ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[Aquarian]

Same here. When I watched the video, I was stunned to see that a party was going on and no residents were even home. Seems dangerous. And I can't help but think about the poor dog being there in all of that ruckus and commotion. I wonder how many times police had been called to the house.

I think there was speculation the girls were there, just not presenting themselves to the police. Someone thought they heard Kaylees name being yelled before the cops even knocked on the door, that and B answered the door.

 

[10ofRods]

We do not know MPD's evidence or reasoning for the 2011-2013 Elantra search. That information has not been made public.

There's no need for the public to scan VINs. I have not verified this, but given what we know, it is reasonable to assume: (1) there were no significant exterior changes during the 2011-2013 Elantra production run, and (2) it is relatively easy to distinguish 2011-2013 models from other years, if you know what to look for.

It's also helpful to rule out vehicles, and for significantly older or newer models, most people could do that from a distance.

It's only "most people" of the group that can already identify cars.

We've been playing a game, to call out car models when we're out and about, and my husband can tell a bunch of them immediately and at a distance. I can't tell an Elantra from an Altima or a Prius. I can divide cars into colors and shapes. I'm surprised by how much all modern cars look alike (to me).

I think LE put the word out on that car for complex reasons. I do not think they ever said they wanted all of us to report every one we see.

 

[z0mer]

People did photo the vin on the car in Oregon, contacted and threatened the owner. That owner has a lawsuit IMO. Many photos of people's Hyundai's parked in their driveways or on the street, some including license plate numbers.

What if LE put out a presser saying it is critical to speak with someone that was wearing a 2011-2013 White Nike Air Jordan tennis shoe who they believe has crucial info and was there on the night of the murders? There are only 22000 sold and they are going through the list. Be aware of people wearing these shoes, and report if someone in your family might wear these shoes, but has recently stopped wearing?

Some people are out of their mind. I joined a couple of Facebook groups and people in there think it's perfectly fine to spread the craziest rumors, post names, harrash people on social media and I could go on and on. Left them all, couldn't stand the nonsense.

 

[cara23]

Regarding motive
The motive of this crime doesn't have to be big — this crime was so heinous there really is no valid motive.

In my mind motive matters a little but it's really about someone who is capable and interested in killing. There are examples of this in the media. Here are a couple in the same fashion (nighttime stabbing while asleep)

Neighbor boy — Motive: Fantasized about killing
Utah teen who stabbed sleeping couple woke up wanting to hurt someone, charges say

Acquaintance — Motive: Rejection
Man who felt slighted stabbed sleeping couple, officials say

 

[CSIDreamer]

Same here. When I watched the video, I was stunned to see that a party was going on and no residents were even home. Seems dangerous. And I can't help but think about the poor dog being there in all of that ruckus and commotion. I wonder how many times police had been called to the house.

Does anyone for sure know there were no residents there? That opens a whole new can of worms about access to that house. JMO

 

[Counttrarian]

Partying like crazy eventually catches up with you and often the outcome is tragic.

I, several recent former Presidents, likely a US Supreme Court Justice and quite a few captains of industry would respectfully disagree. From all accounts of KG liked to party as much as any of the housemates but also was on the Deans list. I don't blame college kids for partying and no way of knowing if it had anything to due to their murders.

 

[Walela]

It has likely already been mentioned but IMO this driver was interviewed very early in the case probably more than once. Also the bartender who had “everything” told to them has been interviewed as well. LE know what the “everything” that was discussed is JMO.

Just a thought about the "everything".....we don't know if there really was anything told to the bartender. MM could have been just messing with KG simply because sometimes best friends tease each other and she knew KG didn't want something told and she was in a teasing frame of mind. She may not have told him anything.
moo

 

[gizmobtj]

Let me offer you another plausible theory. It was not about killing four people or everyone in the house. It was all about killing one person and person 2, 3 and 4 were just between the killer and his exit and the intended victim. Or that the person was trying to kill one person and they were not home and all four were just between the killer and where he thought his intended target was.

"I struggle with that idea, because the victims were in different rooms on two different floors. Let's say the killer didn't know what room his/her intended target was in. That suggests they just kept killing people until they found the victim they really wanted to kill. Assuming this person has not killed multiple people in their past, I have a very hard time seeing murderous passion against one person being sustained through the murder of three unplanned or "unnecessary" victims."

@maskedwoman - Good point. Re: your comment above ... My thought experiment went like this: the killer has to kill Ethan because his a threat. Because he's with Xana, he kills her too. He goes up to Kaylee's room and she is not there, so he goes to Maddie's room and finds Kaylee and kills them both. If, for example, Kaylee was the target why the four might make sense

 

[10ofRods]

Does anyone for sure know there were no residents there? That opens a whole new can of worms about access to that house. JMO

One of the residents answers the door, IMO, but says she's not a resident. Right at the beginning of the body cam, three girls run across the yard to our right as viewers. At any rate, the first girl (who survives the killings) says she's going to go get one of the actual residents and then doesn't come back to the door for a long time (maybe 7-8 minutes?) and then the police start knocking and saying they're not going away.

Two young men (frat types IMO) then come and calmly deal with the situation until someone gets Maddie on the phone.

The party is told to be quieter and police dump out abandoned alcohol cans on the ground. Everything continues on as before, but quieter, inside the Party House. IMO.

 

[hopewell]

I have a hunch that the car found in Oregon may just be the car in question. Though LE said they talked to the owner in Colorado, and she has no ties to the property in Moscow, they did NOT say the car itself wasn't involved. Usually they are very quick to say when someone or something is "unrelated to the murders". Not so here.

Likely stolen, but could've also been a loaner to someone.

JMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I think there was speculation the girls were there, just not presenting themselves to the police. Someone thought they heard Kaylees name being yelled before the cops even knocked on the door, that and B answered the door.

IMO none of this is surprising, and I went to college quite a few years ago, and definitely we 'hosted' parties where we were known to start the party and leave. So IMO nothing about that party was surprising, unusual, etc. That's just my opinion based on my own well-spent youth edited to remove detail.

 

[lucidium]

People did photo the vin on the car in Oregon, contacted and threatened the owner. That owner has a lawsuit IMO. Many photos of people's Hyundai's parked in their driveways or on the street, some including license plate numbers.

What if LE put out a presser saying it is critical to speak with someone that was wearing a 2011-2013 White Nike Air Jordan tennis shoe who they believe has crucial info and was there on the night of the murders? There are only 22000 sold and they are going through the list. Be aware of people wearing these shoes, and report if someone in your family might wear these shoes, but has recently stopped wearing?

I hear what you're saying, and the public response is definitely a problem. I'm not convinced that MPD should alter their investigation tactics though. Like many things in life, there's no easy answer.

That said, I think your analogy wording is off. MPD says the Elantra was in the area and that the "occupant(s) may have critical information to share regarding this case." LE has never claimed that the occupant(s) are considered suspects. In my opinion, it is irresponsible for anyone to jump to that conclusion. It is far worse to act on that erroneous conclusion and insert oneself into an investigation.

 

[tstephens1981]

There was some discussion in "Thread #35" about the co-mingling of blood and what it could prove. I'm somewhat familiar with DNA, as it relates to genealogy, but have a question about the "co-mingling" that was discussed and the fact that it could determine the order of death.

My question is probably best asked by using an example. If my wife and I both gave blood and they were to take some of her blood and some of my blood and mix it up and then test it for DNA would they be able to extract her exact DNA and my exact DNA from that mixed sample?

Short answer, yes (for your example.) But you would also presumably be available to provide a reference sample in case they weren’t sure.

Where it gets complicated is when you have
1. Lots of samples mixed together (AFAIK anything above 4-5 individuals is extremely complex at the moment.)
2. Varying strengths of samples (e.g. blood of one person mixed with touch DNA from another, as well as fresher vs older.)
Luckily there are software programs that are great at “amplifying” these weaker samples, as well as looking at the snippets repeatedly to determine what is an actual profile.

To tie this into our current case, DNA from common, shared spaces will be much less relevant (and harder to profile) than from say, the bedrooms where you would expect fewer individuals’ samples. If I were investigating, I would use both- (IME) the more mixed-up samples would be useful for eliminating certain people whereas the less-mixed samples might be better for including people. When you finally have a handful of complete, unknown (i.e. non-referenced) samples, now you can start looking toward phenotyping & taking the genealogical route. Hopefully it doesn’t get to that point & they can obtain a reference sample- maybe from the ever-elusive Elantra? Or however else they can obtain it.

Source: my experience (DNA sequencing) and this primer is helpful if you haven’t dealt with sampling

DNA Mixtures: A Forensic Science Explainer

What are DNA mixtures? And why are they sometimes so difficult to interpret?

www.nist.gov

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

A few ideas…I know it’s too long.

1-I think that the murderer lives within sight of the house and knows the interior of the house very well.

2- Since the day after the murders is Sunday, I think that he was working at a job having a standart off-day as Sunday and that's why he chose Saturday night.

3- I think he is a smart person and has calculated the escape plan after the murder, determined the places where he would get rid of his clothes and the murder weapon, and the car he used avoiding the cameras while managing this.

4-I think he escaped from the back of the house and got into his stolen parked car(white Hyundai imo) , then got rid of the car without being caught on camera and returned to his house by public transportation the next day. Or maybe before the murders he took his own car to the place where he switched the cars.

5- I believe that the cameras in the public transportation and the entrance and exit camera records of the neighbors houses and cars of Saturday and Sunday were checked .

6- My guess is he knew the people in the house from the neighborhood, he had been in the house before, he was pissed off due to the noise and loud parties, and he had serious psychological problems and had taken drugs before the murders. In his sick mindset, he targeted the house and its occupants .. The LE statement ‘’ targeting the house ’’ supports this view , in my opinion .

7-I think he started with K and M then E and X. I don’t think he would take the risk of waking up both above and below residents by starting from the middle floor.

8-In my opinion, people who live nearby and have a record of car theft and use heavy prescription psychological drugs should also be on the radar.

 

[Jawds78]

The original quote from Jawds78 is not the same as what they are quoting. I was making a correction because I did not hear "We don't know who the individual is" but I did hear "We're not sure exactly where the individual is."

That is a big difference JMO

Thank you for the correction.

 

[gizmobtj]

I, several recent former Presidents, likely a US Supreme Court Justice and quite a few captains of industry would respectfully disagree. From all accounts of KG liked to party as much as any of the housemates but also was on the Deans list. I don't blame college kids for partying and no way of knowing if it had anything to due to their murders.

I hear you, but even though Presidents and captains of industry did, it does not mean it caught up with one or two of them too (think JFK's family lifr, Stalin's paranoia and death, etc.). Franklin Pierce was called the “Hero of Many Well-Fought Bottles" and Grant's drinking fueled his demons. Kavanagh almost didn't get his seat because.

But the point is that I surely don't think that's what led to the murders, but there a reason a lot of people stop it as they get older. Partying can make you vulnerable but it surely ain't going to make someone kill you

 

[rahod1]

This is absolutely what I think too.
The person who had a grudge or 'beef' with these students didn't do the killing himself. They got someone in to do the job. Someone who specialises in that kind of thing, and who was capable of doing it without being caught.

I've commented on this previously.
Keep in mind, doing this would expose the instigator to another level of exposure.....should the perpetrator get caught or *leak* what they did. BTW, a *hired hit* would usually entail a *clean execution*>>>Staged accident...firearm...etc. Using a knife to slaughter 4 victims would NOT be a what I would consider a *professional's mode of choice*. MOO.

 

[AngTxGal]

Same. I got tears in my eyes watching it this morning. My heart aches for surviving friends and families. Sometimes I wonder what I would want the general public (like us here on WS) to do if one of the victims were my daughter. I think even before we even get into anything to do with sleuthing, I would want people to see the photos and videos of my daughter alive and well, to really see her, to connect and know what a beautiful soul the whole world has lost.

It's so heartbreaking to know that if and when legal justice is served, the toothpaste can never be put back in the tube. I would encourage everyone who discusses this tragedy in any open forum to use utmost consideration and respect. I think we do a good job here on WS (mods THANK YOU!) but it's never a bad idea to sound a reminder that we are examining a tragedy that's wake certainly has traumatized enough already.

Absolutely agree, and my daughter is who I saw watching the video of those girls being young and having fun with each other. What a tragic loss of young lives.
I already do not trust the world with my kids, and after such a tragedy parents do not have that choice. They have to turn over their child’s life to LE, and the public, and many may not live in a world where the realities of evil are Present.
What a blow to be immersed in the destruction of evil and loss and have still more evil people harm what remains of your sanity, and of you and your family.
Appreciate the reminder

JMO

 

[Jawds78]

Not only did he say it, News Nation plastered it all over the screen.

View attachment 389546

It's interesting things can be taken so differently- I heard the 'where' as well, but the previous statements felt like they didn't have a person so it was a general 'where'. I at first focused on 'individual' and thought he was alluding to the fact he knew 1 person committed these crimes, but no idea where they might be. JMO as I like to consider all angles.

 

[AuntTricia]

Much has been speculated about the meaning of the conversation between Kaylee and Maddie ....The I told Adam Everything conversation.
One theory that Maddie told Adam that Kaylee was done with her relationship with Jack D. and Adam, both a friend and roommate or former roommate of Jack's, passed on that information.
That doesn't make sense to me. That would be breaking girl code to interfere in a relationship like that without permission. Kaylee's tone sounds like she's not thrilled when she's heard about it.
What makes more sense to me is if Maddie told Adam Kaylee was scared of someone and gave examples of things the person had been doing, stalking ect.
That Maddie was taking it seriously and Kaylee wasn't or wasn't ready to confront the situation yet....and Maddie decided to act.
The fact that Adam was a bartender opens up his view of their social interactions . Maddie might have chosen him because the person was known to frequent the bar in addition to his relationship with Kaylee's ex.

IMO the Adam conversation is actually fortunate, because Adam is known, not a mystery, and he has been interviewed by the police.

Therefore, IMO we don't even need to expend our energy in speculating about what "I told Adam everything" could possibly mean.

Adam is right there to explain it.

Whether Adam tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is for LE to figure out, but just for me personally, there are many others things which mystify me more and about which we still are speculating wildly.

Jmo

HG walking with K and M will have a version of the conversation as well. Cross reference those.