ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[detectivewannab]

Or even worse, an innocent man gets convicted and the killer skates away, without any further scrutiny.

I feel we have arrest coming soon. With cameras and social media he can not hide for long.

 

[10ofRods]

Idaho Military Bases | One Base | MilitaryBases.com " There’s just one military base in Idaho. It’s an Air Force base in Elmore, in the southwest" And, no, military personnel do not need permission to go into town unless they are in the initial phase of training (ie: basic training) Actually, military personnel often live right in the community/neighborhoods surrounding the base they are stationed at. The vast majority of military personnel "go to work" just like everyone else. It just happens that they work on a military base.

So, about 6-7 hour drive away. I'd say that's pretty far. But, again, by Western standards, not so far. That's how far I am from San Francisco and we used to think of it as a short jaunt for a weekend.

Thanks for the info about the military - I should have known it was just basic training. However, the installations nearest where I work do have gates to get on/off base and cameras there. But many people do live out in the community, for sure. I just think military personnel receive a lot of scrutiny and that this perp would have needed to visit Moscow several times. Unlikely, IMO. Not impossible though.

 

[FlamingoLady]

So, about 6-7 hour drive away. I'd say that's pretty far. But, again, by Western standards, not so far. That's how far I am from San Francisco and we used to think of it as a short jaunt for a weekend.

Thanks for the info about the military - I should have known it was just basic training. However, the installations nearest where I work do have gates to get on/off base and cameras there. But many people do live out in the community, for sure. I just think military personnel receive a lot of scrutiny and that this perp would have needed to visit Moscow several times. Unlikely, IMO. Not impossible though.

Yes, bases are gated. But not to keep people in.

 

[layer]

I feel we have arrest coming soon. With cameras and social media he can not hide for long.

I just don't. It seems to me that if there was a simple solution there wouldn't be a search for the mystery Elantra. And the arrest would have already been made. Time will tell.

JMHO

ETA: I hope you're right!

 

[MesquiteO21]

I'm not sure about UI (or other schools in Idaho), but WSU in Pullman has a college of veterinary medicine.

no veterinary schools in Idaho. there are actually not as many veterinary schools in the US as people might think. Around 20 or so i believe.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

TOTAL SPECULATION AHEAD
Yeah, I picture him getting interested in martial arts, blade weaponry, etc., and thoroughly exploring that. Long hours spent on the internet. Is into gaming as well, probably with role playing combat games - using the same set of weapons he wishes he had in real life, perhaps gradually collecting a few knives or a knife and an ax or bow.

Knife is a prize possession, has watched youtubes on how to use a personal defense knife/human killing knife. May have had a longterm interest in harming non-human animals. Is not a hit with the ladies.

Feels entitled to a girlfriend, doesn't have one right now. May have never had a longterm romantic relationship (brittle relationships), blames others for this. Is obviously misogynistic (others have noticed it in him).

Gets into quarrels, fights, disagreements. Thinks his view is always right. Was rewarded for these behaviors as a child. Parents don't want him at home either. Is living somewhere, perhaps nearly free, because people are afraid to confront him to get him out.

Is likely capable of humor and may mock others. Is smart, above average in intelligence.

Above all, this guy enjoyed acquiring the various elements of his plan. I'm not all the way to "he wore a wetsuit" but I do think he had a kill outfit, with kevlar gloves, and it wouldn't surprise me if this nutcase did have night vision goggles (nutcase is not a professional term). Likely had a backpack with trash bag for clothes just in case, and knew that his strength and speed were up to the task. May have practiced in his room (which is likely not a regular dorm room but perhaps just some space he has found he can inhabit - many universities have these kinds of students lurking about). OTOH, maybe he's still getting financial aid and is in grad school (I think he's slightly older than the undergrad population and looks down on them and thinks they are all easy targets).

If he has left town, it'll be a long time before he can put together the same type of plan, but he will miss his aggro ways and his planning. Right now, he's in escape/hide mode which is likely another challenge that he at least partly enjoys.

He's a high risk suspect, he may prefer death-by-cop or suicide.

So many things on your list match mine. For some reason imo he's only average or below average height but has strong upper body - maybe even steroid use, if he's feeling really inadequate? would that work? It seems like it would be a point of pride for him and extremely handy in his hobby.

As for kill outfit, definitely, along with backpack. He could have applied a nice thick layer of vaseline under clothes to lock down the shedding, although I do believe the special suit (customized by him for him) c/b an option IMO JMO to keep the DNA in. I see him as obsessive controller. JMO

Re the misogyny, and perhaps just because of my personal lens, but IMO JMO he seems a strong contender for the Madonna/prostitute dichotomy, and I wondered if one of these women went from one to the other in his eyes, therefore deserving. imo the other three were collateral damage.

This was planned. planning met opportunity.

Everything here is JMI IMO IMI, but not wild speculation, just an application of the few facts we know filtered through my own opinion based on reading and listening to expert analysis, etc. after evaluation of the known facts. Known facts include: police map, map of Moscow, four people killed in two bedrooms (potentially - this from SG not LE), killings done with a knife, two roommates and a dog left alive, layout/floorplan of house, and time/location of killings.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, bases are gated. But not to keep people in.

Right. Although, I've had students who did something to get themselves confined to base and one student who was required to move back on base after some misconduct just off base. At any rate, the whereabouts of military people are generally more known than the whereabouts of, say, college students.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

This is very true. It doesn't bother me much at all, coming from the era, and the crowd I was / am around. Flipping a friend the bird is like waving hello or goodbye these days.

It's sorta become the southern version of Bless Your Heart. It's given with a tone, and an expression, that the receiver understands. If that makes sense.

However, the generation of my parents, and even one prior, do not feel quite the same so I understand where you are coming from. I grew up on the cusp of it being said in a joking nature, or swearing during heated conversations, but not said in public. I do feel the kids were joking around based on body language and the gist of the video footage that I reviewed.

technically, I'm 'old' and a b/f and I used to use fu in place of I love you, but we knew what we meant. it was a playful thing. inappropriateness and sacrilege are not age specific lol imo jmo.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

no veterinary schools in Idaho. there are actually not as many veterinary schools in the US as people might think. Around 20 or so i believe.

https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/colleges-accredited-1-2022.pdf

 

[blackbeary]

Oh, I hope so! And that they took the drains from all the bathrooms for analysis - because recent DNA in the drain would be awesome.



Yep. But, my point is that the internet instructions on how to kill humans specifically mention the liver - which is an appropriate target for a kill. You don't need to hit the upper portion of the liver, just damage the lower part of the organ. True that it could have been accidentally, but I'm still going with the knife being used in its "official" position (held like a saber and not in the grip one would use for rapid stabbing).

It's IMPOSSIBLE to say how well the killer knew anatomy or what he was aiming for at this point in time. All we have are the statements of one victim's parents to go off of.

We are all spitballing here and everything in this post is opinion.

However, no word that a heart was pierced from the parents.

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

Slain Idaho college student Kaylee Goncalves' father exclusively told Fox News Digital that the victims had "big open gouges" that were made by a "sadistic male."

autos.yahoo.com

Big open wounds, says the father. (Not puncture-like stabs). From the article:

//Steven Goncalves said he asked the coroner, Cathy Mabbutt, how many times the victims were stabbed.
"She says, sir, I don't think stabs is the right word, it was like tears, like this was a strong weapon, not like a stab."//

Would tear, slashed or sliced mean the same thing ? Serrated edge could tear ?

 

[10ofRods]

Would tear, slashed or sliced mean the same thing ? Serrated edge could tear ?

Yes, although apparently Ka-Bar - non-serrated - is capable of tearing through skin and muscle. But it could have been a serrated knife - by now, that must be completely clear to the ME and in the ongoing autopsy report.

But I think it could have been done with a non-serrated blade (according to my knife wound atlas).

 

[MesquiteO21]

She had completed all her studies and was set to graduate, she would have been in the winter graduating class that had their somber commencement on December 10th. So other than partying and showing off her new vehicle that weekend, she had no reason to be in Moscow.

JMHO

so if i'm understanding correctly, she moved in in August, moved out November-ish? well sounds like she was still in the process of moving out so mid-November. So she was only there for basically 2.5 months, possibly ~3?

 

[rsd1200]

When did they get that dog? I mean "friendly" broken up couples don't necessarily get a dog "together". JMO

I am unsure, it appeared to be about a year or so old. I do think they shared the dog, or her former bf babysat the dog. It's possible the dog was a gift from him while they were "taking a break".

I probably wouldn't have been onstage at my friendly "broken up", or "taking a break", s/o's memorial, but that's just me. I'd probably attended but not been front and center. All folks are different.

 

[Imogenia]

My biggest fear in this case (and IMO the reason why BAU is so heavily involved) is that LE fears for the safety of witnesses in this case. And they should be afraid. Chief Fry comes across as reassuring, but I'm sure part of him is quite worried about what this perp will do next.

If they were to arrest this person without the strongest, most damning evidence, he would be out on bail (like Barry Morphew) fairly quickly. Then what? They've interviewed a *lot* of people, and some of them are going to be key witnesses. We learned in the Morphew case that those ankle bracelets are not a perfect solution, as when the geofence is violated, the signal goes to some human somewhere, who then contacts LE and there's real lag time there.

This perp is not messing around. I do not believe this was a traditional crime of passion. I think they're dealing with a cold-blooded murderer who takes some enjoyment from vengeance and believes their own cause is always right and must be defended.

I agree they need to get him, charge him with several things, and show the judge he must be held until trial. They need to have their trial game up and running, as well.



But, for greatest efficiency with a fixed blade knife, you wouldn't exactly use a stabbing motion (and Mr G seems to imply this was the case). So it's not just someone who has watched TV and gotten ideas about how to stab - this is someone who knows how to use that kind of knife.

I totally agree that no medical knowledge is necessary, but I do believe it was intentional that the heart was avoided, the jugular and carotid were avoided etc. Coroner clearly said upper body/torso. It's unusual to see someone go for the liver, as Mr and Mrs G have said happened to K., but it's highly effective and something other than a stabbing motion is typically used (think using body weight/momentum and knife is like a bayonet). I think anyone who is interested in sharp blade weaponry would likely know this (although some wouldn't) and it in no way takes military OR medical training.

And some people have to really think about where the liver is (half of my students guess the wrong side in their first quiz - which means everyone is likely guessing). My students (mostly freshmen and sophomores, basic human biology class) also do not know what the liver does or why it might be lethal to have severe damage to it. My class is a prereq for the forensic sequence, if you're wondering why we're taking that approach (it''s also important in paleoanthropology as we try to ascertain causes of death in the past as well). Kind of a niche knowledge to have, IMO.

I think that 10ofRods is onto something (in a lot of their posts). Third paragraph down could be illuminating, so who would be out for vengeance, believing that their cause is always right, and must be defended? What cause? How can it be adjudged as ‘always right’? In these days of moral relativism my idea of what is ‘right’ could be what you believe to be ‘wrong’, and we could happily agree to disagree. Is the perp (or perps) working from moral absolutism, truly believing that they are right?

If it is unusual to go for the liver, using body weight, momentum, and this type of knife like a bayonet, how did the perp (or perps) learn how to do this? What compelled them to keep going? How could they watch, and still continue, as four innocent beautiful young people died horribly at their hands, one, after one, after one?

 

[CityKid]

so if i'm understanding correctly, she moved in in August, moved out November-ish? well sounds like she was still in the process of moving out so mid-November. So she was only there for basically 2.5 months, possibly ~3?

Which makes me wonder about starting a 12-month lease in August. $500/month might be decent rent, but $6,000 for the year while only spending three months there strikes me as wasteful. I wonder if she changed the date of her planned graduation.

 

[FlamingoLady]

Which makes me wonder about starting a 12-month lease in August. $500/month might be decent rent, but $6,000 for the year while only spending three months there strikes me as wasteful. I wonder if she changed the date of her planned graduation.

From personal experience, it's not uncommon to find another student to take over your lease if need be.

 

[rsd1200]

I believe there is also a tendency for reporters to use other media reports as their "sources" without independently verifying the information. So one story gets a fact wrong, and it keeps getting passed around and never corrected. Certainly there are times reporters need to keep a source secret, but I think they are abusing that privilege. I am always suspicious when a news article makes a statement and then says "sources say." Instead of naming that source. It is lazy and dishonest, but they rarely get called on it.

I admit to laziness in this area at times, just to grab a quick link, for tos, but I prefer to drill down as close to the main source, or the hometown news, as possible. In my former life, I was a researcher/JOAT of sorts. Accuracy was everything.

 

[CityKid]

From personal experience, it's not uncommon to find another student to take over your lease if need be.

That's how we did it in our college house. So does that mean Kaylee already found someone to take her spot in December or January? If she was heading to Europe in January then Austin in February, she'd want to be out of the apartment ASAP and have lined someone up by November.

 

[OrlandoJames]

If the killer/s objective was a quiet scene, they would have sliced the trachea. A horizontal cut across the throat. But that didn't happen AFAIK.

Given what we know of the injuries to the victims, it is highly unlikely the killer was a professional seeking to act as quickly and efficiently as possible. More probable that he enjoyed killing his victims and wanted to revel in it. In fact, the act of killing probably was the motive.

 

[FlamingoLady]

That's how we did it in our college house. So does that mean Kaylee already found someone to take her spot in December or January? If she was heading to Europe in January then Austin in February, she'd want to be out of the apartment ASAP and have lined someone up by November.

Good question.