isabella88
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If I lived there I would not feel safe but it's a slippery slope indeed for LE to start giving out info. Perhaps the community is not safe and for good reason. JMO
ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 17
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911 logs reveal sightings of ‘blood stains’ and knives’ in Idaho student murders town
The alarm and disquiet of Moscow residents has made itself known in a flood of reports about ‘suspicious’ noises or people
www.google.com
Emerald15
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Wonder what LE definition of “SLOPPY” is.
rsbm
my thoughts are that the 911 call has little or no importance in the case, and that the discussion has been overly extensive.
isabella88
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IIRC, it was Kaylee's family that said the scene was sloppy. I haven't heard LE say it. But LE's definition of sloppy obviously doesn't mean easy-to-catch at this point. JMO
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Just because cases get solved in an hour on tv, that does not mean that they do in real life. Two weeks is hardly a long time to investigate a crime of this magnitude, and despite what we think we have a right to know, or what we want to know, LE owe us nothing, other than to let their community know if they feel they are in danger.
I am certain that LE know a LOT more than what they are sharing with the public, or the families, many of which have been perhaps far too willing to talk to reporters. I do believe this week will be pivotal in the investigation, and would not be surprised to see an arrest, or at least a statement that LE have a POI they are pursuing, within the next few days. Felony Friday is coming. JMO
Valid points. The unfortunate reality is that police have to keep some things from the public for the good of the case. It's also perfectly understandable that people want to the police to corroborate things they say. Not saying it's the case here, but sometimes there really is no good solution.
I tend to take any second-hand information or even press conference info with a grain of salt. It's easy to misstate what someone else said, or choose unfortunate words that lead to more questions. Written statements are more trustworthy because (hopefully) more thought goes into the words / phrasing, and there is a review and editing process.
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IMO they have a suspect. They are waiting for testing to come back to make an arrest.So the neighbor says he is willing to give DNA and fingerprints, which signals that LE hasn't asked. Oversight or maybe they don't think he's involved in any way. JMO
Neighbor of butchered Idaho students DENIES he is their killer
Jeremy Reagan, a third-year law student who says he is 'socially awkward' has denied he is responsible for the deaths of four University of Idaho students in a series of interviews.www.dailymail.co.uk
It would be good if this crime were wrapped up by the end of this week.
isabella88
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I sure hope so!!
Good point, I don't think you can trust that you're safe. I mean... there's a maniac out there with a giant knife.
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Interview with Aaron Snell.
27th November.
Reporter - Sir, thanks so much for doing this interview with us. You're with the state police. We know the FBI is on the scene and then you have the local police. Who is running this investigation?.
Snell - Yeah, so the Moscow Police Department is running this investigation. When these homicides happened, pretty much, it was all hands on deck. As a team we're all working together for the same goal.
Reporter - Let's talk about some of the investigation. I don't want to compromise the investigation, but some of the critique or stuff circulating, is the crime scene. Are you confident, and you have law enforcement experience as well, that the integrity of the crime scene was not compromised in this investigation?.
Snell - I am confident that there wasn't a compromise with the integrity of the investigation. We know that the Moscow Police Department arrived on scene, they essentially saw what had occurred, they locked it down and then additional resources came in and we have a lot of the best of the best, the best technology, the latest and greatest as far as training goes. So indeed, I believe in the integrity of this investigation.
Reporter - You believe.. just to follow up quickly on the.. normal protocols were followed, witnesses separated, crime scene locked down, that you start off large then work in, smaller. When you guys decided to extend the tape a little bit - Was that because there was more information brought to the table?. What was your reasoning for doing that?.
Snell - Yes, so the other day we extended the crime scene. Really what we did is we just enlarged the working area for the detectives and the investigators that are actually on scene. As we have more and more information, we're able to try and piece together what occurred. When we do that, we want to go out to the scene and see how that fits in. And, so, it wasn't really an evidence collection situation, it was purely a workspace situation. You know, we wanted to make sure that we held the integrity of the investigation, which is important, and so we're not enlarging and retracting the crime scene per se.
Reporter - One follow up on that crime scene - What type of information, because the public, when you request information from... you're squaring that with some of the information that you guys have been able to collect from the scene, so, you got DNA - Has all that DNA been processed through the FBI lab?. Have you all been able to grab all the technology and all that information from - the servers, the Wi-Fi, all that stuff had that already been processed?.
Snell - We are continuing to ask for the public's help, especially for video surveillance. We believe that in many cases, what's not on a video is actually just as important as what is on a video. As far as all the evidence that's been collected, most of that actually, went to the Idaho State Police Crime lab where scientists are working. It's a high priority for this case and they've been working 24/7 to really turn around the evidence and provide that analytics...
Reporter - So, we're still going to be getting some more information from that information that they collected, that hasn't already all been, I mean, it's a big crime scene and they haven't processed all that information just yet?.
Snell - That's correct.
Reporter - All the subjects that were there, that means the people that came from the fraternity house, the witnesses there on the scene that were asleep during this, allegedly - Have they all been cleared from this investigation?.
Snell - What I can tell you is that the roommates that were there and the people that called 911, so that would be all the people that were in the house, detectives at this point time do not believe that any of them were involved. All of them have been cooperative and all of them have helped with the investigation.
Reporter - So, there's been a lot of talk about a dog being at the scene that may have been one of the victim's dog. My question is - Was the dog present in one of the rooms?, or, Was the dog just roaming somewhere in the house, do we know that just yet?.
Snell - Yeah, so to best of my knowledge, we do not know that. What we do know, indeed there was a dog at the residence. Once the officers came, the dog was taken to Animal Services where then a responsible person came and picked up the dog.
Reporter - Was the dog present for the crime?
Snell - So, I don't have that information and we're not sure.
Reporter - And where is the dog now?. Is the dog with the victim's ex-boyfriend?. Can you release that information?.
Snell - So, that's really not our information to release. We do know that the dog was taken to Animal Services and then a responsible person came and took the dog.
Reporter - Is the dog any part of the investigation at this point right now?.
Snell - I don't have that answer for you. I'm not sure.
Reporter - We've learned through some of the press conferences, as well as directly from some of the victims parents that there was a targeted subject there. One of the deceased victims was the target. Can you tell me who was targeted or were there multiple people that were targeted during that incident?.
Snell - So, that's actually a really difficult question and the reason why is because that would be pertinent to the investigation. I think what we have been very consistent in saying is that we believe that this was targeted. We have not come out and said it's targeted to one person or to multiple people. That's all part of that investigation that ultimately will come out. But just right now, it's pretty pertinent to our investigation.
Reporter - I've been following you guys timeline, and you update it as you guys get more information. Xana and Ethan, Mr. Chapin - I looked at the timeline, there's a missing block between 9:00 pm. and 1:45 am. Our team has tried to put together a map and kind of figure out if there is any sources or anything that can provide us that information. Have you been able to fill that part of the timeline in?, because that would probably be critical to you guys investigation, right?.
Snell - Yes, that would be very important and so, as detectives are about that's also what we're trying to do and so anybody that has information we would love to talk with them. We would love video ring camera, just anybody with thoughts and concerns about that. We want to talk to them. We want to make sure that we have a crystal clear picture of where the victims went, where they were that night.
Reporter - Is the fraternity house a part of the crime scene?.
Snell - As part of the crime scene, no, but they do... the people within the fraternity house would have pertinent information. Potentially they saw something out of the ordinary, maybe there were some interactions, those types of things. And so, anybody with that information we want to talk to.
Reporter - I don't want to get into the investigation, obviously, you have to protect that, but the theory of there being what people call a peeping tom - Is that still an option that someone was in the woods looking at these victims?. And if that is true, should the public still be concerned right now?, because that person is still out on the loose.
Snell - So, that's a two-part question. The first part of that question is essentially - Have we ruled anything out? and I can tell you, unequivocally, we have not. As we're gaining this picture of what occured, I think we're going to be able to, hopefully, ascertain kind of the facts of the case and potentially come up with some sort of idea. We do not want to get pigeonholed into anything because we feel that we would miss the other facts and right now since we don't have a specific direction in which to go, we don't want to miss the other facts. The second part of that question, I think, is more about the public safety and the public concern, fear in the community. We recognise there's fear in the community. Ultimately there is a person or persons that is in either our community or someone else's community who's committed four murders and so people need to be alert and aware.
Reporter - Obviously, you've got somebody that's on the loose, right now. There's a lot of fear with the public. Based on what you guys have been able to collect and you all have profilers on the team, the BAU unit is here, why not go ahead and release that profile?.
Snell - So, we don't currently have a suspect and so, as we build that picture, that information from BAU is going to be critical into trying to develop that. And so, if we just provide information to the public - I just don't think that's going to be a wise choice. It will potentially put more fear, more suspicion on a wide variety of people, versus if we use that to really refine where we're at in our investigation, I think that will be more pertinent.
Reporter - Based on the profile that BAU has been able to gather, and again, I understand this is crucial to your investigation, do you believe that the suspect has the ability to attack again?, or do you think this was an isolated incident, that he was specifically targeting individuals or an individual there at that house?.
Snell - So, I think we have to kind of go back to our, unfortunately, standard is that we believe this was a targeted incident.
Reporter - So, you don't think, based on the profile, this person or persons will attack again?.
Snell - I would hate to speculate on anything like that, say one way or the other. I think that you'd be doing a disservice to the community. So, ultimately, we know that there is somebody who is somebody, some people, right?. Ultimately, we know that there's a person or persons that is in a community somewhere that has committed four murders. I think it's important for the public to know that while they may not see a lot of activity in and out of the house, they may not hear about a lot of the different interviews that are occurring but we're making substantial progress. We have a lot of people working on this case and our ultimate resolutions that we would like to find a suspect, make an arrest and then go through the judicial process because that's what would be appropriate.
27th November.
Reporter - Sir, thanks so much for doing this interview with us. You're with the state police. We know the FBI is on the scene and then you have the local police. Who is running this investigation?.
Snell - Yeah, so the Moscow Police Department is running this investigation. When these homicides happened, pretty much, it was all hands on deck. As a team we're all working together for the same goal.
Reporter - Let's talk about some of the investigation. I don't want to compromise the investigation, but some of the critique or stuff circulating, is the crime scene. Are you confident, and you have law enforcement experience as well, that the integrity of the crime scene was not compromised in this investigation?.
Snell - I am confident that there wasn't a compromise with the integrity of the investigation. We know that the Moscow Police Department arrived on scene, they essentially saw what had occurred, they locked it down and then additional resources came in and we have a lot of the best of the best, the best technology, the latest and greatest as far as training goes. So indeed, I believe in the integrity of this investigation.
Reporter - You believe.. just to follow up quickly on the.. normal protocols were followed, witnesses separated, crime scene locked down, that you start off large then work in, smaller. When you guys decided to extend the tape a little bit - Was that because there was more information brought to the table?. What was your reasoning for doing that?.
Snell - Yes, so the other day we extended the crime scene. Really what we did is we just enlarged the working area for the detectives and the investigators that are actually on scene. As we have more and more information, we're able to try and piece together what occurred. When we do that, we want to go out to the scene and see how that fits in. And, so, it wasn't really an evidence collection situation, it was purely a workspace situation. You know, we wanted to make sure that we held the integrity of the investigation, which is important, and so we're not enlarging and retracting the crime scene per se.
Reporter - One follow up on that crime scene - What type of information, because the public, when you request information from... you're squaring that with some of the information that you guys have been able to collect from the scene, so, you got DNA - Has all that DNA been processed through the FBI lab?. Have you all been able to grab all the technology and all that information from - the servers, the Wi-Fi, all that stuff had that already been processed?.
Snell - We are continuing to ask for the public's help, especially for video surveillance. We believe that in many cases, what's not on a video is actually just as important as what is on a video. As far as all the evidence that's been collected, most of that actually, went to the Idaho State Police Crime lab where scientists are working. It's a high priority for this case and they've been working 24/7 to really turn around the evidence and provide that analytics...
Reporter - So, we're still going to be getting some more information from that information that they collected, that hasn't already all been, I mean, it's a big crime scene and they haven't processed all that information just yet?.
Snell - That's correct.
Reporter - All the subjects that were there, that means the people that came from the fraternity house, the witnesses there on the scene that were asleep during this, allegedly - Have they all been cleared from this investigation?.
Snell - What I can tell you is that the roommates that were there and the people that called 911, so that would be all the people that were in the house, detectives at this point time do not believe that any of them were involved. All of them have been cooperative and all of them have helped with the investigation.
Reporter - So, there's been a lot of talk about a dog being at the scene that may have been one of the victim's dog. My question is - Was the dog present in one of the rooms?, or, Was the dog just roaming somewhere in the house, do we know that just yet?.
Snell - Yeah, so to best of my knowledge, we do not know that. What we do know, indeed there was a dog at the residence. Once the officers came, the dog was taken to Animal Services where then a responsible person came and picked up the dog.
Reporter - Was the dog present for the crime?
Snell - So, I don't have that information and we're not sure.
Reporter - And where is the dog now?. Is the dog with the victim's ex-boyfriend?. Can you release that information?.
Snell - So, that's really not our information to release. We do know that the dog was taken to Animal Services and then a responsible person came and took the dog.
Reporter - Is the dog any part of the investigation at this point right now?.
Snell - I don't have that answer for you. I'm not sure.
Reporter - We've learned through some of the press conferences, as well as directly from some of the victims parents that there was a targeted subject there. One of the deceased victims was the target. Can you tell me who was targeted or were there multiple people that were targeted during that incident?.
Snell - So, that's actually a really difficult question and the reason why is because that would be pertinent to the investigation. I think what we have been very consistent in saying is that we believe that this was targeted. We have not come out and said it's targeted to one person or to multiple people. That's all part of that investigation that ultimately will come out. But just right now, it's pretty pertinent to our investigation.
Reporter - I've been following you guys timeline, and you update it as you guys get more information. Xana and Ethan, Mr. Chapin - I looked at the timeline, there's a missing block between 9:00 pm. and 1:45 am. Our team has tried to put together a map and kind of figure out if there is any sources or anything that can provide us that information. Have you been able to fill that part of the timeline in?, because that would probably be critical to you guys investigation, right?.
Snell - Yes, that would be very important and so, as detectives are about that's also what we're trying to do and so anybody that has information we would love to talk with them. We would love video ring camera, just anybody with thoughts and concerns about that. We want to talk to them. We want to make sure that we have a crystal clear picture of where the victims went, where they were that night.
Reporter - Is the fraternity house a part of the crime scene?.
Snell - As part of the crime scene, no, but they do... the people within the fraternity house would have pertinent information. Potentially they saw something out of the ordinary, maybe there were some interactions, those types of things. And so, anybody with that information we want to talk to.
Reporter - I don't want to get into the investigation, obviously, you have to protect that, but the theory of there being what people call a peeping tom - Is that still an option that someone was in the woods looking at these victims?. And if that is true, should the public still be concerned right now?, because that person is still out on the loose.
Snell - So, that's a two-part question. The first part of that question is essentially - Have we ruled anything out? and I can tell you, unequivocally, we have not. As we're gaining this picture of what occured, I think we're going to be able to, hopefully, ascertain kind of the facts of the case and potentially come up with some sort of idea. We do not want to get pigeonholed into anything because we feel that we would miss the other facts and right now since we don't have a specific direction in which to go, we don't want to miss the other facts. The second part of that question, I think, is more about the public safety and the public concern, fear in the community. We recognise there's fear in the community. Ultimately there is a person or persons that is in either our community or someone else's community who's committed four murders and so people need to be alert and aware.
Reporter - Obviously, you've got somebody that's on the loose, right now. There's a lot of fear with the public. Based on what you guys have been able to collect and you all have profilers on the team, the BAU unit is here, why not go ahead and release that profile?.
Snell - So, we don't currently have a suspect and so, as we build that picture, that information from BAU is going to be critical into trying to develop that. And so, if we just provide information to the public - I just don't think that's going to be a wise choice. It will potentially put more fear, more suspicion on a wide variety of people, versus if we use that to really refine where we're at in our investigation, I think that will be more pertinent.
Reporter - Based on the profile that BAU has been able to gather, and again, I understand this is crucial to your investigation, do you believe that the suspect has the ability to attack again?, or do you think this was an isolated incident, that he was specifically targeting individuals or an individual there at that house?.
Snell - So, I think we have to kind of go back to our, unfortunately, standard is that we believe this was a targeted incident.
Reporter - So, you don't think, based on the profile, this person or persons will attack again?.
Snell - I would hate to speculate on anything like that, say one way or the other. I think that you'd be doing a disservice to the community. So, ultimately, we know that there is somebody who is somebody, some people, right?. Ultimately, we know that there's a person or persons that is in a community somewhere that has committed four murders. I think it's important for the public to know that while they may not see a lot of activity in and out of the house, they may not hear about a lot of the different interviews that are occurring but we're making substantial progress. We have a lot of people working on this case and our ultimate resolutions that we would like to find a suspect, make an arrest and then go through the judicial process because that's what would be appropriate.
Which_pancake
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Officers and EMS dispatched, coroner and detectives notified
Edit - it is also noted to be "homicide" I don't know if that was how it was entered that day in the call log, or updated later. But in general it sounds like they knew they weren't responding to a person who fainted.
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Current theory:
Single male, college-aged, lives within walking distance. He may be a current student, or maybe just a local who blends in well with the college crowd.
UNSUB is obsessed with murder and serial murder, and his online browsing habits will reflect that, tho he may not ever reveal this interest to others. He feels socially inferior to the residents of 1122, and has likely never had any kind of romantic relationship. He's basically an Incel, but would never call himself that, or belong to any group. While greatly insecure about his social abilities, UNSUB nonetheless feel himself a superior being, with permission to judge and kill others.
UNSUB is a skilled and experienced hunter - very comfortable with blood and killing and knives. Hunting skills include an ability to patiently watch, unmoving, for a long time.
UNSUB came into contact with one or more of the victims thru mutual social contacts - perhaps even at a party at the King Rd house. He became obsessed with the household itself, but because of the timing of Kaylee's return from her parents' house, I feel that she is the main source of his rage, for some reason.
UNSUB spent a great deal of time watching 1122 from a nearby vantage point in the trees; there is an area southwest of 1122 that offers a clear view of the entire back of the house. Google Maps street level of that area is from 2007; it's clear from street level shots from the corner of King and Queen, taken in 2021, that the structure that were in that cul de sac have been torn down, leaving an open area. I've seen a recent photo of the area, showing an abandoned couch, and a clean view of 1122.
UNSUB may have been at the Corner Club on the night of the murders, saw that Kaylee was back in town, and, from listening in the bar conversation, realized she was soon moving away again. He then leaves the bar, heads to 1122, and finding it empty, with perhaps the kitchen slider open, enters and does a walkabout, leaving the window of the unoccupied bedroom on the 2nd floor unlocked for future entry.
UNSUB then leaves the house, returns to the bar, and leaves before K & M do, returning to his own home and then walking to his blind to watch the house. When all the light finally go dark, he enters. Knowing E and X are on the 2nd floor, and not wanting to encounter them on the way out, he kills them first as they sleep - E first, then X, as she wakens in response to E's stabbing (resulting defense wounds).
UNSUB then goes to the 3rd floor, finds K & M deeply asleep, and kills them without a struggle.
UNSUB locks the girls bedroom doors, as well as the kitchen slider, and leaves thru the window he came in by.
I believe he may have left E & X's room unlocked for some reason, and one of the 1st floor roommates looked in their room, called out to them and got no response. She may have seen other things that made her think there was something amiss, and contacted maybe E's brother to check on him, resulting in the 911 call.
Also, UNSUB may have "creepy-crawled" 1122 previous to the attack to familiarize himself with the layout and inhabitants...and the dog.
Here are photo files showing the area I believe he may have watched from. Note the difference between 2007 and 2021
*The area swirled in the top image is the cul de sac.
Single male, college-aged, lives within walking distance. He may be a current student, or maybe just a local who blends in well with the college crowd.
UNSUB is obsessed with murder and serial murder, and his online browsing habits will reflect that, tho he may not ever reveal this interest to others. He feels socially inferior to the residents of 1122, and has likely never had any kind of romantic relationship. He's basically an Incel, but would never call himself that, or belong to any group. While greatly insecure about his social abilities, UNSUB nonetheless feel himself a superior being, with permission to judge and kill others.
UNSUB is a skilled and experienced hunter - very comfortable with blood and killing and knives. Hunting skills include an ability to patiently watch, unmoving, for a long time.
UNSUB came into contact with one or more of the victims thru mutual social contacts - perhaps even at a party at the King Rd house. He became obsessed with the household itself, but because of the timing of Kaylee's return from her parents' house, I feel that she is the main source of his rage, for some reason.
UNSUB spent a great deal of time watching 1122 from a nearby vantage point in the trees; there is an area southwest of 1122 that offers a clear view of the entire back of the house. Google Maps street level of that area is from 2007; it's clear from street level shots from the corner of King and Queen, taken in 2021, that the structure that were in that cul de sac have been torn down, leaving an open area. I've seen a recent photo of the area, showing an abandoned couch, and a clean view of 1122.
UNSUB may have been at the Corner Club on the night of the murders, saw that Kaylee was back in town, and, from listening in the bar conversation, realized she was soon moving away again. He then leaves the bar, heads to 1122, and finding it empty, with perhaps the kitchen slider open, enters and does a walkabout, leaving the window of the unoccupied bedroom on the 2nd floor unlocked for future entry.
UNSUB then leaves the house, returns to the bar, and leaves before K & M do, returning to his own home and then walking to his blind to watch the house. When all the light finally go dark, he enters. Knowing E and X are on the 2nd floor, and not wanting to encounter them on the way out, he kills them first as they sleep - E first, then X, as she wakens in response to E's stabbing (resulting defense wounds).
UNSUB then goes to the 3rd floor, finds K & M deeply asleep, and kills them without a struggle.
UNSUB locks the girls bedroom doors, as well as the kitchen slider, and leaves thru the window he came in by.
I believe he may have left E & X's room unlocked for some reason, and one of the 1st floor roommates looked in their room, called out to them and got no response. She may have seen other things that made her think there was something amiss, and contacted maybe E's brother to check on him, resulting in the 911 call.
Also, UNSUB may have "creepy-crawled" 1122 previous to the attack to familiarize himself with the layout and inhabitants...and the dog.
Here are photo files showing the area I believe he may have watched from. Note the difference between 2007 and 2021
*The area swirled in the top image is the cul de sac.
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I think they have dna from the scene but initial search didn’t turn up a hit so now they need dna to compare it too. If they arrest someone just to get DNA, public will go nuts assuming that’s the killer. Must be a nightmare for LE on top of which they saw the bodies. Wish I had the $$$ to send them a coffee machine or two and a few meals. JMO
To find the answer for that question time and patience are required. Even with lots and lots of evidence it is not immediately obvious who did it. The LE has to process all the evidence, analyse the results (time!) gather a lot of info, sift through that info to find the stuff that points towards the killer's identity (more time!). Even if they have perp's DNA and full set of fingerprints that might not give them an immediate answer, if he is not in any database and that happens super often. And if it is someone without an obvious personal vendetta against one or more victims, then it gets even more difficult. They have whole town, heck, whole county or maybe even more, of potential suspects.
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I rather hope LE begins to phase out these press conferences for all the reasons you have just pointed out. I would rather see one called when LE has a piece of surveillance footage to share, a composite sketch of the suspect or a car they are trying locate. (Or a manhunt)
Thus far the reporters have either asked lame or mundane questions of LE or have asked questions that are case sensitive and they cannot comment.
The lack of press briefings may eventually lull the killer (who is laying low) into a false sense of security and perhaps he will make a mistake when he does come out of hiding.
All of our questions regarding the facts of the case will be answered in due time.
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Plus, they have to rule people out. If they arrest someone and this goes to trial, defense can make a really big issue out of the fact that they didn’t pursue and rule out other suspects/people of interest. With 4 people being killed (and even including the potential that the 2 surviving roommates that were in the house when the murders occurred were possibly meant to be targets) there would be a large number of people in each victim’s orbit (again, maybe in the roommates’ orbits as well) to rule out.
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Someone mentioned here a few pages ago that they may already have the killers DNA. Maybe that is why so many people like the survivors/friends/ex's, were eliminated from the suspect list so quickly??? Just a thought.
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