ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[lucidium]

When I first learned that two roommates were at home, and survived the killings, I, like most, was shocked. Then when I heard that they did not report the crimes until just before noon, I assumed that they had just woken up, which I think would not be uncommon at all, for college kids on weekends when they could sleep in. Whatever they actually may have seen before summoning friends to the house is unknown to us, but I am willing to cut them some slack as to why they summoned the friends before 9-1-1 was called. It is likely that the friends were close enough by that they could get there in just a moment, and the girls were very likely traumatized, especially if they saw one of their roommates, "unconscious" on the floor.

I personally think the girls saw more than just an "unconscious" roommate, and they knew it. I think they were absolutely terrified, and in shock, and as a 60-something-year-old, I might think I would have reacted differently, but as a 20ish college kid, suddenly aware something horrific has happened in the home I shared with good friends, I am not certain that any of us would have been thinking more logically.

The surviving roommates are victims, as well, and I do not find anything "sketchy" about their actions. JMO

Again, the roommates almost certainly did not find the crime scene prior to summoning friends:

On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up.

 

[sunshineray]

Many killers are caught within days to weeks, the difference is the planning ahead, and connection to the crime. That is my point, not that this has been too long or that I‘m not patient. My guess is an investigation takes as long as it does- but the timing says something.

Based on timing IMO this guy was not a friend who came over, had his cell phone in his pocket, got pissed off about something and reacted resulting in the murder of four people, who then walked out of that house in bloody clothing, ran from the scene to get home on foot or to his car and drove home.

I think that because they are not in custody. So It can’t have been a usual suspect- IMO
- No DNA or fingerprints was found on scene and linked to database
- ? Did they ask people in their close circle for DNA swabs?

They are not in custody because of planning
- no forced entry Fact
- in the wee hours when all were likely asleep Fact
- ? bloody trail out of the home
- ? DNA easily found in places that would have to be the killer, such as in blood on doorknobs
- ? fingerprints in blood on doors, door frames

A month out means evidence of many types should be available
So, what is the connection between the perp and the victims if it is not one of their friends or acquaintances? Where did they come into contact with this person, and which of the four was the contact? To me that is the million dollar question as it leads to motive

Weaving all of what we know together
- personal nature of knife brought with the murderer and nature of a stabbing
- word ‘target’ used by PD
- voyeur footage at the GrubTruck showing K and M were drunk that night
- jobs working with the general public in evenings
- heavy presence of victims on social media
- timing of K being only in town for a few days

I see older mature planner, stalker/ voyeur/ obsessed, confident, predator
How long will it take to put the pieces all together? No clue, as long as it takes.
Wish it was yesterday, I have a small inkling of the loss and pain- my kids are 18 and 20.
Very interesting, breaks my heart and gives me the creeps at the same time
JMO

We no nothing about what forensic was found by investigators. Fingerprints bloody or not, in a popular house will need context to be useful...or not. Just one of those fingerprints in an odd place could matter greatly in identifying the killer but have not prosecutorial value because of the sheer number of people who've spent time in that house. I think the challenges are great and very time consuming for the investigators. It may be circumstantial evidence from many different avenues that wind up weaving a picture of who the guilty party is...and convicting them.

It's also going to be very important that these college kids, scared or not, speak up and share within the investigation. It's the right thing to do. The victims and their families deserve no less. AJMO

 

[blackbeary]

Only thing I think happened is roommates knocked on their doors or called them and knew they were not responding. They knew their cars were there so they got creeped out. I think both doors to both rooms were definitely shut and maybe even locked. They went and got friends because they knew something was off but also didn’t want to be overly dramatic if it was nothing big. I’m sure the last thing going through their heads were that all their roommates were stabbed to death.

THIS ^

 

[CityKid]

I’ve seen the footage in other places, clips and this longer version is from NewsNation
Madee is walking pretty smoothly, she is not staggering like she is later. Is she?

At the GrubTruck she is staggering, and swaying while standing still

JMO

I'm guessing a burst of fresh air leaving the bar helped her straighten up on the walk to the grub truck, but standing still and waiting for the food was too much for her.

 

[sunshineray]

Or rage. IMO Perhaps the four roommates were unintentionally complicit in something and I dont mean crime. What if all four of them knew something about a student, a previous roommate, a business or a neighbor and it was accidentally revealed. And what if whatever was revealed led to a tremendous loss, somebody got fired, someone was arrested, someone got expelled, somebody cheated, someone got kicked out of school or lost their scholarship, someone got in trouble, someone’s heart was broken, somebody was shamefully embarrassed or humiliated, someone was extremely disrespected in some way or lost their status or reputation.There was a serious loss of some type and this was the resultant consequence. I’m not victim blaming, I am just trying to make sense of the sequence of events that night that might have set someone over the edge.

Yes I can see with all these young lives intertwined in this community, that the at was ripe for drama of all sorts. I believe the motive for the rage lies in this community. I don't think it was a random SK deciding to stop in Moscow, Idaho and plan a multiple murder. That just doesn't feel right. I could be wrong.

 

[Jawds78]

yes agree was obviously v v drunk at Grub Truck but do we know when this longer clip was filmed? Hours before when she was less drunk or just minutes before on way to Grub Truck ( Sometimes when you're drunk you have really good forward motion when you're walking straight ahead and can look less drunk . plus this longer clip is only 16 seconds snapshot so it's very hard to be sure she's less drunk in it. )

Biggie back- if you finish your drink or have a shot before you leave it will hit you when you're walking home (driving, etc.), It's pretty common.

 

[SadSadPanda]

Only thing I think happened is roommates knocked on their doors or called them and knew they were not responding. They knew their cars were there so they got creeped out. I think both doors to both rooms were definitely shut and maybe even locked. They went and got friends because they knew something was off but also didn’t want to be overly dramatic if it was nothing big. I’m sure the last thing going through their heads were that all their roommates were stabbed to death.

I think you're spot-on here:

You don't want to get your friends/roommates in trouble, generally, so they were probably thinking a couple of things:

1. Possibly calling friends who's places they may have been prone to crashing at to see if they were were (they may not have even known they were home).

2. Getting some help to "wake them up" if they were under the impression they were just passed out.

If the above failed, then maybe it would have spurned them to think maybe something else was going on (I'm going to assume here that your roommates being murdered is a FAR though from most people's minds), so they called for some more help, and then maybe forced their way into the bedrooms and discovered the truth.

If my assumptions are correct, I'd be lead to think that either there was zero evidence of anything wrong outside of the bedrooms (i.e. no blood, anything in disarray). I would be curious to know if anything was evident that would lead them to think anything more than the roommates had too much to drink.

 

[SteveP]

Again, the roommates almost certainly did not find the crime scene prior to summoning friends:

On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up.

Respectfully, that statement in no way implies that the roommates did not see anything. If they had seen nothing, why would they assume that someone was passed out, as opposed to just being soundly asleep? I think they saw a roommate, lying on a floor, which would make someone assume that perhaps they were not just asleep. Alternately, I believe they may have attempted to get into the 2nd floor bedroom, and perhaps someone was lying against the door, so that they were unable to get it open enough to get in.

I still believe that they saw someone they knew was not just asleep or passed out. They may have described the person as possibly "passed out", but I believe that was because they could not accept what they knew they were looking at. JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I tend to agree. I think we’re most likely dealing with an Elliot Rodger type of situation here.

I think this guy hates women. I think he especially hates beautiful women. I think he hates men who have relationships with beautiful women because he hasn’t been able to do it. I think something triggered him to come up with a plan to make the community/campus as a whole pay for this perceived injustice. I think a woman rejected him — maybe one of the female victims or maybe someone completely unrelated to this crime — and it was the last straw for him.

I think this guy is egotistical and narcissistic. I think he’s a guy who didn’t want to die or go out in a blaze of glory because he wanted to see the chaos and terror that he created. I think he needed to feel the redemption he was after. I think he came up with a plan that would create enough carnage to be impactful but also pose little risk of getting caught or killed. If he went on a shooting rampage, he'd most likely be killed or caught. So, I think he scoped out and found a location that guaranteed a large number of popular and attractive “sitting ducks” he could easily kill in the dead of the night with little risk of being caught.

I think he planned it out well ahead of time and I think he chose that weekend to carry out his plan on purpose. Not only would many students be leaving the area for the holidays (which would make things more difficult for LE because people aren’t around to interview and he could also lay low for awhile without raising suspicions) but it would also be more impactful, as losing loved ones around the holidays always feels especially unfair.

I think this guy chose to “target” that particular house for several different reasons:
A) a large number of women lived there
B) several of the women frequently had boyfriends stay over
C) all of the residents were attractive and popular
D) he may have also been rejected by one (or more) of the females who lived there

I think he watched the house for several days or weeks to gather information about their habits. I think he probably entered the home at night on more than one occasion (most likely when no one was home) to familiarize himself with the layout. I think he watched the house that night and waited until everyone was home. I think he waited a reasonable amount of time after the lights went out and then put his plan into action.

I think these attacks were methodical and well-planned out. I think he meant to kill everyone in the house, but something didn't go according to plan and spooked him enough to abandon the remaining roommates and hightail it out of there. Maybe one of the victims nearly got the upper hand when they tried to defend themselves. Maybe he injured himself and worried about leaving blood behind. Maybe he caught a glimpse of blue lights in the window when cops responded to the nearby band field call. It could've been any number of things.

Ultimately, I think this was done by some overly sensitive, narcissistic nobody with an explosive temper and few friends. If he knew the victims, I think he knew them tangentially at best.

That's my 2¢.

Yes, I can see that this could be such a self-centered entitled twit who has the luxury of only thinking about themselves and their own needs. Never a struggle, never a lesson in reality.
Also, games, online groups, social media- a farce, it isn’t social at all. It doesn‘t teach kids how to be social with others who are different from themselves. Instead it gives them an alternative place to fill their own needs without developing social skills And grow up.
I just watched a ‘documentary’ about his story.
Very strange, sad, and odd, and he is a serial killer driven by what he says is hate- likely it is shame, and insecurity.
He lived in a delusional world, and took his own life.

I’m not thinking such a young guy like ER, but someone who is older, stronger physically, and more confident. The undertaking in that location, house, weapon, and victims is more challenging in many ways.
It would also seem that if he was like ER there would be red flags, someone would know a guy on campus that didn’t quite fit. Maybe that info just hasn’t reached the public?
An older version of ER fits IMO, resident of the area or nearby and comes to Moscow for play, met the girls at the restaurant or Corner Club, and became obsessed.

It is interesting to think about, and wonder, and sad and sick to imagine how some young people are suffering, they are lonely and without the skills to create relationships that allow them to be happy. They are ticking time-bombs inside. Women who feel this way aim their rage inside to be self-loathing, young men seem to aim it to the outside- the world.

JMO

 

[MesquiteO21]

I cannot imagine a single scenario where the roommates saw the victims' bodies and mistakenly concluded that they were passed out.

not saying this necessarily happened, but there was a case of a guy who bludgeoned his parents to death and his dad actually didn't die right away and had walked around the house doing everyday things. I think he had loaded the dishwasher, made breakfast, etc. He finally collapsed when he was outside getting the mail.

So, pure speculation, but say if Ethan had been in a similar situation maybe he wrapped himself in a blanket and walked around, ending up passing out in the living area or kitchen. The blanket may have hidden his wounds and maybe even most of the blood so it would look like a typical college kid who passed out from drinking and curled up on the floor.

*MOO*

 

[indicolite22]

No, no, and no.

Why does this theory persist? If any of those were true, the roommates would not have "believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up."

I cannot imagine a single scenario where the roommates saw the victims' bodies and mistakenly concluded that they were passed out.

Perhaps they did see a body (or bodies) and THEY passed out as a result?

 

[crax.t]

Perhaps they did see a body (or bodies) and THEY passed out as a result?

On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up.

 

[Susan A]

Yes I’m pretty sure the girl who answered the door on the Sept 1 disturbing the peace call to 911 was one of the survivors.
We don’t know where Maddie was, she could have been upstairs or at the neighbor’s house or at her bf home, or out of town.
What is interesting is they deferred to her, because of her age most likely. If K had moved out, Madee was the oldest and the only one of the roommates that was legal to drink.

JMO

Can someone link me to this 9/1 disturbing the police video or audio. Thanks so much!

 

[layer]

yes agree was obviously v v drunk at Grub Truck but do we know when this longer clip was filmed? Hours before when she was less drunk or just minutes before on way to Grub Truck ( Sometimes when you're drunk you have really good forward motion when you're walking straight ahead and can look less drunk . plus this longer clip is only 16 seconds snapshot so it's very hard to be sure she's less drunk in it. )

I would bet that this is walking from the Corner Club to the Grub Truck. And it looks like HG is walking them there, as has been frequently speculated on here.

Intoxicated or not, the way in which M is walking, almost marching along, swinging her arms with the obviously oversized coat flopping around past her hands just seems so carefree and joyful. Seemingly having no clue what horrible fate is awaiting them in the next few hours.

It breaks my heart.

 

[crax.t]

Can someone link me to this 9/1 disturbing the police video or audio. Thanks so much!

only link i have is twitter/tiktok and that will likely get taken down.

What is interesting is they deferred to her, because of her age most likely. If K had moved out, Madee was the oldest and the only one of the roommates that was legal to drink.

i believe that K had JUST moved out prior to the murders. they may have just deferred to her because that was who was known by one of the kids that were at the party. IMO.

 

[cottonweaver]

Biggie back- if you finish your drink or have a shot before you leave it will hit you when you're walking home (driving, etc.), It's pretty common.

Plus I'd speculate she has a high metabolism. ( Might explain why she's totally focused, impatient on getting her food on the later Twitch stream. Easy to get 'hangry' when your metabolism is screaming ' Food! or I'll pass out')

Off the back of that, have also wondered if she fell asleep faster than Kaylee that night ( As soon as head hit the pillow, meanwhile others are awake longer for whatever reason. )

 

[crax.t]

I would bet that this is walking from the Corner Club to the Grub Truck. And it looks like HG is walking them there, as has been frequently speculated on here.

Intoxicated or not, the way in which M is walking, almost marching along, swinging her arms with the obviously oversized coat flopping around past her hands just seems so carefree and joyful. Seemingly having no clue what horrible fate is awaiting them in the next few hours.

It breaks my heart.

that last bit is exactly why i'm so attached to this case. K&M seemingly had such a great last night together. K was back in town to show her soul sister M her new car and to party with her. they went at this world together and left together. i've also had many nights where i'm out drunk walking late with my best friends and in good spirits. such a sad sad sad case.

 

[indicolite22]

On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up.

How did they know it was one (which one, X or E?) if they had not seen anything? Where was the other one? Did they think E left and X couldn't wake up?

 

[NyxNY]

Can we step back for a minute to a post on one of the earlier threads regarding the HVAC van that was on the scene of the investigation in one of the pictures? I’d like to know a professional opinion, be it LE, HVAC specialist or otherwise, why they would have been called to the house during the investigation. IMO this is a pivotal piece of information that was barely touched upon.

 

[CityKid]

Can someone link me to this 9/1 disturbing the police video or audio. Thanks so much!

It's on YouTube. You can find it there; I don't think it's an approved source I can link here.