ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[hopewell]

The coroner hasn't commented on X as far as I have seen. The most that was said is the victims were "likely asleep" when attacked. Do you have a source for the coroner saying anything contrary to X's father?

The coroner and the official statement said that some victims have defensive wounds, but that all were likely asleep when attacked/killed. That is my source. Both the official statement and the coroner's remarks would be contrary to someone who fought consciously and fiercely for their life. Someone who is likely asleep would be neither conscious nor a fierce fighter. That is my deduction.

Again, the father is grieving, so it makes sense that he would feel that way about his daughter. We want things like that to be true. I would too.

 

[TL4S]

Makes sense that he would attack E first to subdue the male (stronger) first. That could explain why X had defensive wounds. She woke up during the attack on E. MOO

I've always thought so, too, but if E was killed first, IMO that suggests that the killer knew who was in the home that night (and likely which room everyone was in). JMO.

 

[mickey2942]

When I was 20, my BF basically lived in my apartment. He had his own place on campus. He was never there. Our parents didn't really "know" this.

 

[Terry McRae]

Is it possible that this indeed was a targeted revenge attack related to a very bad situation related to a family member or other close relationship like a boyfriend? Instead of killing that person, the perp went after someone close to them? A revenge attack?

 

[tayaway]

I've found one small discrepancy.

Xana's dad says Ethan and Xana were living together:

“Her and Ethan were together about a year, give or take. And she, really, when I went up there she, I saw her just a week before that and she changed a lot. She had a life. She got to see what it was like to have a boyfriend you live with. And she really turned around. She was really responsible. Helping him out with his studies and stuff. I was really impressed,” he said."

Then this says Ethan and Xana didn't live together:

"Mogen and Goncalves, both 21 and friends since 6th grade, were last seen at a downtown bar and a food truck outside, before returning home at 1:45am.

The other two, Xana Kernodle, 20, and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin - who did not live at the house - were at a party on campus on Saturday night."


Ethan was a freshman:
"Ethan Chapin was raised in Conway, Washington. He was a freshman student majoring in recreation, sport and tourism management."

Okay...
So maybe no big deal. Maybe they said Ethan wasn't living with Xana because freshmen are required to live in campus housing. Maybe Xana's dad said they lived together because they spent every minute they could together.

OR: was Ethan staying overnight with Xana because they were worried about her being alone? All speculation on my part based on one small discrepancy.

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

The father is now struggling to understand how this could have happened.

www.azfamily.com

Four Idaho students murdered may have been too shocked to scream

Moscow police believe victims Kaylee Goncalvez, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Ethan Chapin, 20, and Xana Kernodle, 20, were stabbed to death at their home near campus between 3am and 4am.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Skagit County man among those killed in University of Idaho murders

Those who knew 20-year-old Ethan Chapin say he was always upbeat and always motivated, especially when it came to playing basketball.

www.kiro7.com

Housing and dining | University of Idaho

Explore U of I’s student housing and dining options. Find residence halls, dorms, apartments, meal plans and campus dining locations to suit your needs.

www.uidaho.edu

MOO: Maybe he was over there so much, he might as well have lived there? As in, he practically lived there, so her father just called it that? eta: Whoops, @mickey2942 explained it much better than I did. E had his own residence, but it sounds like he was never there.

 

[Lovecats]

Also.....this is EXACTLY what I referred to in my last posted theory. Police changed X and E timeline to being at party til 9p and not returning home until 130a. That's 4.5 hours unaccounted for. There is no way that they possibly have 0 idea where the two were. There is no way they wouldn't post their whereabouts unless it was pertinent to the investigation. Something smells fishy

Forgive me if this has already if this has already been discussed; I’m trying to catch up on the threads.
I read in an article (trying to find now) that E’s parents said the night of the murders, E and his siblings were at D’s sister’s sorority dance. E was his sister’s date, and his brother was his sisters’ friend’s date. It’s possible X and E were at his fraternity party from 8-9 pm like is stated in reports, and then they parted ways for him to go to his sister’s sorority dance. That would maybe explain the lost time between 9 pm and 1:45 am. Perhaps the parents let that slip and shouldn’t have, since investigators haven’t divulged that info.

 

[TL4S]

I've found one small discrepancy.

Xana's dad says Ethan and Xana were living together:

“Her and Ethan were together about a year, give or take. And she, really, when I went up there she, I saw her just a week before that and she changed a lot. She had a life. She got to see what it was like to have a boyfriend you live with. And she really turned around. She was really responsible. Helping him out with his studies and stuff. I was really impressed,” he said."

Then this says Ethan and Xana didn't live together:

"Mogen and Goncalves, both 21 and friends since 6th grade, were last seen at a downtown bar and a food truck outside, before returning home at 1:45am.

The other two, Xana Kernodle, 20, and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin - who did not live at the house - were at a party on campus on Saturday night."


Ethan was a freshman:
"Ethan Chapin was raised in Conway, Washington. He was a freshman student majoring in recreation, sport and tourism management."

Okay...
So maybe no big deal. Maybe they said Ethan wasn't living with Xana because freshmen are required to live in campus housing. Maybe Xana's dad said they lived together because they spent every minute they could together.

OR: was Ethan staying overnight with Xana because they were worried about her being alone? All speculation on my part based on one small discrepancy.

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

The father is now struggling to understand how this could have happened.

www.azfamily.com

Four Idaho students murdered may have been too shocked to scream

Moscow police believe victims Kaylee Goncalvez, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Ethan Chapin, 20, and Xana Kernodle, 20, were stabbed to death at their home near campus between 3am and 4am.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Skagit County man among those killed in University of Idaho murders

Those who knew 20-year-old Ethan Chapin say he was always upbeat and always motivated, especially when it came to playing basketball.

www.kiro7.com

Housing and dining | University of Idaho

Explore U of I’s student housing and dining options. Find residence halls, dorms, apartments, meal plans and campus dining locations to suit your needs.

www.uidaho.edu

Maybe they lived together over the summer? Hadn't they been together for a year?

 

[Normancita]

Yes. People even sleeping next to their spouse can sneak out, much less if it’s a roommate in their own room who could leave unnoticed at that time of night. Also, if the killer lives alone, how do you substantiate you were sleeping? That gets to digital data.

Let’s just pretend for argument’s sake that the killer was clever enough to leave his phone and smart watch at home while he snuck out to commit the murders.

If LE has an idea who the suspect could be, and if they think he drove a vehicle to commit the murders, would they be able to get information from some thing like OnStar to detect his movements using GPS?

Is OnStar not matching someone’s alibi?

 

[Lovecats]

Forgive me if this has already if this has already been discussed; I’m trying to catch up on the threads.
I read in an article (trying to find now) that E’s parents said the night of the murders, E and his siblings were at D’s sister’s sorority dance. E was his sister’s date, and his brother was his sisters’ friend’s date. It’s possible X and E were at his fraternity party from 8-9 pm like is stated in reports, and then they parted ways for him to go to his sister’s sorority dance. That would maybe explain the lost time between 9 pm and 1:45 am. Perhaps the parents let that slip and shouldn’t have, since investigators haven’t divulged that info.

Sorry I meant E’s sister’s sorority dance, not D’s

 

[Leve]

The fact that they were likely asleep has not been amended. The only thing amended is a clarification that they were not necessarily in their beds when attacked/killed. The coroner does say that some have defensive wounds, but if they were likely asleep those were probably instinctive and even involuntary. Even if they stirred to consciousness somehow during the attack, it would have been brief and not likely long enough to realize what was going on.

My opinion.

Post in thread 'ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13' ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

I posted yesterday. The coroner did say X had defensive wounds on her hands. I do agree she probably didn't "fight back" in any way.

This case is frustrating because the news sources have been so incredibly inaccurate. So it's hard to believe half of what you read.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Do you think he's referring to LE? I remember an official saying he was concerned for the investigators having to deal with this.

That is possible too I suppose.

 

[Sundog]

dbm duplicate post

 

[r3d-ros3]

I've found one small discrepancy.

Xana's dad says Ethan and Xana were living together:

“Her and Ethan were together about a year, give or take. And she, really, when I went up there she, I saw her just a week before that and she changed a lot. She had a life. She got to see what it was like to have a boyfriend you live with. And she really turned around. She was really responsible. Helping him out with his studies and stuff. I was really impressed,” he said."

Then this says Ethan and Xana didn't live together:

"Mogen and Goncalves, both 21 and friends since 6th grade, were last seen at a downtown bar and a food truck outside, before returning home at 1:45am.

The other two, Xana Kernodle, 20, and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin - who did not live at the house - were at a party on campus on Saturday night."

Could just be an acknowledgement that she was in a serious relationship with more freedom, meaning spending the night with each other ("living together") - JMO. Still, though, it's interesting to me that there is so much emphasis on X "turning things around" and perhaps it was important that she was not alone, as you suggest. I agree with other posters that X could have been the targeted individual for reasons currently unknown.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Maybe they lived together over the summer? Hadn't they been together for a year?

Right. It's really not suprising that a couple has sleep overs. As I say, it's a small discrepancy. Thanks!

 

[Sundog]

Per this, his mother said he spent his last day at the formal. Doesn't say whether the formal was during the day or the evening.

Slain Idaho students leave behind bright memories, big goals

The four University of Idaho students who were stabbed to death near campus last weekend were more than just college students and crime victims.

apnews.com

It says that the triplets spent their last day together, I read this as that was a special occasion for their last time spent together. Not that they were necessarily together on E's last day alive. Maybe there is other information online that clarifies this that I haven't seen or have forgotten.

 

[Lovecats]

A 911 operator is going to report "unconscious" regardless because that is all the information that was definitively known at the time. The person wasn't responding. They were at a minimum unconscious. The 911 caller could have said 'not responding and there is blood everywhere! I think they are dead!" and the 911 operator would have still relayed "unconscious person or persons" to EMS and/or authorities.

My opinion.

Good point. We don’t know exactly what was said in the 911 call because it was never released. So they very well could have mentioned blood. However, if there was that much blood, I don’t understand calling friends first. Makes no sense.

 

[CityKid]

I've found one small discrepancy.

Xana's dad says Ethan and Xana were living together:

“Her and Ethan were together about a year, give or take. And she, really, when I went up there she, I saw her just a week before that and she changed a lot. She had a life. She got to see what it was like to have a boyfriend you live with. And she really turned around. She was really responsible. Helping him out with his studies and stuff. I was really impressed,” he said."

Then this says Ethan and Xana didn't live together:

"Mogen and Goncalves, both 21 and friends since 6th grade, were last seen at a downtown bar and a food truck outside, before returning home at 1:45am.

The other two, Xana Kernodle, 20, and her boyfriend Ethan Chapin - who did not live at the house - were at a party on campus on Saturday night."


Ethan was a freshman:
"Ethan Chapin was raised in Conway, Washington. He was a freshman student majoring in recreation, sport and tourism management."

Okay...
So maybe no big deal. Maybe they said Ethan wasn't living with Xana because freshmen are required to live in campus housing. Maybe Xana's dad said they lived together because they spent every minute they could together.

OR: was Ethan staying overnight with Xana because they were worried about her being alone? All speculation on my part based on one small discrepancy.

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

The father is now struggling to understand how this could have happened.

www.azfamily.com

Four Idaho students murdered may have been too shocked to scream

Moscow police believe victims Kaylee Goncalvez, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Ethan Chapin, 20, and Xana Kernodle, 20, were stabbed to death at their home near campus between 3am and 4am.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Skagit County man among those killed in University of Idaho murders

Those who knew 20-year-old Ethan Chapin say he was always upbeat and always motivated, especially when it came to playing basketball.

www.kiro7.com

Housing and dining | University of Idaho

Explore U of I’s student housing and dining options. Find residence halls, dorms, apartments, meal plans and campus dining locations to suit your needs.

www.uidaho.edu

I think a grieving father may have conflated "she had defensive wounds" with "she fought for her life" so I'm not comfortable going along with his account of any living arrangements. MOO.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Idaho Murders: What We Know

Bryan Kohberger, who was studying criminology at another university nearby, faces trial later this year in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students.

www.nytimes.com

This is from yesterday's NYT. BBM. The story includes a line (I think I can't quote it because it's behind a firewall and I don't want to violate WS rules) about the survivors calling their friends to come over because they thought one of the women living upstairs had passed out. I know speculation had been that E was the one visible from the bottom floor, and this was the first time I saw a reference to a woman. It was not in quote marks and there is no attribution as to the source of this info.

I believe the person that was targeted was X. She would be “a woman who was living upstairs.”

Yesterday on the Twitter spaces hosted by Brian Entin and Jennifer Coffindoffer, the former FBI agent said she has heard rumors on the ground in Idaho that at least one of the bodies was mutilated. She said specifically how, but I won’t repeat that here, since it is a rumor, and is disturbing.

However, since we know X had defensive wounds, and therefore woke up, my suspicion is that she is the one who was out of bed. I’m guessing she was either blocking the door from being opened, or was hanging off the bed.

If you look at the floor plan, the bed in her bedroom would most likely be placed against the wall where the blood was dripping down the foundation of the home’s exterior. If her body was mutilated in such a way that a large amount of blood would leave the body, and was hanging off the bed, gravity would empty the body of blood, enough to soak through the seam between the floor boards, drywall and mounding, and then would run off of the subfloor and out of the house. Nearly 2 gallons of blood could definitely cause a few drips to leak out.

I also don’t understand why you would even want to mess with the only man in the house unless X was the target.

There is a reason that their timeline that evening is squishy. We just don’t know what that reason is.

I’ve just been thinking about all the pieces, and trying to put them together. To me, it makes sense that X was the one targeted.

 

[hopewell]

Good point. We don’t know exactly what was said in the 911 call because it was never released. So they very well could have mentioned blood. However, if there was that much blood, I don’t understand calling friends first. Makes no sense.

Did LE say that friends were called first or just that friends were ultimately called? Because if the latter, I can certainly understand young people blowing up their friends' phones after the fact.

My opinion.

 

[TL4S]

The coroner and the official statement said that some victims have defensive wounds, but that all were likely asleep when attacked/killed. That is my source. Both the official statement and the coroner's remarks would be contrary to someone who fought consciously and fiercely for their life. Someone who is likely asleep would be neither conscious nor a fierce fighter. That is my deduction.

Again, the father is grieving, so it makes sense that he would feel that way about his daughter. We want things like that to be true. I would too.

The coroner also said some, but not all the victims were murdered in their beds. I know that could be taken very literal in that E (and maybe not K) were in their own personal beds (because they didn't live there anymore), but I think it's just as likely this means not all the victims were in any bed.

My own take on the coroner's statement about everyone being asleep is that the house was quiet, everyone was in bed for the night, not up and about, and that when the attacks started, everyone was sleeping. However, I don't think the coroner's statement necessarily means some of the victims didn't wake up, get out of bed, and perhaps try to defend themselves at the moment they were attacked. I'd be willing to bet that the first victim was killed in bed, though.