ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[RonSwanson33]

Listen folks...I know many people feel they "know" that BCK committed these heinous murders and frankly so do I. My point to all of my above posts and arguments is, as what we know right now, its not a "slam dunk" and a good defense attorney can find reasonable with ALL of it and it only takes one juror to see that...one out of twelve.
So before I get lynched here...all I wanted to show is what could be argued and Im far from a well experienced defense attorney with a laundry list of "experts" to bring to the table so expect a good fight by Taylor, this is not her first rodeo
I just hope that there is much more very incriminating evidence that they have that will make this a slam dunk conviction

Again, we have not seen the 3000 additional pages of discovery. LE did not mess this up. They have the correct guy. IMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Well in reality it was just a white Elantra (without a readable license plate) that was in the area of the house... no proof it was BCK's Elantra. Nor does his phone put him "there"

It puts him there months before, and the morning after. The car led them to him. So I couldn’t possibly disagree more.

If any of the social media connections and restaurant connections are true, this case is the definition of a slam dunk. I’d argue it already is.

 

[RonSwanson33]

I certainly agree with that Boxer...however, I would argue that since it was on an object there is no proof that the object was brought into the house by BCK. IMO

not just any object. the sheath of the murder weapon. IMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I certainly agree with that Boxer...however, I would argue that since it was on an object there is no proof that the object was brought into the house by BCK. IMO

The PCA said there was a single source of DNA on the button of the sheath. If handled by another person, wouldn‘t their DNA have been found on there?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It probably was an unverified source, but it may have not been a mistaken narrative. The FBI denied it, but I suppose they aren’t going to tell us everything. I’m of the mind that if the FBI says they aren’t doing something, that means they probably are.

jmo

IMO, the point isn't whether or not it's true in this particular discussion. We can debate that too, but in this case, we're just talking about inconsistencies. JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

The PCA said there was a single source of DNA on the button of the sheath. If handled by another person, wouldn‘t their DNA have been found on there?

One person’s DNA was on there. One person was driving a matching car, and had traveled to the scene multiple times. One person’s phone was off during the hours in question. One person was found thousands of miles away, spotted taking trash out in the dead of night, while wearing gloves, and dumping it in the neighbor’s trash can. One person scrubbed his car clean while the FBI watched.

I’m confident the DNA of multiple victims will be found in his car; you can’t get it all.

So much more is coming.

 

[SophieRose]

I guess the house has been released back to the owner.

Crime scene at Moscow home to be preserved until February

The pause comes after the suspect's public defender Anne Taylor filed a motion to preserve the crime scene and evidence.

www.krem.com

The King Road home in Moscow where four University of Idaho students were murdered will remain a preserved crime scene until at least Feb. 1, according to newly released court documents.
The pause comes after the suspect's public defender Anne Taylor filed a motion to preserve the crime scene and evidence.

 

[kellala]

Read the previous small stream of quotes.

DNA on a sheath doesn't put him inside the house, its actually a sheath with his DNA on it, inside the house. Something like his DNA on a doorknob or on mixed in the victims blood would put him inside the house... AISI

It is like saying Scott Peterson did not kill his wife as nobody sees

Read the previous small stream of quotes.

DNA on a sheath doesn't put him inside the house, its actually a sheath with his DNA on it, inside the house. Something like his DNA on a doorknob or on mixed in the victims blood would put him inside the house... AISI

Scott Peterson kind of vibe? Nobody saw him kill his wife, no body SMSA’s him dump his wife, he just happened to fish there at the awkward time?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Idaho murders: How does criminology student leave crime scene with blood-dripping knife?

The Ka-Bar knife sheath found next to Madison Mogen's body at the Moscow, Idaho, crime scene could have been left intentionally in a bid to mislead police.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Kemug]

I know lots of people can't grasp why DM called friends before police, this case here in the UK with the headteacher killed by her husband, she rang her sister 7 minutes before she was shot. She never rang the police and she was obviously a grown adult. I think in a fear moment it's just impossible to act rationally that those who have the benefit of hindsight have

I have an old lady friend whose husband died 3 years ago. He was having a heart attack in their home. But instead of calling for an ambulance, she rang her son who lived 6 hours away. I presume the son told her to ring for an ambulance, but she just didn't, and so an ambulance wasn't called until the son arrived, and did it himself. The husband actually died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. So maybe he could have lived. On the other hand, he was 95. And as far as I know, the lady was never chastised for her lack of action. She was obviously paralysed by shock.

 

[RonSwanson33]

Idaho murders: How does criminology student leave crime scene with blood-dripping knife?

The Ka-Bar knife sheath found next to Madison Mogen's body at the Moscow, Idaho, crime scene could have been left intentionally in a bid to mislead police.

www.foxnews.com

It didn't work obviously.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Opinion:

But the Indiana LE were not the same LE as in Idaho.

So now we have a picture of various "inconsistencies" from various, unrelated LE agencies. That, to me is normal. Inconsistencies are normal and rarely pose any problems in court (because raising them can damage the defense as much as the prosecution - in many cases, moreso). I think this is one of those cases.

Your argument seems to be that LE is inconsistent, rather than that "all human investigations are inconsistent, so we should expect inconsistencies." I think the consistency argument gets weaker every year, as more and more jurors understand what investigations are like - with help from the various attorneys involved. It becomes a matter of ordinary reason and common sense. If every LE agency across the US is "inconsistent," then what do we do about law enforcement and murder?

It's up to the jury to decide (and they do).

The early inconsistencies are all explainable and very unlikely to come up at the actual trial, as the defense doesn't want cans of worms. The Coroner alone is responsible for about half of these inconsistencies, and the vagaries of investigation for the other - as we're seeing in the Murdaugh trial. Inconsistencies abound, but the jury has to sort them out. "Crime of passion" vs "LE receives information in a particular order, gradually getting a full picture..." well, I don't think the jury will ever hear the phrase 'Crime of passion' or "targeted" in this entire trial. I don't know why they would.

Do you think that the defense will bring those things up? I don't. It will just make their situation far, far worse. They need to stay away from any of that rhetor.

IMO, IME.

It's behind us. The strategies for bringing someone to the court of justice are quite different (fortunately) from those involved in convicting them. The defense doesn't want to give any hint that BK could have committed a crime of passion - and if they choose to introduce that notion, I think his goose is cooked, because the prosecution has its own strategy for turning that around on him.

IOW, LE is not going to be harangued at trial; it's all about whether BK is guilty. At trial, IMO.

I do understand that some people are still caught up in the first couple of weeks of what people in Moscow said - but it's not going to look consistent to a jury. IMO.

Although it would be very interesting to call the coroner to the stand and let both sides have at her (if that's what happens). The medical examiners (from Spokane) will then be called and I am pretty sure the Coroner's "inconsistent" phrasing will go down the drain. But I don't fault her or the 'crime of passion' mayor, either. Most of us understand what it's like in the first days of a major crime (we just imagine it if we haven't been through it).

IMO.

The Pike County massacre trial is a case study in how well prosecutors and law enforcement handle a case in which early media speculation was about a Mexican cartel hit or cockfighting or some fight over a demolition derby. Then there was suspicion of other family members. It took two years to get an arrest of the guilty parties. It's worth looking at transcripts to see how LE unpacked the investigation to show how they eliminated the distractors to solve the case and set up successful prosecutions.

What the defense has to counter at trial is not the opinions of people like a local mayor or the public statements by law enforcement, which may be intended to manipulate or confuse the perpetrator, but the actual evidence that the prosecution puts forward. The defense needs an alibi or explanations for (in this case) why his car or phone is at or near the murder scene.

 

[Boxer]

I certainly agree with that Boxer...however, I would argue that since it was on an object there is no proof that the object was brought into the house by BCK. IMO

His DNA on the cover of a fighting knife.
Similar to finding DNA on a holster that is fitted to the type of gun used to murder at the scene next to a victim of murder.
Or like a pill case that held poison capsules of the type that killed the victim.
MOO I think even more incriminating than a doorknob.

 

[MassGuy]

It didn't work obviously.

I don’t believe this for a second. I think he killed the first victims, and then moved on to the next while forgetting the sheath. I just don’t get the logic of leaving evidence behind, even if you think it’s clean and can’t hurt you. It told them the brand of murder weapon.

I swear. It seems like people leave law enforcement and then immediately lose their minds.

 

[TooMuchGun]

His DNA on the cover of a fighting knife.
Similar to finding DNA on a holster that is fitted to the type of gun used to murder at the scene next to a crime.

we don’t know w complete certainty a Kabar was used. If the knife proves to be different this could be reasonable doubt. I do think the state will have much more evidence than what's been provided in the PCA.

 

[steeltowngirl]

It didn't work obviously.

The ‘smart” criminal was a dumb*zz and left his dna on the sheath. I can’t see that being explained away.

 

[MassGuy]

we don’t know w complete certainty a Kabar was used. If the knife proves to be different this could be reasonable doubt. I do think the state will have much more evidence than what's been provided in the PCA.

I’ve never, not once, followed a case where the state didn’t have quite a bit more than what was in the PCA. Almost always the testing isn’t remotely close to being done, and the provable cause hearing provides a ton more evidence. Even then, the testing doesn’t tend to be done though.

 

[jepop]

IMO, the PCA and the evidence of probable cause in it, wasn't intended to be enough to convict. It was intended to show probable cause. It's fine to keep pointing out the PCA isn't enough to convict, but there cannot be a conviction at this stage. It's the evidence to be presented at trial by the prosecution, which IMO will build on the PCA and any other unknowns atm, that will seek to convict. MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I don’t believe this for a second. I think he killed the first victims, and then moved on to the next while forgetting the sheath. I just don’t get the logic of leaving evidence behind, even if you think it’s clean and can’t hurt you. It told them the brand of murder weapon.

I swear. It seems like people leave law enforcement and then immediately lose their minds.

And even in the unlikely event he was so warped he DID leave it intentionally, he was still there, murdering the students.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I don't expect my DNA inside of any complete strangers' house. On a door knob, on a sheath, on a toilet, in a shower. Anywhere.

All those other things you mentioned are organic to the house. The sheath is not. So I agree, your DNA shouldn't be expected on the door knob, a toilet, or a shower in a stranger's house. JMO.