ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[Esdaniel]

I’m wondering if anyone has listened to the Nancy Grace or True Crime Garage podcast episodes related to this case? There was an interesting point made on Nancy Grace (I normally cannot stand her but I think the guests she had on were knowledgeable and respectful). One of her guests, David Leroy, speaks of the street accessibility around the house.

Segment begins around 20:00

Idaho Student Murders: COPS TARGET WHITE HYUNDAI

Podcast Episode · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace · 12/08/2022 · 42m

podcasts.apple.com

• David Leroy - Attorney at Law (Boise, ID); Former Idaho Attorney General; Former Idaho Lieutenant Governor & Former Prosecutor (Ada County)

 

[Hexe]

I'm so baffled as to how the murderer entered the room, crept about, probably in poorly lit circumstances and then was in a sufficient position to fatally knife each person in the pair through the chest.

Stab someone on the side of their chest, between ribs and you have a great chance of hitting the liver or the spleen, both richly supplied with blood. Twist the knife and you cause massive internal bleeding, incapacitating your victim. If you stabbed too high and missed the spleen/liver, no worries, because you just hit the lung and your victim is unable to scream. And if the blade is long enough you have a high chance of piercing the heart while stabbing someone between the ribs on their left side. I don't know how lit was the house, so I will not comment on tha

How did they know these girls were dead drunk and would not rouse? Is it possible they went to the house to seek out one of the people, so happened armed with a knife they habitually carry (or had one in their car) and then on finding everyone incapacitated decided to do some gruesome stuff?

Or they just went to kill whoever would be there. Doesn't matter who. But it was a Saturday night in a student house, the probablility some, if not all, inhabitants would be intoxicated was very, very high.

 

[vls12345]

For those wondering about there being two "Good Vibes" signs in the house. It is mentioned/covered in this video from last week:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1601063021094346752

 

[Arkay]

My thought is that the killer didn’t know them or know of them- he/she was angry at the four who were killed.

I'm sorry, I'm not following your train of thought.

If he didn't know them or know of them, why would he be angry at them?

Unless you mean he was angry at what they represented?


ETA: Oh, I see, you meant the surviving roommates.

 

[303gmf]

Idaho murders: Fox News’ Ted Williams pushes back against ‘peeping Tom’ theory: 'More personal'.

Above article from 11/23. In there is a pic I believe shows Kaylees bedroom which looks to me to have a bed and white bed linen of some sort. I think that’s what SG was referencing when he stated you could see her room and it was clean or not disturbed. Maddie’s room would be in the back, correct?

I believe she had not moved all of her furniture out
Perhaps that was waiting until after the holidays
The point was these aren’t individual rooms for rent such an old boarding house type

 

[drmrgrl]

I would bet my last dollar that it is. I just don’t think a woman could carry out this kind of attack - no way! MOO!

Susan Atkins, Leslie Van Houton, Patricia Krenwinkel

 

[drmrgrl]

I'm sorry, I'm not following your train of thought.

If he didn't know them or know of them, why would he be angry at them?

Unless you mean he was angry at what they represented?


ETA: Oh, I see, you meant the surviving roommates.

Yes

 

[hopewell]

Yes, I am still only thinking fact based. We only know that two people were found on the second floor, and two on the third. We don’t know where, only that they were likely asleep when attacked.

Indeed. The perceived inconsistency with the official narrative could be that "they were all likely asleep when attacked" (e.g. all the wounds were to the torso with minimal if any resistance/defensive wounds), but their not necessarily being found in their beds could indicate that one or more victims was posed in some way after death.

Just my opinion.

 

[Emerald1328]

This isn’t directed at anyone in particular because I’ve seen multiple people express this opinion, but what exactly is Occam’s Razor in this case? No need for anyone to reply, especially because most theories may be against TOS! I just see people stating Occam’s Razor applies to this one and I am at a loss as to how the known facts can lead to (1) an obvious answer, which is what most people think Occam’s Razor is or (2), the answer with the simplest set of facts to lead you to a conclusion, the least mental gymnastics, which is what Occam’s Razor truly is.

I’m not saying that anyone’s theory based on an Occam’s Razor type situation is invalid though. Maybe I’m just jealous because I can’t even pare any theory down to “obvious” or “simple”! I don’t even have a theory actually.

 

[kathym1950]

I'm having a hard time believing this could have been done by a random person. I totally believe someone was real angry with someone that night. It had (MOO) to be someone that has been in that house before and knew where everyone was sleeping. The house had a complicated layout. I think they were after one of the two girls and E happened to walk out when they were leaving, he may have known the person and he was a witness. MOO

 

[SteveP]

This isn’t directed at anyone in particular because I’ve seen multiple people express this opinion, but what exactly is Occam’s Razor in this case? No need for anyone to reply, especially because most theories may be against TOS! I just see people stating Occam’s Razor applies to this one and I am at a loss as to how the known facts can lead to (1) an obvious answer, which is what most people think Occam’s Razor is or (2), the answer with the simplest set of facts to lead you to a conclusion, the least mental gymnastics, which is what Occam’s Razor truly is.

I’m not saying that anyone’s theory based on an Occam’s Razor type situation is invalid though. Maybe I’m just jealous because I can’t even pare any theory down to “obvious” or “simple”! I don’t even have a theory actually.

I think Ockham's Razor can be thrown out the window on this one. When 10 different people have ten different ideas as to what the simplest theory is, there is none. JMO

 

[AgathaJessica]

Susan Atkins, Leslie Van Houton, Patricia Krenwinkel

Maybe 2 perps, one on each floor, no back and forth. That would explain the different nature of the wounds. Just my opinion

 

[Mad Hettie]

FWIW I worked with a particular person for 23 years and he was married. We were strictly working acquaintances. I have now been retired 16 years. Suddenly after all this time (I'm 72 years old) I started getting notes on my car, messages on Facebook, I was told he was in the office where I live asking for my address, they did not give it to him. I thought he stopped, and suddenly last week, I was leaving and he was in my building talking to the mailman about where I lived. I walked out right when he was there, OMG talk about shocked and frankly scared. I'm not sure what it is he wants, he's never said, but he is stalking me. He knew the car I drove, and so much information about me. In any case, the person who committed this crime in Moscow could have been a rejected person from their past. People can find you even if you don't want them to.

For many years, I was a nurse specializing in first time families, and have a lot of experience in domestic violence/stalking situations. Any time you feel like someone is showing up in places where they wouldn't normally be and you feel unsafe, document it. Get a notebook and write down the date, time, place, situation, and your feeling. EVERY time. The courts are only interested in written documents from you, so these will be very valuable, and it is important that they're written in real time. If you have the ability, get an attorney now. Many stalkers will consult every attorney in town to remove your ability to fight them in court. Just my two cents.

 

[The Observer]

Idaho murders: Fox News’ Ted Williams pushes back against ‘peeping Tom’ theory: 'More personal'.

Above article from 11/23. In there is a pic I believe shows Kaylees bedroom which looks to me to have a bed and white bed linen of some sort. I think that’s what SG was referencing when he stated you could see her room and it was clean or not disturbed. Maddie’s room would be in the back, correct?

Both K and M's rooms were on the third floor at the back, yes.

IMO I don't think that's the image SG is talking about. I feel the pic of K's room was likely a pic taken by crime scene photographer.

 

[MountainDad]

Why put put a press release for a vehicle without any identifying markers like a license plate, dent on passenger door, special rims, etc ? A model year and color is not a lead and dangerous info to put out. If there are 20000 of those vehicles in Idaho, potentially 20000 people are suspects without an identifying marker. The vehicles occupant(s) may have witnessed something is not a lead.

 

[pmondrian2020]

This isn’t directed at anyone in particular because I’ve seen multiple people express this opinion, but what exactly is Occam’s Razor in this case? No need for anyone to reply, especially because most theories may be against TOS! I just see people stating Occam’s Razor applies to this one and I am at a loss as to how the known facts can lead to (1) an obvious answer, which is what most people think Occam’s Razor is or (2), the answer with the simplest set of facts to lead you to a conclusion, the least mental gymnastics, which is what Occam’s Razor truly is.

I’m not saying that anyone’s theory based on an Occam’s Razor type situation is invalid though. Maybe I’m just jealous because I can’t even pare any theory down to “obvious” or “simple”! I don’t even have a theory actually.

Since KG had just gotten back in town, for me, Occam's Razor is that the motive revolves around her. Either someone she met that night or previously who was very mad with her. This would be particularly the case, if the evidence indicates that her wounds were particularly bad. But there are other scenarios that are plausible as well (random stalker of the house, some connection with other victims). JMO

 

[pmondrian2020]

Why put put a press release for a vehicle without any identifying markers like a license plate, dent on passenger door, special rims, etc ? A model year and color is not a lead and dangerous info to put out. If there are 20000 of those vehicles in Idaho, potentially 20000 people are suspects without an identifying marker. The vehicles occupant(s) may have witnessed something is not a lead.

Just to be clear, there are probably only about 800 such Elantras in Idaho, based on sales data previously published in these threads.

 

[The Observer]

Why put put a press release for a vehicle without any identifying markers like a license plate, dent on passenger door, special rims, etc ? A model year and color is not a lead and dangerous info to put out. If there are 20000 of those vehicles in Idaho, potentially 20000 people are suspects without an identifying marker. The vehicles occupant(s) may have witnessed something is not a lead.

LE has stated they don't know the licence plate which is why they are seeking the publics assistance.

A car being placed near the scene around the time of the murders is most certainly a lead.

 

[kathym1950]

For many years, I was a nurse specializing in first time families, and have a lot of experience in domestic violence/stalking situations. Any time you feel like someone is showing up in places where they wouldn't normally be and you feel unsafe, document it. Get a notebook and write down the date, time, place, situation, and your feeling. EVERY time. The courts are only interested in written documents from you, so these will be very valuable, and it is important that they're written in real time. If you have the ability, get an attorney now. Many stalkers will consult every attorney in town to remove your ability to fight them in court. Just my two cents.

I have been documenting, since he is not making specific threats, I really don't have a case. I can however get him for stalking if he keeps showing up.

 

[Which_pancake]

Indeed. The perceived inconsistency with the official narrative could be that "they were all likely asleep when attacked" (e.g. all the wounds were to the torso with minimal if any resistance/defensive wounds), but their not necessarily being found in their beds could indicate that one or more victims was posed in some way after death.

Just my opinion.

Or fell out of bed.