ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

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  • #401
I certainly never said it did, and can't find anyone on this thread who said that. I was talking about a hazing or other criminal act being covered up within a fraternity/sorority, and how someone outside the frat leaking info about a hazing could cause the frat to lose their charter/house, and brothers/sisters in a house might lose their campus housing, be prosecuted, be ostracized etc. if word got out that they'd been involved in a hazing. Historically, hazings have been treated like a house issue rather than a legal one, although that's changing. Forcing someone to drink until they pass out, forcing someone to walk backward into a river or other body of water when they can't swim, forcing someone to exercise until their heart gives out... those might not be called murder under the law, but if word gets out that you did something like this to someone, your future career could take a serious hit. Some of the hazing methods at this link are horrifying, although not murder.
Do you mean that maybe one of the victims knew something about a bad incident and told others about it? How did they know about it? Why didn't they go to the authorities?

Just trying to fit it into an scenario I hadn't yet considered. :)
 
  • #402
When both the girls were at the pickup window of the Grub Truck, at one point, with Kaylee in front of her at that window, Maddie holds her phone up like she's taking a picture behind her. That's what it seems like to me. HG and the guy with the cap, standing behind them, seemed to be who she was photographing.

I would imagine there was a plethora of potential info on all of there phones once in the hands of LE, Ill leave it at that...
 
  • #403
I worry about the mental state of DM & BF, I cant even imagine what they have been going through from finding the victims to knowing how close they may have come to also being victims themselves...maybe even living with "survivors guilt". I wonder if these girls can even come back to UI after this?
The same with JD...just him wondering in his head over and over if he would have answered his phone that night, could the circumstances be different.
Survivor's guilt is a very real thing. It's pernicious and persistent.
 
  • #404
  • #405
Jumping ahead to post
Does anyone know whether Kaylee traded her old car in for the LandRover? Or did she sell it herself through advertising such as Craigslist??
K was selling her old car herself on FB. The listing was created with her FB profile.
@10ofRods alluded to it in a discussion of possible secret activities that involved hazing in the past; there was no discussion of hazing in reference to this murder (and I don't believe this murder was a hazing).
Not the murder itself, but perhaps a consequence of a hazing is what I think the thinking may be here. IMO. IF there hypothetically was a serious hazing incident, perhaps an unhinged family member sought revenge.

Whether unlikely or not I don't think you can completely discount the murders linked to a sorority or even frat incident. Especially given three of the victims were in those sororities on probation and the fact that Maddie and Xana had both left their sorority.

Source
 
  • #406
Hairsplitting?

Snipping for focus @layer
There you go again, getting all nitpicky, talking about "LEGALLY obtaining." J/k. [wink]

Yes, legally obtaining a suppressor to use - esp'ly if getting initially for these homicides - would require some planning, time, & $$$.
That's quite an obstacle course. And w good reason.

By comparison, aquiring a suitable knife from a local artisan cutler, big box store, online, or FB mktplace, or friend, would be waaay easier & cheaper.

Or if intent on using gun & suppressor, Perp might have gone the time-honored way of experienced criminals: Stealing.

Well, that’s assuming that he knew someone who had a suppressor. I certainly don’t.
 
  • #407
Any explanation for the SUV a neighbor allegedly saw? LE are asking for help to find the Elantra. No mention of the SUV. Moo.

 
  • #408
Interesting. You must have gone in very early. I went to Kaylee's insta by day 4-5, and it was close to 50,000. It's not impossible to get the actual data, though, if one wants to try and use any of the Instagram analytic programs (as I'm sure the FBI has done).

Really creepy that so many people followed after the murders.

At any rate, I trust you - that certainly narrows down their Instagram social world. That means that screenshots of their instas are fake (the ones circulating).
It’s very creepy, I agree! I’m surprised that their families didn’t do what Ethan’s family did in the first couple of days and make it private (it was public for a couple of days). Hopefully LE is able to get a follower list as of a specific date - I think if there are any insights to be gained from a follower list, it’s more likely to be the followers before the murder than after. Though with the profiles public, I guess someone wouldn’t even need to be a follower to see everything.
 
  • #409
When both the girls were at the pickup window of the Grub Truck, at one point, with Kaylee in front of her at that window, Maddie holds her phone up like she's taking a picture behind her. That's what it seems like to me. HG and the guy with the cap, standing behind them, seemed to be who she was photographing. AJMO
I presume she was taking a picture of the menu for reference later. Ie: someone in the group pics up an order. The person behind her is known to both of them and walks with them. Not a stranger but a friend. It has been discussed many times over. I believe
 
  • #410
One of the required courses for KG's major was indeed such a course - so if that's all she had to take, she was good to do it almost anywhere (probably had to meet up with the supervising prof 1-2 times). There was also a senior year capstone course (one for each semester - she could well have taken the spring offering last spring, but I am wondering how she planned to complete that one requirement - it was not offered as a DL course, but she could have special arrangements).

So that then begs the question: if you can do your work anywhere, and you're taking out student loans (as claimed by her parents) to afford your on campus lifestyle, why pay rent? And it sure sounds like she did not have a full time job in Moscow that would have offset her expenses.

She could have used her "internship" money (her parents are a bit confused about what the term "intern" usually means in a college - it means "unpaid work experience," but of course companies can do whatever they want about actually paying someone; I am not sure her parents are the best source on this).

If she got enough internship money to pay for the Range Rover, her rent and utilities, gasoline, medical and vet bills, food and clothing in one summer's work, then it makes sense. But that's one unusual internship, from my experience.

Just some interesting ways of looking at KG, who by all accounts was a good student and ambitious.



No. I have suggested that one motive for such killings could be that someone, somewhere, had a secret.

Then I also suggested that if people are going to theorize that there was more than one person involved in this crime, I will bet all my lunch money that this will rope in fraternities and sororities - it's not a cartel, it's not a motorcycle gang, it's not the local service workers' union members, it's not a group of neighbors, etc.

I have at least another 50 articles on hazing to read when I get time, but after spending half a day on it (and this isn't my first pass through this information), I do think it sounds like a form of gang initiation (and its intentions are the same - to create a secret code and a bound-together-by-misadventure crew of...pranksters? Sadly, alcohol itself can be fatal to inexperienced young people).

All it would take, though, is one person with a secret and a mission - and a psychopathic mind (which, IMO, goes without saying in this crime - this was the crime of a person who harbors enormous aggression, fantasizes aggression, likes thinking about weapons, is either prone to rage or hate - and is hidden in plain sight, most likely). That's why the police want the Elantra. They believe that someone knew or saw this person that night. They know who the person is. They have found "patterns" in the results of their talks with many, many witnesses - they are still stuck on the Elantra that was on campus/near campus that night. They are not telling the public that there's a rando psychopath at large.

Could one person in a frat be that person? Of course - and in that case, would all his brothers immediately turn him in? Maybe. But if, as Chief Fry said on Friday (I think it was Friday), "we don't know where the individual is." Something like that. Very scary for the town of Moscow - and especially, for LE. If, however, the frat people do not turn him in - but simply tell the truth about not knowing his whereabouts that night, that would make him highly suspicious to LE. POI's are not generally named these days, in any case.

What LE needs is for the witnesses in the Elantra to place this person at or near 1122 King Road or vicinity that night. They may have a good idea that this person left his dwelling and was out and about, but so far, haven't got him on a neighbor's camera. If it's the other scenario, in which the occupants of the Elantra are involved somehow - then yes, we do get an example of a group of people, most likely young people and university-related, being involved in a quadruple murder. In my mind, it's possible that the Elantra driver and occupant (if any) might know this person and might have seen him in the area of the house (and may even have told others this already - but are unwilling to tell LE).

There's a secret. Somewhere. IMO. The dynamics of this situation could be applied to other possible suspects, but it makes sense that it would be a student (probably not undergrad) who has known anger issues and has been mentioned to LE, and the Elantra people are crucial to confirming that they saw him that night, outside of his dwelling and in the neighborhood of 1122 King. Could be non-fraternity related, but my intuition (MOO) says that there are students who know more than we do.



Me too. Something like that. Surprising to look through instagrams of some of the frats and see a few ski masks, too. I was thinking that a person with a big self protection knife would want opportunities to display it and practice with it, too. But I bet there are quite a few people who meet that description out of the 10-11,000 students in Moscow (and some locals could fit the description as well).
I also think the jump from hazing to quadruple homicide is a huge leap. This isn't the first time you said you would bet money the killer is in a frat.(I highlighted in bold) You also posted links to the face eating frat guy.

And while I think its possible the killer or killers are in a fraternity, and agree they do have some secrets, I don't think they are particularly malicious and have some code of initiation to go out and kill someone as you have also brought up.
I also suggested that if if the killer was known to the victims and was a student they would likely have some kind of deviant dark side possibly on the internet. But I think it would be someone closer to the victims, such as in a relationhip. I also was very clear that this would be something the FBI would discover. At this point I think its best to keep an open mind. The info that we have from LE is that a white Elantra was involved and since they haven't located it yet suggest its not someone close to the victims.

You have so many other very informative post though. I've spent hours just trying to read though 6 pages so I just hope the killers are found and brought to justice.
 
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  • #411
It's possible that the calls were regarding the dog, but I can't help but wonder if those calls weren't related to the video where Kaylee asked Maddie what she told Adam. Maybe Kaylee was worried that whatever Maddie told Adam got back to her ex and she was trying clear something up. Might explain why both girls tried to call him. MOO
I also am curious about all the phone use by K while waiting for the food at the grub truck.

 
  • #412
I presume she was taking a picture of the menu for reference later. Ie: someone in the group pics up an order. The person behind her is known to both of them and walks with them. Not a stranger but a friend. It has been discussed many times over. I believe
If you listen to the interaction right in that area when the girls were at that pickup window, that can be heard on that video, via the microphone in the Grub Truck, Kaylee gestures with a finger at those two standing behind them and says something to them. It doesn't sound like a particularly friendly thing, IMO
 
  • #413
is there a media thread for this case? does anyone know where I can find a transcript of the 911 call?
 
  • #414
It’s very creepy, I agree! I’m surprised that their families didn’t do what Ethan’s family did in the first couple of days and make it private (it was public for a couple of days). Hopefully LE is able to get a follower list as of a specific date - I think if there are any insights to be gained from a follower list, it’s more likely to be the followers before the murder than after. Though with the profiles public, I guess someone wouldn’t even need to be a follower to see everything.

For the families to act immediately, they'd need access to the account - most college students are permanently signed in (heck I'm permanently signed in) to Instagram and other social media - on my phone. Because I don't usually go to instagram much on my other devices.

The families do not have those phones. They'd need to initiate some kind of action with Instagram to prove they are the family and, well, the heirs/executors of her estate and now 'own" the account.
 
  • #415
If you listen to the interaction right in that area when the girls were at that pickup window, that can be heard on that video, via the microphone in the Grub Truck, Kaylee gestures with a finger at those two standing behind them and says something to them. It doesn't sound like a particularly friendly thing, IMO

They're joking around. As students do every day of the week and in every context (including the classroom and the hallowed halls of academia).

is there a media thread for this case? does anyone know where I can find a transcript of the 911 call?

There is - in the usual place. There is no release or transcript of the 911 call, AFAIK and I don't believe there ever will be.
 
  • #416
is there a media thread for this case? does anyone know where I can find a transcript of the 911 call?

Do you mean the 911 call? It hasn’t been released.

You should find a link to the media thread on the first page of this thread.
 
  • #417
Jumping ahead to post

K was selling her old car herself on FB. The listing was created with her FB profile.

Not the murder itself, but perhaps a consequence of a hazing is what I think the thinking may be here. IMO. IF there hypothetically was a serious hazing incident, perhaps an unhinged family member sought revenge.

Whether unlikely or not I don't think you can completely discount the murders linked to a sorority or even frat incident. Especially given three of the victims were in those sororities on probation and the fact that Maddie and Xana had both left their sorority.

Source
I haven't seen anything written about Maddie and Xana leaving their sorority. Was this a recent thing? Do you have a link I can read? TIA
 
  • #418
If you listen to the interaction right in that area when the girls were at that pickup window, that can be heard on that video, via the microphone in the Grub Truck, Kaylee gestures with a finger at those two standing behind them and says something to them. It doesn't sound like a particularly friendly thing, IMO
They know each other. It is documented. Even if she took a picture of them. They walk with each other as friends would. There is no creepy person there.
 
  • #419
I haven't seen anything written about Maddie and Xana leaving their sorority. Was this a recent thing? Do you have a link I can read? TIA
Link was in my post.

Check the bulleted list in the article.

Article here.
 
  • #420
There is no evidence that he was found outside his room. What we know about the 911 call seems to say otherwise.

But, we won't know for sure until we know for sure. If he was outside his room, dead, then I find it very strange that the roommates called friends first and not 911.

I wonder, did the killer/s lock the door to those two rooms and that’s why the 2 survivors couldn’t enter the rooms? If each room had a key pad lock, did he change the code when he left, and somehow, he knew the previous code/s to enter in the first place? Were the codes the same for each room and something extremely simple like, 1234?
Or, did he lock the door with a conventional key after he exited the rooms? The key discarded? Did first responders need to break open the doors, used a locksmith?

Just more puzzle pieces I’m trying to figure out.
JMO
 
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