause us to give more attention to the importance of the fundamental personal, community, and societal guardrails that keep most of us from choosing to descend into evil in response to the personal suffering everyone encounters in life.

Even assuming that BK suffers some mental condition, IMO it is incumbent on a community committed to justice in this case to assess whether it is relevant to the charges he faces. Here's what Idaho law says about this:

"Idaho Statutes Section 18-207. MENTAL CONDITION NOT A DEFENSE — PROVISION FOR TREATMENT DURING INCARCERATION — RECEPTION OF EVIDENCE — NOTICE AND APPOINTMENT OF EXPERT EXAMINERS.

(1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct.
...
(3) Nothing herein is intended to prevent the admission of expert evidence on the issue of any state of mind which is an element of the offense, subject to the rules of evidence.

..."

So, I invite those who are inclined to dwell upon BK's mental condition to tell us what relevance this discussion has to BK's guilt or innocence in the deaths of the University of Idaho students.

THANK YOU!! The DSM even has a disclaimer that specifically says it should NOT be used in this way. People like to cling to a mental illness cause for anything they don't understand and all it does is feed the stigma.

 

[CityKid]

Yes the fact that his car was in line at the drive through but he didn’t purchase anything is quite interesting IMO

No evidence or claim that he was in line. This is from the affidavit, BBM:
"At approximately 12:36 p.m., the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that would provide coverage to Kate's Cup of Joe coffee stand located at 810 Port Drive, Clarkston, WA. Surveillance footage from the US Chef's Store located at 820 PortDrive, Clarkston, WA and adjacent to Kate's Cup of Joe showed a white Elantra, consistent with Suspect Vehicle 1, drive past Kate's Cup of Joe at a time consistent with the cellular data from the 8548 Phone."

 

[ktm44]

Unlikely. One stab in the lungs or another vital organ was easier to accomplish. Hitting someone (even a sleeping someone) would be riskier for a number of reasons - no guarantee of incapacitation for one.

These victims were in the place where they should be safest, varying levels of alcohol consumption, sleeping or relaxing. The fight put up by Xana was no match for a strong guy with a knife.

He was a creeper. He is tall & strong. Only one victim (EC) could have fought back with any effectiveness & never got the chance.

I find it puzzling that some think that means other than surprise & a knife would be needed.

It was quick & deadly. He had the best weapon for this kind of crime. He didn't need anything else to ensure success, including an accomplice.

My opinion only.

I also find it puzzling as well. I am familiar with the knife but I don’t think people realize that the blade alone is 7” and with that kind of depth, there is catastrophic damage.

I do wonder if the different manner of attacks had more to do with technique or circumstances than individual targets.

 

[meticulously]

After someone asked what SG was talking about when he said that BK's phone "touched" their wifi" I myself posted the proposition that routers do, or at least could be set to, log that data. After I posted that, someone asked me if I know of any routers that actually do this.

That led me on a mission of discovery. First, I checked all my own router logs. They definitely record any attempts to log in, but there is nothing about all the phones that pass within range but never try. Then I set about trying to find if there is a setting to enable such a thing. There is not. Then I started searching the internet for information on the subject. I was never able to find any model of consumer modem/router that has that capability.

I welcome others to try.

hey layer, many days ago, I posted about that, you replied a few times, at that time nobody else knew the answers.
I posted a YouTube video that showed more of the actual interview of SG mention it. but the video was deleted- didn't get permission first to post it. since then kept quiet (having realised I broke the rules) but really the video was worthy and would have been allowed had written to the moderator.
anyways I'm hoping to find out more about this wifi now, there's some good explanations so far, thanks sleuths

 

[Walela]

From my understanding their are some privacy issues with a router.
(1) You can move into a house and never change the password and so previous residents could possibly have privy to your information.
(2) If you have large amounts of traffic in your residence someone could potentially change your passcode w/o your knowledge and thus be privy to
information within your home.
(3) Persons with nefarious intentions that have IT knowledge can adjust your router and can possibly obtain information from within your residence by just being in close proximity.
(4) Many people are very unknowing about this or apathetic.

Basic things you should do to secure your router.

Change the default name and password of your home network.
Limit access to your wireless network
Create a home guest network (profile)
Turn on Wi-Fi network encryption
Turn on your router firewall
Turn off your Wi-Fi network when you leave home
Update your router's firmware
Switch to a WPA3 router
Disable remote access
Place your router in the middle of your home (or at least away from windows)

moo

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The DSM entries. The one I'm thinking of would be an interesting discussion, but most all of them have a lot of interesting research related to them. For example, on impulsiveness or compulsions, etc. I'm just trying to show how that can be helpful in understanding a killer's behavior. Their behavior usually seems foreign to us because they are usually abnormal.

You are misusing and misunderstanding the DSM.

 

[di anna]

Basic things you should do to secure your router.

Change the default name and password of your home network.
Limit access to your wireless network
Create a home guest network (profile)
Turn on Wi-Fi network encryption
Turn on your router firewall
Turn off your Wi-Fi network when you leave home
Update your router's firmware
Switch to a WPA3 router
Disable remote access
Place your router in the middle of your home (or at least away from windows)

moo

Thank you so much!

 

[jepop]

I have said this before in various forms, but in light of the ongoing discussion of BK's mental condition I feel it bears repeating.

I am skeptical of the proposition that BK was "mentally ill", and assuming he is, that this would explain his actions and be somehow relevant to his defense.

If you examine the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5-TR), you'll find yourself and most if not all your friends there. The DSM is designed to help trained and experienced professionals diagnose and treat their patients, not to help armchair psychologists to speculate about the possibility that a thrill/spree/mass murder suspect has a diagnosable mental disorder. When we do that, we are indulging in conduct that professionals (like Dr. Ramsland, who hasn't made any public comment) would consider unethical.

Further, assuming for the sake of argument that BK suffers from a mental disorder, no one has offered an explanation why he acted so differently from the millions of others who suffer the same disorder. Mental illness is, IMO, a rabbit hole that offers neither explanation nor comfort to those who seek to understand this event.

We like to believe we are mentally healthy and therefore would never stalk and kill four strangers as BK has been charged with doing. We seek gain some psychological distance from the accused in this way. IMO, it's a form of whistling in the dark.

It's scary to contemplate the possibility that evil is in each of us, and that we might actually be capable of killing our fellow humans. But maybe we should. It might cause us to give more attention to the importance of the fundamental personal, community, and societal guardrails that keep most of us from choosing to descend into evil in response to the personal suffering everyone encounters in life.

Even assuming that BK suffers some mental condition, IMO it is incumbent on a community committed to justice in this case to assess whether it is relevant to the charges he faces. Here's what Idaho law says about this:

"Idaho Statutes Section 18-207. MENTAL CONDITION NOT A DEFENSE — PROVISION FOR TREATMENT DURING INCARCERATION — RECEPTION OF EVIDENCE — NOTICE AND APPOINTMENT OF EXPERT EXAMINERS.

(1) Mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct.
...
(3) Nothing herein is intended to prevent the admission of expert evidence on the issue of any state of mind which is an element of the offense, subject to the rules of evidence.

..."

So, I invite those who are inclined to dwell upon BK's mental condition to tell us what relevance this discussion has to BK's guilt or innocence in the deaths of the University of Idaho students.

Thank you and agree. I am no fan of armchair diagnosis!

 

[Crashman]

A poster who lives in the area mentioned Moscow Food Co-Op is very popular with vegans. The vegan options in Pullman may be more limited. Moscow Food Co-Op is downtown but looking at their website there is another branch on the University of Idaho campus on the junction of Elm Street and University Avenue. According to Google Maps, King Road is a 10-minute walk or three-minute drive from there. If he did go there for the vegan food, perhaps he noticed the house driving or walking around the area one day or saw one of the housemates on campus and followed them home. Anyway he could have visited Moscow for any number of reasons but that food place is close to lots of student housing.

Co-op on Campus — Moscow Food Co-op

proudly serving the University of Idaho Co-op on Campus

www.moscowfood.coop

Does anyone know if any of the roommates might have been vegan?

 

[Sleuth2010]

Put the pure evil coward in a prison yard with the other inmates.

Want to see the evil coward feel the same kind of terror that Xana felt in her final moments of life...

The word evil and coward, and coward again is accurate. In the dark, taking another person's life, is super coward. If the killer wanted to kill... take his own wrist. For the Idaho4, in the solace of one's bed, to be attacked by the killer and having to decipher what was going on, unimaginable. Now to make parents, friends, teachers, neighbors, siblings... even the delivery guy or bartender - - - shedding tears and responding to evil. Killers are insane, cross-wired, cowards. This killer needs to understand the sorrow and misery that death brings. IMO MOO JMO LMNOP

 

[Boodles]

This is surely obvious, but it just occurred to me. This might mean he ditched his phone. So he was probably conscious that the phone could be tracked, even though he turned it off around the time and location of the murders. I'm glad he lacked the foresight to just leave it at home. MOO

Edit - it would be interesting to know if anyone noticed him having a new phone number following the murder.

If he got a new mobile phone, ditching the old one, LE would likely be able to find out and see where he was pinging afterward, unless he replaced his 8458 AT&T phone with a prepaid one. You have to provide your SSN to mobile carriers. They’d probably be able to find it that way. IMO

 

[r3d-ros3]

This is surely obvious, but it just occurred to me. This might mean he ditched his phone. So he was probably conscious that the phone could be tracked, even though he turned it off around the time and location of the murders. I'm glad he lacked the foresight to just leave it at home. MOO

Edit - it would be interesting to know if anyone noticed him having a new phone number following the murder.

I actually hadn't thought of this! Definitely possible. IMO, since the PCA explicitly mentions that phone not connecting to towers in Moscow after Nov. 14th, they might also have mentioned that the number or account was disconnected if that ends up being true? Maybe? IMO.

And regarding not turning the phone off -- another interesting thing, at least to me, about BK's decisions regarding his phone is in fact the decision to take it with him and turn it off. Of course, he could have left it at home -- that would have been smarter -- but by turning his phone off, he was not part of the collection of phones using cellular data in the area during the murder. The PCA mentions that LE checked this, and had they not zeroed in on BK through other means (his vehicle, DNA), his turned off phone could have actually worked in his favor. ALL IMO, and I doubt I am articulating this very well. From the PCA:

To clarify, the PCA immediately follows up this statement with an explanation of why BK's phone might have been turned off and the additional evidence that traces his movements the night of the murders.

 

[drmrgrl]

Do we know for sure that he was in PA when he got a new phone plan on June 23? Because he could have done that from anywhere in the U.S., using his PA address when he subscribed to his new phone provider.

IMO, did he keep his PA phone number when he moved to WA? Did he get the new number in WA? Actually, this is important. Did BK have PA phone number or WA phone number?

 

[jepop]

This is surely obvious, but it just occurred to me. This might mean he ditched his phone. So he was probably conscious that the phone could be tracked, even though he turned it off around the time and location of the murders. I'm glad he lacked the foresight to just leave it at home. MOO

Edit - it would be interesting to know if anyone noticed him having a new phone number following the murder.

According to the PCA he had the same phone number from June 2022 up until his arrest on December 31 2022? And LE put a Pen report/track and trace on the number as soon as warrant came through (December 23rd from memory).

ps://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

 

[insearchoflight]

I feel very strongly that if it was a KA-BAR, mask, gloves, or even bleach it would have been in the PCA.

Not necessarily. The Albertsons trip was after the murders. I’m confident they know by now what he purchased. That info is icing on the cake for a trial if needed. Wasn’t needed for pca. Moo

 

[drmrgrl]

SBMFF

1.1 - Perhaps he didn't know the red jeep was Xana's BFs. This was a party house where a lot of drinking occurs. Just a guess on my part but I can imagine there'd be a fair amount of times when someone drank too much and got a ride home from someone at the party who was less drunk. Or at least I'd like to think they'd be thoughtful enough to do that. They'd then come back to pick their car up the next day. JMO.

Excellent and very thoughtful post, by the way.

IMO, because BKs beef was with Ethan.