ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[ILOKAL]

Sorry if I missed it, but has this more recent article from People been discussed yet? It interviews the grandfather again.

http://www.people.com/article/social-media-controversy-over-missing-boy

It was discussed yesterday. It's DK's father, not the GGPA that was camping.

 

[Rayemonde]

Is he REALLY blaming those groups for muddying the investigation? Seems like a strange position, especially since LE hasn't offered much. It's not like sleuths and psychics have arrived at the scene to participate. In reality, he has a tip line and has no need to pay attention to SM, IMO, but he obviously does.

IMO Sleuths and psychics *have* arrived at the scene to participate, and have tried to organise and fund their own searches. By amateur sleuthers, I really *don't* think the sheriff is referring to sites like websleuths.

 

[CanManEh]

Anyone know if tim miller has been asked to help here . This seems like something right up his alley for what he does..

 

[Cardinal47]

I don't think I know when they left IF. But they arrived at 9 PMish? Just around sunset that time of year.

IIRC, the sheriff was asked if the family stopped anywhere on the way and the answer was that they stopped on the road for diesel.

It seems that the rumor of the 6 PM sighting of the bawling boy would have to be wrong by the time and the date for it to be on Thurs night on the way to the campsite, and the sheriff would have had to either not known about it or purposefully left it out of his answer.) But, sheesh, possible!

ETA: I should add, the other possibility is that the timeline was wrong--this would not blow me away considering that it has evolved since the first day.

ETA: (again!) I also realized that at the time of the interview when DK brought up this rumor it was not public info that the family had arrived on Thurs. Dunno how that might affect the way he conveyed the rumor. (If he felt more comfortable with people just sticking with the known timeline--for WHATEVER reason--maybe he just said it was Fri.)

Well the reason I thought they might have come up a little earlier on Thursday and went in to town is DeOrr Sr. is a truck driver and a few miles here or there probably doesn't mean a thing to him.

Some men just like to keep moving.

You are right. We all thought they came up on Friday only to learn they came up on Thursday.

So if they left their home at say 5pm. Drove to the campsite. Left and went into town their arrival back at the campsite would be about 9:30.

I donno but something is off with the timeline and it could be that the police don't think we have to know anything.

I have so many ideas on what happened to this little guy you can't imagine. Sigh.

I am really confused on weather or not it was DeOrr up in CA? That one evolves into all kinds of speculation.

The family says no it's not him then the grandpa tells People it is him. Now the family thinks maybe it's him. But nobody can find the Mother or child.

Whew..getting dizzy.

MOO

 

[kammiemc]

Well the reason I thought they might have come up a little earlier on Thursday and went in to town is DeOrr Sr. is a truck driver and a few miles here or there probably doesn't mean a thing to him.

Some men just like to keep moving.

You are right. We all thought they came up on Friday only to learn they came up on Thursday.

So if they left their home at say 5pm. Drove to the campsite. Left and went into town their arrival back at the campsite would be about 9:30.

I donno but something is off with the timeline and it could be that the police don't think we have to know anything.

I have so many ideas on what happened to this little guy you can't imagine. Sigh.

I am really confused on weather or not it was DeOrr up in CA? That one evolves into all kinds of speculation.

The family says no it's not him then the grandpa tells People it is him. Now the family thinks maybe it's him. But nobody can find the Mother or child.

Whew..getting dizzy.

MOO

You could be totally right. I think the sheriff only said the basic info to appease the public and POI's. He might have specifically kept quiet about anything that he didn't want to go into or that he thought might raise alarms, either with the public, or any of the POI's.

 

[Dee10]

July 20th:
After 10 days of searching, diving, and scouring the hillsides, the Sheriff’s Office has decided to redirect the investigation.

source https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice/posts/884467051627459

Aug. 2nd:
Bowerman said the perplexing nature of the case and the fact that no obvious trace of DeOrr has surfaced despite extensive examination of the remote campsite and its environs, including a nearby reservoir, has led to endless speculation but few facts about the boy's fate.

Bowerman said he has ruled out abduction in the case, even though his office continues to field reports of sightings from across the nation and overseas.

Bowerman also believes no harm came to DeOrr from wild animals such as mountain lions that inhabit the area.

The FBI is expected to provide resources that are beyond the financial scope of local law enforcement agencies as well as fresh eyes and expertise to sift through various elements of the investigation, including interviews of the four adults involved in the campout.

source: https://www.facebook.com/east.idahocc/posts/1637056073206594


When I read these statements, the only conclusion I come to is that the investigation is focused on the four adults. Unless one thinks that the sheriff's office has botched the investigation, that is all that's left. One or more of them is somehow involved. The extent and nature of their involvement and the fate of Deorr (including whether he is dead or alive) must be what the FBI is investigating. MOO.

Thank you for this post, I agree. I think something the Sheriff learned caused him to change the direction of the case vs. ruling things out or maybe a combination of the two?

I don't expect a big announcement once the FBI is done. Hopefully, they will provide some direction, especially if the POIs can be ruled out. It seems like it took about two years in the Haleigh Cummings case to change the status of the investigation to homicide.

 

[pepelepolecat]

It seems as though when little Deorr's parents described his boots as "Cowboy Boots" they were, in fact, correct:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_boot

Only speaking for myself, but I never assumed, posted, stated or implied that his parents were incorrect (and neither did I state nor imply they were lying, misleading, etc.). In my mind, it's similar to potato wedges, fries, shoestring potatoes and jojos -- they're all pretty similar to us, but to someone from Idaho, they're distinct types of potato dishes. Same here: Boots are boots are boots, and these were cowboy-style boots. Where we got off-track (and when I say "we," I'm thinking mostly me but I think others also got confused here) is that what I know as cowboy boots aren't really anything like those particular boots, which seem to be classified as Ropers, a specific type of cowboy boot. They're certainly in the style of cowboy boots, but what I've always known as cowboy boots are fairly fitted with a smooth sole, etc. And yes, these come in toddler sizes because as I've previously posted, one of mine had a pair as a toddler.

Again, the parents weren't wrong or incorrect or anything of the sort. I just had something different pictured in my mind, which was why I linked to what I was thinking compared to what was reality (which was also linked and by another poster, picture). And no, in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter to anyone but searchers, the police and those directly involved. They know what they're looking for, and that's what matters in the end.

(And sorry to all those tired of boot talk. I just wanted to clarify, and I will no longer discuss the topic unless something new pops up. Thanks for your patience with me.)

 

[Arnie M]

.

I think the "abduction theory" is kept afloat by family and searchers for emotional reasons more than anything.

At least it offers a bit of hope. It may be a false hope , but the only other option is to coldly conclude he is dead

Must be awful for the parents , grief , fear , pangs of parental guilt , and a bit of hope.

 

[pepelepolecat]

.

I think the "abduction theory" is kept afloat by family and searchers for emotional reasons more than anything.

At least it offers a bit of hope. It may be a false hope , but the only other option is to coldly conclude he is dead

Must be awful for the parents , grief , fear , pangs of parental guilt , and a bit of hope.

I fully agree with you. I think that a glimmer of hope will always stay alive somewhere deep inside the parents of missing children until and unless there is closure. The case of Johnny Gosch comes to mind.

 

[Rayemonde]

(And sorry to all those tired of boot talk. I just wanted to clarify, and I will no longer discuss the topic unless something new pops up. Thanks for your patience with me.)

:aktion: :run: :run:

 

[desert-blue]

.

I think the "abduction theory" is kept afloat by family and searchers for emotional reasons more than anything.

At least it offers a bit of hope. It may be a false hope , but the only other option is to coldly conclude he is dead

Must be awful for the parents , grief , fear , pangs of parental guilt , and a bit of hope.

BBM: Just a thought... what if the parents/PI let go of that theory and came out and said they no longer think he was abducted. Assuming the parents are innocent and GGP was not involved, would that not leave only one option? It seems to me that if they decided to agree with sheriff and rule out abduction, the message would be loud and clear, even if they didn't say another word. Is there a reason that they won't do that? Either they really believe he was abducted or they don't want to place blame on the fourth POI for some reason? At least that how it works out in my mind... I could be off my rocker, though... MOO.

 

[wondering25]

BBM: Just a thought... what if the parents/PI let go of that theory and came out and said they no longer think he was abducted. Assuming the parents are innocent and GGP was not involved, would that not leave only one option? It seems to me that if they decided to agree with sheriff and rule out abduction, the message would be loud and clear, even if they didn't say another word. Is there a reason that they won't do that? Either they really believe he was abducted or they don't want to place blame on the fourth POI for some reason? At least that how it works out in my mind... I could be off my rocker, though... MOO.

IF IR had anything to do with the disappearance of the baby wouldnt THAT be considered an abduction? JMO

 

[kammiemc]

I tend to agree with you. I also don't think that an investigation should give a rat's behind what is going on on SM. That is, unless they are clueless and are looking for insight or tips, but if that's the case, why complain about the free "help"? Being a bit sarcastic here, but I do think the obsession with SM in this case is strange.

It seems that one of the parents-bashing FB pages was started by someone who was also on the ground and organizing searches. I can see how that could potentially be seen by the sheriff as interference. Sure, "sleuth" might be a word the exists within the Proper Name of this site, but go onto any of the investigation chatroom sites, including FB pages about cases (where there is often little to moderation at all) and there is a lot of internet sleuthing going on. Not sure how the sheriff got on anyone's bad side (And I don't mean that he is on YOUR bad side, Desert-Blue!). I honestly can't see a single thing he's done that wasn't top-notch or that I'd think should cast doubt upon his intentions or abilities. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[ILOKAL]

IF IR had anything to do with the disappearance of the baby wouldnt THAT be considered an abduction? JMO

I would think it would be abduction and then some. JMO

 

[desert-blue]

IF IR had anything to do with the disappearance of the baby wouldnt THAT be considered an abduction? JMO

I don't know the answer to that.

ETA: if yes, then that changes things around in my head a little... need some time to think about that....

 

[pepelepolecat]

IF IR had anything to do with the disappearance of the baby wouldnt THAT be considered an abduction? JMO

It might, but it might also fall under the heading of foul play.

 

[ILOKAL]

It seems that one of the parents-bashing FB pages was started by someone who was also on the ground and organizing searches. I can see how that could potentially be seen by the sheriff as interference. Sure, "sleuth" might be a word the exists within the Proper Name of this site, but go onto any of the investigation chatroom sites, including FB pages about cases (where there is often little to moderation at all) and there is a lot of internet sleuthing going on. Not sure how the sheriff got on anyone's bad side (And I don't mean that he is on YOUR bad side, Desert-Blue!). I honestly can't see a single thing he's done that wasn't top-notch or that I'd think should cast doubt upon his intentions or abilities. Maybe I'm missing something.

Why would you read into a discussion that the sheriff is on anybody's bad side. He has made some comments, made some decisions, made adament statements, and has, in some instances, contradicted himself (or so it seems), so those things are going to be discussed and analyzed. I don't know the man and don't know if anyone here does, but I don't think I've read anything that would make me think he is on anyone's bad side. Maybe I've missed something?

 

[desert-blue]

It seems that one of the parents-bashing FB pages was started by someone who was also on the ground and organizing searches. I can see how that could potentially be seen by the sheriff as interference. Sure, "sleuth" might be a word the exists within the Proper Name of this site, but go onto any of the investigation chatroom sites, including FB pages about cases (where there is often little to moderation at all) and there is a lot of internet sleuthing going on. Not sure how the sheriff got on anyone's bad side (And I don't mean that he is on YOUR bad side, Desert-Blue!). I honestly can't see a single thing he's done that wasn't top-notch or that I'd think should cast doubt upon his intentions or abilities. Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm not criticizing the sheriff - I have no reason to believe he's done anything that's substandard. I was just commenting on the general SM obsession with this case.

 

[kammiemc]

I'm not criticizing the sheriff - I have no reason to believe he's done anything that's substandard. I was just commenting on the general SM obsession with this case.

Yes, sorry! I was just adding to the overall convo.
I don't think you were saying that at all!
(Sorry, tried to point that out, probably unclearly.)
I agree that in this case there has been an unusual focus on SM. And I just wanted to say that I agree with some people that the sheriff was not calling out WS in particular.

 

[ReadySet]

Back to the maps, for me. I've spent hours the past few months pouring over the maps of the campground, Leadore Ranger District, Salmon-Challis National Forest, etc. It's interesting for me personally because this is my state; but also I've speculated about different senarios. "So, if someone took Deorr, alive or deceased and they had one hour....two hours...three hours...where could they go?"

Where couldn't they go. Endless areas of forest and brush. Mountain passes and drop offs, sagebrush going on forever, into Montana, across the continental divide, or even into "The Frank." (Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness, the largest contiguous wilderness area in the US, not counting in Alaska.)

My point is that it would be relatively easy, and not take that long, to find a place to hide a little body.

If you have never seen the forests of the mountain west, take another look. It's hard to describe how vast it is.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea/?recid=76098