ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #621
I would think that by this time, LEO would have enough information and DNA to identify the gender, race, of the perpetrator. Just wondering why this basic inforinformation has not been released.
I am not sure if that is true in this particular case---only because of the recent party scene going on. There could be an over abundance of stranger DNA in that house. It might take awhile to sort through them all.
 
  • #622
Disagree. It's a specific ask by law enforcement, down to the year and color. The car matters a lot. So much so that LE risked putting it out there publicly. I totally get that it doesn't fit a lot of folks' narratives, and it is therefore minimized and/or discounted entirely, but in actuality it is pretty much the only solid lead LE has disclosed (and rather explicitly).
A perfect house for an attack would be a house that is single story, gives an easy opportunity for the killer to escape if something goes wrong, has multiple escape routes, preferably near canals or creeks or main roads that will allow the killer to easily blend after an attack. This house is the opposite of that. For one, you have only two escape routes, one of which is filled with cameras and I would imagine the route through the back bushes and Walenta Dr is also camera friendly given the amount of houses there. You need to know where specifically you are going not to get caught. It'd be pretty weird being a car or person passing through there at 4:00 in the morning and you'd be the first suspect if you're spotted. And in a small town such as Moscow it wouldn't be that difficult to find you. Also, I would imagine that parking at Walenta Dr would raise quite a few eyebrows from people passing through there and you'd have to be incredibly lucky not to have someone notice or pass through there while you're doing your crime.

The parking behind the house is also an awfully risky spot, albeit it does have a nice vantage point of the house. The reason for that is that cars come and go from there constantly. It is situated next to the apartments in an overall a lively area and active college party scene. You can be easily spotted by someone coming with his headlights on. Then you'd have to assume that a person simply parking his car in Walenta Dr would stand out to others and he'd have to be enormously lucky not have someone pass through there and notice. If he instead decides to pass through Taylor Ave up to King Road then that's even worse since it's even easier to spot you from there. You're going to be walking/driving past a minefield of cameras up to the house.

The house itself is problematic - multiple stories, built like a maze, people living on all three floors, multiple doors and bedrooms on every floor. You kinda have to know what you're doing and where you are because you'd be putting yourself in huge danger at any moment you're in that house. And finally - if something goes on, whether during the attack or someone hears something, the killer is virtually screwed. There's no escape from that area.


I disagree. How many neighbors are in that area? Hundreds? Police do not have time to comb through them, at least not in any deep capacity. It would allow the killer to know the victims, possibly even be acquainted with them, but not be under any severe scrutiny from the police. It also allows him the opportunity to know the area itself, have intimate knowledge of the victim's movements and to have a very easy escape route back to his home. And unless you have footage that would put the perp at the crime scene around that hour, what do you have on him? And even then, so what? He lives in that area. It's the perfect excuse.

Well, they want the car because they don't know who the occupants are, that's the problem. For all we know, they might have already identified the car without even realizing it. Unless you have something to distinguish that specific Elantra from others or the suspect's face or general build, it would be impossible to actually tell whether that is the killer's car or some random civilian. At this point the Elantra itself as evidence might be useless. It might be helpful to narrow down the suspect list if they are 100% convinced it is the killer,'s but the car as evidence of itself is pointless.

I think the closest would be the Setagaya family murders and the Keddie Murders. Unfortunately, the former hasn't been solved, but imo I'm of the belief that it was one of these skateboarders Setagaya's family had beef with. With the Keddie Murders I think it is pretty obvious it was the neighbor and should have been solved if not for the absolute shocking state of police incompetency and possibly corruption.
How about the murder of Bryan Harvey and his family on News Year Day. Harvey, his wife and two young daughters had their throats slit by home invaders in Ruc
SMB

When I do an advanced google search using the phrase "multiple people were stabbed in their home" - minus the word "Moscow", I get numerous returns. I haven't read all the returns but the most common motive seems to be domestic dispute. I'm not surprised.

We need to tighten that up to "stabbed to death" or similar, otherwise, yes, there are hundreds and hundreds of articles over the past 5 years.

I personally am interested in the angle of 4 murders by knife, by 1 or more assailants, in a *private* space, not public (the data I am looking at is divided by LE officials at that level, public v. private - private homes).

Domestic issues are typically family annihilation, with the perp suiciding in many cases (but not always).

Are the dynamics of this class closer to DV? (Intimate partner or close friend?) (I don't think so)

So...anyway, I'm very interested in reading about similar cases (even 3 knife deaths at one private local would be fascinating to look into, in terms of case disposition but also other things).
IMO, The murder of Brian Harvey in Richmond VA on NewYears Day of 2006?. Home invaders slit the throats of Bryan, his wife and two young daughters and than set fire to the home to cover up the murders. There were initially three invaders, but two of them killed the third. These two gentlemen were tried and convicted right away and sentenced to death. Both perps have been executed and are no longer with us. This was such a horrific crime. Harvey was a talented local musician with a pretty, popular wife and two blond little girls. The killers , unbelievably, ended up choosing the house at random because they ended up on the wrong street. Harvey came out for his morning newspaper and that’s when they struck. 3 of the 4 family members were ushered into the basement of their house and were tied to chairs. Some time later, the eldest daughter arrived home from a sleepover. Harvey’s wife was untied to answer the door to retrieve her daughter. The daughter happily ran into the house and down to the basement before the wife could restrain her. The neighbor noticed that Mrs. Harvey was out of sorts and jumpy. Neighbor left. At 1pm, guests arrived for the chili cook-off and found the house up in smoke. This whole family of four was annihilated in the early AM hrs of New Years Day of 2005, 2006? This was an unbelievably chilling murder and arson.
 
  • #623
So I keep trying to find cases that parallel our case here, and the only one that comes close is that of the Grangegorman Killings. Of course, there are big differences, too, but it's a solo perp (Mark Nash) who murdered 2 and left 1 alive by knifing in this small Irish village. So not a quadruple murder, but a double murder and possible intent to kill everyone in the house. Some sexual motivations, too. But what I found interesting is that, after he killed again:



Whew. So this guy went and blended in again (until he didn't and was finally caught after another set of horrific murders, also with a knife).

I am not sure what to call Nash but PsychoKiller comes to mind (he was convicted). Here's the wiki:

Good find! I wasn’t familiar with that.

Sorry I can’t go back & thread properly, but in an earlier comment, you asked about actual hunters involved in killing humans, IIRC. My immediate contribution to that list, in addition to Israel Keyes, is Robert Christian Hansen. For those not familiar, don’t read before bed:
Robert Hansen - Wikipedia
 
  • #624
Does a road continue passed the parking lot, or does it dead end there?
Parking on the north is for the murder house residents and probably their guests. Another lot is to the south for neighbors.
 
  • #625
The question that has been discussed off and on, sometimes more frequently than other times, is: Was any DNA collected at the crime scene not of the victims but potentially of the killer/foreign party?

LE hasn't revealed that information although in other cases it has been revealed during the investigation. Considering the few descriptions we have of the crime scene, it certainly seems like it would be a challenge to collect such DNA in the environment. With that being said, it could take a good bit of time and lab work to get anything definitive.

I wonder if LE has asked anyone to submit their DNA. I haven't heard of that happening so far. Perhaps they didn't retrieve any foreign samples at the crime scene. Maybe they have but don't have any definitive results back as of yet.

I get the vibe that they haven't found any foreign DNA although one or more could have fought back. I could be off base and it could just be a time restraint so far. Either way, it's a pretty big aspect that could open up some doors.
We know one person went in and voluntarily submitted his DNA in an effort to stop online rumors that he is a murderer.
Neighbor Submits DNA to Police
You’re so right about collecting and analyzing DNA in that environment being a challenge.
It stands to reason DNA and fingerprints have been voluntarily submitted by roommates and regular visitors at LE request for the process of elimination. If I were close enough to be interviewed and tested in any way I wouldn’t tell a soul, the last thing I would want is for my name to get out on social media or the news media in the current environment of doxxing and naming people as suspicious or guilty.
They may have DNA from the killer but have to separate it from the victim’s DNA which is a much more complex process, but the flip side of that is if one’s DNA is mixed with the victim’s, that’s some strong evidence they were there during the murders.
Idaho murders: Fox News takes inside look at State Police crime lab as investigation nears one month
“If you have a mixture of multiple individuals’ DNA, that's going to take longer because it takes an expert scientist trained in mixture interpretation to be able to look at that type of a sample”
 
  • #626
That’s a great question. In my experience in my fraternity, yes, we would all turn on a brother who killed a brother. However, we all got along for the most part. And then there is an even stronger level of friendship within the fraternity with your pledge class.

At the risk of sounding corny, the bond that is built while pledging is legit. I would have died for my pledge brothers and they would have for me. I’m not saying that reason, character, right/wrong go out the window… but you do protect each other and you protect the fraternity (I still cannot use the word frat). When I was pledging, an event happened to us where we could have walked away with millions by suing the local and national chapter, but we decided to say nothing and move on. We made that decision together as a pledge class.

If there was a murder and the entire fraternity knew something happened, I think it would have come out quick. But if it was only one or two people that knew something happened (particularly in the same pledge class) it could stay locked up for a long time - highly dependent on the individuals involved and whether protecting a brother was more important then jusHoow tice for 4 individuals.
How about when the victim is the triplet brother of another fraternity brother? Or, more simply, another fraternity member at the same university? To me, MOO, this would lend itself to less protectiveness.
 
  • #627
IMO, The murder of Brian Harvey in Richmond VA on NewYears Day of 2006?. Home invaders slit the throats of Bryan, his wife and two young daughters and than set fire to the home to cover up the murders. There were initially three invaders, but two of them killed the third. These two gentlemen were tried and convicted right away and sentenced to death. Both perps have been executed and are no longer with us. This was such a horrific crime. Harvey was a talented local musician with a pretty, popular wife and two blond little girls. The killers , unbelievably, ended up choosing the house at random because they ended up on the wrong street. Harvey came out for his morning newspaper and that’s when they struck. 3 of the 4 family members were ushered into the basement of their house and were tied to chairs. Some time later, the eldest daughter arrived home from a sleepover. Harvey’s wife was untied to answer the door to retrieve her daughter. The daughter happily ran into the house and down to the basement before the wife could restrain her. The neighbor noticed that Mrs. Harvey was out of sorts and jumpy. Neighbor left. At 1pm, guests arrived for the chili cook-off and found the house up in smoke. This whole family of four was annihilated in the early AM hrs of New Years Day of 2005, 2006? This was an unbelievably chilling murder and arson.
That is gut wrenchingly sad! The randomness and whimsicalness makes these crimes very creepy. What seems so planned might in fact be a last minute decision to kill... however long they might've fantasized out doing it though - so just a time bomb and matter of time.
 
  • #628
Interesting that Xanas dad was repairing locks. Breaking in seems well versed by some perpetrators.

Juetten's wife, Jamielynn, was stabbed 19 times but survived - killer slipped into the Oregon home undetected and took nothing from the property

 
  • #629
How about when the victim is the triplet brother of another fraternity brother? Or, more simply, another fraternity member at the same university? To me, MOO, this would lend itself to less protectiveness.
You would think that, and I don’t completely disagree. I’m Just saying that bonds in a fraternity are often a lot more than guys who hang out and get drunk together - and can be very very strong.

To be clear, im in no way trying to insinuate that I think Sigma Chi (or any fraternity) had anything to do with this. I’m just trying to give context as to how deep those friendships can be - and the code of protection that can exist.
 
  • #630
That is gut wrenchingly sad! The randomness and whimsicalness makes these crimes very creepy. What seems so planned might in fact be a last minute decision to kill... however long they might've fantasized out doing it though - so just a time bomb and matter of time.
New Years Day
 
  • #631
  • #632
How about when the victim is the triplet brother of another fraternity brother? Or, more simply, another fraternity member at the same university? To me, MOO, this would lend itself to less protectiveness.
Yes, the pact is, you don't murder my siblings

This is entirely opinion. I think the girls let Murphy out to potty when they got home and left the kitchen slider open for him to come back in. They proceeded to eat their pasta. When the dog didn't come in after quite awhile they tried to call JdC to see if the dog had gone to visit his other owner. It's 200 feet that Murphy had likely walked dozens of times, and dogs can travel many, many miles over unknown territory to get home. But the dog wasn't with J either; the dog was enjoying some nice friendly dog treats somewhere close by, courtesy of the murderer.
People keep coming up with reasons the door might be left open, but well versed stalkers breakin prepared.
Xanas dad was fixing locks. I dint think this was accident.
Another reason to target the house also, security was poor. The house was easier than many others.
The house was a perverts dream.
 
Last edited:
  • #633
Does a road continue passed the parking lot, or does it dead end there?
IMO, if you are referring to Queen Rd, I believe it dead ends
 
  • #634
Its unbelievable that in 7 weeks that they can not find where E&X were from 9-1:45...
They were a young hot blooded couple in love. My bet is they ducked into his bedroom at the frat, or some other private area, and they cuddled up for awhile. They had been drinking and maybe they took a Power Nap?
 
  • #635
Yes, the pact is, you don't murder my siblings

Fair point - I had not dug into the fraternal connections -
as in who is in what fraternity so I was unaware that the bio-brothers were both Sigma Chi. As I said previously, I don’t think there is a connection between Greek life and the murders. But you’re right with the above - and I think it would be very difficult to keep a murder by a Greek-brother of another Greek-brother quiet from a bio-brother who is also a Greek-brother in same fraternity.
 
  • #636
Police think it was a targetted attack.

Police believe the attack was 'targeted,' but have declined to give their reasoning behind that notion. Captain Roger Lanier said: 'You're going to have to trust us on that at this point because we're not going to release why we think that.'

Authorities are checking if they can link the four students' murders to Oregonian Travis Juetten, 26, who was also stabbed to death with a long knife in the middle of the night last year.


I think the perpetrator goes the males first. I would be looking at his wifes social media, university? Other interests. She was vegan.

The couple were stabbed to death in their bed on 13th at 3am. The wife survived 19 stab wounds.

 
  • #637
I can see it as a possibility.

What if someone couldn't get to sleep on a particular night because of their partying? What if (for instance) that person overslept for a job interview or failed an important exam, and he blamed the occupants of the house? What if his girlfriend left him because they were arguing all the time, and he blamed it on his continually being tired because of is disrupted sleep due to the noise from the party house?

I can see someone committing this crime and feeling totally justified in doing so if the inconsiderate noise from the partying ruined his life.
Just want to share that noise complaints in that general neighborhood are incredibly common.

We’re understandably focused on the noise complaints from that specific house because of a horrific quadruple murder, but that neighborhood in general is noisy.

While it’s not my theory, the above context doesn’t rule out a neighbor driven to mass murder from party noise. I would think, though, there must have been some other trigger on top of noise.

Moo.
 
  • #638
We know one person went in and voluntarily submitted his DNA in an effort to stop online rumors that he is a murderer.
Neighbor Submits DNA to Police
You’re so right about collecting and analyzing DNA in that environment being a challenge.
It stands to reason DNA and fingerprints have been voluntarily submitted by roommates and regular visitors at LE request for the process of elimination. If I were close enough to be interviewed and tested in any way I wouldn’t tell a soul, the last thing I would want is for my name to get out on social media or the news media in the current environment of doxxing and naming people as suspicious or guilty.
They may have DNA from the killer but have to separate it from the victim’s DNA which is a much more complex process, but the flip side of that is if one’s DNA is mixed with the victim’s, that’s some strong evidence they were there during the murders.
Idaho murders: Fox News takes inside look at State Police crime lab as investigation nears one month
“If you have a mixture of multiple individuals’ DNA, that's going to take longer because it takes an expert scientist trained in mixture interpretation to be able to look at that type of a sample”
I appreciate the information. I wasn't aware that someone voluntarily did that.

That could mean that they have a foreign DNA profile from the scene or it could mean that they still are waiting to get conclusive results due to what you have outlined with the difficulties from such a messy scene. Of course, it could mean nothing at all.

I also wouldn't tell anyone if I myself submitted a sample of my DNA.

DNA is the biggest aspect to this case in my opinion. It's hard to imagine the killer getting away with not leaving any. Whatever the situation is, LE isn't telling anybody.
 
  • #639
You're grossly overexaggerating what I said. I said that killers plan for risk, but a serial killer, whether organized or not, would pick the path with the least resistance. Which is why most serial killers target lonely women and even serial killers that are enormously risky in their behavior as the example I gave with ONS, do everything in their power to minimize said risk.

This situation is not the same as that of a serial killer. It's of a killer that invades a complex three stories house in a highly dangerous neighborhood (very active area late at night, very few escape routes, house is in very close distance to other buildings) armed with just a knife. What does this tell you? It tells to me that the killer has a specific grudge with these people to the point that it overrides his safety faculties that we as humans have them genetically instilled in our brains and behavior. Because of this it's very unlikely to me that a serial killer would take that kind of risk instead of attacking a house which a single victim.

And to be honest, Bundy has always been very disorganized and impulsive type of killer. It's not just something that came up later. He'd have been caught almost immediately if this was today. This Moscow, Idaho killer did his homework at the very least and it's obvious that albeit a risky attack, it was planned and not an impulsive attack that Bundy would often do.
I would think this case would be more of a mass killer type than necessarily a serial killer. This case reminds me of the Richard Speck killing of the 8 student nurses in their sorority house. He killed them one by one with a knife and by strangulation. But he did have a gun which he used to scare them into compliance while he tied them each up with torn bed sheets.

He didnt know any of the girls. He had been getting drunk in a cheap motel room which was right across the road and he saw the young pretty girls entering their dormitory that night.

That is the kind of scenario that I can envision in this case too. Someone drunk/high, feeling bloodlust, and watching these young people coming and going from that home, and realising it was a very good layout for a successful home invasion.


 
  • #640
In my opinion only, the perpetrator uses social media to find the perpetrators targets.

Once target information is gleaned, the perpetrator pulls out the Elantra; drives around the targets premises researching the target premises and the targets, planning the attack.

The car is plain jane, not noticed, common as church mice.

AIMOO

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
149
Guests online
2,772
Total visitors
2,921

Forum statistics

Threads
632,198
Messages
18,623,419
Members
243,054
Latest member
DawnHonner
Back
Top