ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[Cardinal47]

It seems that one of the parents-bashing FB pages was started by someone who was also on the ground and organizing searches. I can see how that could potentially be seen by the sheriff as interference. Sure, "sleuth" might be a word the exists within the Proper Name of this site, but go onto any of the investigation chatroom sites, including FB pages about cases (where there is often little to moderation at all) and there is a lot of internet sleuthing going on. Not sure how the sheriff got on anyone's bad side (And I don't mean that he is on YOUR bad side, Desert-Blue!). I honestly can't see a single thing he's done that wasn't top-notch or that I'd think should cast doubt upon his intentions or abilities. Maybe I'm missing something.

I think the only thing WE are missing is what the sheriff has decided we don't need to know. He is clever and gives just a piece of the pie. If we got to see the whole pie we might see a lot of things differently.

He might answer yes to the question 'were there two people at the campsite' which leads us to believe there were two. But in reality there might have been nine people there. But the sheriff answered our question correctly. There were TWO there. He doesn't correct us and say 'there were nine there'. So we go back and forth on the TWO he said were there.

It's a merry go round and I think this Sheriff has been around the block a time or two. He saw things that didn't look right and called off the search, went another direction and called in the FBI and now we wait.

For what I am not sure because I don't think they will tell us anything. The only clue we might get is if an arrest is made and to tell you the truth if they had hard evidence an arrest would already been made.

Perhaps they are all waiting for a miracle. What I could see happening is an arrest for something else just like with Ron and Misty Cummings if they were pretty sure of what happened but could not prove it. The might just go after their POI in another way.

MOO

 

[Cardinal47]

Back to the maps, for me. I've spent hours the past few months pouring over the maps of the campground, Leadore Ranger District, Salmon-Challis National Forest, etc. It's interesting for me personally because this is my state; but also I've speculated about different senarios. "So, if someone took Deorr, alive or deceased and they had one hour....two hours...three hours...where could they go?"

Where couldn't they go. Endless areas of forest and brush. Mountain passes and drop offs, sagebrush going on forever, into Montana, across the continental divide, or even into "The Frank." (Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness, the largest contiguous wilderness area in the US, not counting in Alaska.)

My point is that it would be relatively easy, and not take that long, to find a place to hide a little body.

If you have never seen the forests of the mountain west, take another look. It's hard to describe how vast it is.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea/?recid=76098

So you might be the one to ask. Can you give me a time table from home to the campground, then to the store and then back to the campground. Say the start time is 5pm. TIA

 

[Rayemonde]

Even if one of the four adults snatched Deorr or killed him, what did they do with him then? Why has no trace of him been found? There was no time for anyone to dispose of a body, if what we've been told is correct. There's been no mention of anybody going off in a vehicle whilst the others were searching in that first hour (except maybe dad to get cell phone signal to make the 911 call, IIRC). There's been no mention of somebody being out of sight for ages whilst the others were searching. Could someone have killed him, hidden the body close-by and then smuggled it out of the place in the confusion once LE arrived and started searching?

 

[byo]

I believe Grandpa D.D. Kunz lives in Montpelier. I have an family obituary from August 23rd, 2015 that says he's from Montpelier.
Would that mean that DeOrr Sr, Jessica and baby DeOrr left for their camping trip from Montpelier instead of Idaho Falls? :thinking:

 

[ILOKAL]

Yes, sorry! I was just adding to the overall convo.
I don't think you were saying that at all!
(Sorry, tried to point that out, probably unclearly.)
I agree that in this case there has been an unusual focus on SM. And I just wanted to say that I agree with some people that the sheriff was not calling out WS in particular.

Just so you KNOW and to make sure you didn't accidentally mis-read, I certainly never said nor came anywhere close to implying that the sheriff was calling out WS in particular, just armchair "sleuths" in general, which WS members are.

 

[ReadySet]

Even if one of the four adults snatched Deorr or killed him, what did they do with him then? Why has no trace of him been found? There was no time for anyone to dispose of a body, if what we've been told is correct. There's been no mention of anybody going off in a vehicle whilst the others were searching in that first hour (except maybe dad to get cell phone signal to make the 911 call, IIRC). There's been no mention of somebody being out of sight for ages whilst the others were searching. Could someone have killed him, hidden the body close-by and then smuggled it out of the place in the confusion once LE arrived and started searching?

Maybe the time table we have been given is not correct? JMO

 

[MJ1960]

I believe Grandpa D.D. Kunz lives in Montpelier. I have an family obituary from August 23rd, 2015 that says he's from Montpelier.
Would that mean that DeOrr Sr, Jessica and baby DeOrr left for their camping trip from Montpelier instead of Idaho Falls? :thinking:

I don't think so, just because Grandpa Kunz (the one interviewed in People) wasn't there. It was Great-Grandpa Mitchell (Jessica's grandfather) that went on the trip.

 

[byo]

I don't think so, just because Grandpa Kunz (the one interviewed in People) wasn't there. It was Great-Grandpa Mitchell (Jessica's grandfather) that went on the trip.

True. However, DeOrr Sr, Jessica and baby DeOrr were living with Grandpa Kunz. They would leave from Montpelier, and then rendez-vous somewhere with gr-Grandpa Walton and IR. :thinking:

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

@ReadySet I'm glad you brought the maps up again and posted that link. I notice it says '5 sites with picnic tables and fire rings'.

So I compared Nate Eaton's video of the campsite/picnic table/fire pit with the below Google image I posted the other day:

Compare with Nate's video:

I don't think they are the same site? Also Deorr Sr said in the first interview that they were camping below the reservoir? Maybe he meant at the level of the of the reservoir?



Looking at the above image the reporter IMO is standing over 200 metres south of the campsite in the Google image at the top of my post yet the reservoir is still at a lot lower level?

I have more to post on this but its getting late here and will post more tomorrow. I'm really confused about this!

 

[kammiemc]

I think the only thing WE are missing is what the sheriff has decided we don't need to know. He is clever and gives just a piece of the pie. If we got to see the whole pie we might see a lot of things differently.

He might answer yes to the question 'were there two people at the campsite' which leads us to believe there were two. But in reality there might have been nine people there. But the sheriff answered our question correctly. There were TWO there. He doesn't correct us and say 'there were nine there'. So we go back and forth on the TWO he said were there.

It's a merry go round and I think this Sheriff has been around the block a time or two. He saw things that didn't look right and called off the search, went another direction and called in the FBI and now we wait.

For what I am not sure because I don't think they will tell us anything. The only clue we might get is if an arrest is made and to tell you the truth if they had hard evidence an arrest would already been made.

Perhaps they are all waiting for a miracle. What I could see happening is an arrest for something else just like with Ron and Misty Cummings if they were pretty sure of what happened but could not prove it. The might just go after their POI in another way.

MOO

I think this is spot on.


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[ReadySet]

So you might be the one to ask. Can you give me a time table from home to the campground, then to the store and then back to the campground. Say the start time is 5pm. TIA

Idaho Falls to campground, about 2 hrs. 30 min. (with no stops) So 7:30pm.

Campground to store and back: 1 hr 20 min., not allowing for doing anything in town. So now at 8:50pm

Putting in time to get diesel, time in town, allowing for traveling with toddler, about 30 min? That takes you to 9:20pm

Just estimating, JMO . We don't know where they went when.

 

[Cardinal47]

Idaho Falls to campground, about 2 hrs. 30 min. (with no stops) So 7:30pm.

Campground to store and back: 1 hr 20 min., not allowing for doing anything in town. So now at 8:50pm

Putting in time to get diesel, time in town, allowing for traveling with toddler, about 30 min? That takes you to 9:20pm

Just estimating, JMO . We don't know where they went when.

Thank you. That takes us to just about 9:30 give or take. How about that Montpelier, Idaho. If they left from there? Closer or farther away?

I appreciate your info on this. I have been map questing and since I am way out of the area I kind of get lost.

TIA

 

[ClaireNC]

@ReadySet I'm glad you brought the maps up again and posted that link. I notice it says '5 sites with picnic tables and fire rings'.

So I compared Nate Eaton's video of the campsite/picnic table/fire pit with the below Google image I posted the other day:

Compare with Nate's video:

I don't think they are the same site? Also Deorr Sr said in the first interview that they were camping below the reservoir? Maybe he meant at the level of the of the reservoir?

View attachment 81899

Looking at the above image the reporter IMO is standing over 200 metres south of the campsite in the Google image at the top of my post yet the reservoir is still at a lot lower level?

I have more to post on this but its getting late here and will post more tomorrow. I'm really confused about this!

They were staying at the campsite with the arrow in the first picture and the video with Nate shows the same location. The third picture is another part of the campground, those vehicles are not parked where the campsite is. The fourth picture was taken from up near the reservoir and does not show the campsite, but shows where the searchers were searching. If the photographer walked down to the creek that is flowing out of the reservoir, turned right and followed the creek for 500 feet or so, they would come to the campsite.

They were camping at the bottom of the reservoir, as in where the water flows out of the lake and into the creek. In this case, the creek flows north, so they were camping on the north end of the creek. I am not sure what you are confused about and it's hard to describe here. There is a hill/ridge on the east side of the reservoir and the photographer in the 4th picture was standing on that hill/ridge.

 

[MJ1960]

True. However, DeOrr Sr, Jessica and baby DeOrr were living with Grandpa Kunz. They would leave from Montpelier, and then rendez-vous somewhere with gr-Grandpa Walton and IR. :thinking:

Oh, wow, I must have missed something. I was initially under the impression that they were living with GGP as JM was his caretaker.

 

[ClaireNC]

TheTruthWillOut, Here is another image for you. This version of the map is tilted so that south is at the top and north is at the bottom. The pink marker is the location of the campsite. You can see that the elevation is higher on the East side of the reservoir, which is the left side in this version of the map. The photographer in your 4th picture above was standing on the lower part of that ridge.

 

[kammiemc]

Thank you. That takes us to just about 9:30 give or take. How about that Montpelier, Idaho. If they left from there? Closer or farther away?

I appreciate your info on this. I have been map questing and since I am way out of the area I kind of get lost.

TIA

Not even slightly a challenge, but just because I have no idea, did the sheriff ever say what time the parents say they left IF, or was it just left at an arrival time at the campsite? A 5PM departure would make sense to me. (Even that has been thought to be quite late to some people here who camp.) I totally agree that since the timeline was not originally known (or at least not shared with us) to start Thurs night, we still might know everything about that night.

ETA: I can say for sure we don't know everything!!! We hardly know anything!

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[TheTruthWillOut]

TheTruthWillOut, Here is another image for you. This version of the map is tilted so that south is at the top and north is at the bottom. The pink marker is the location of the campsite. You can see that the elevation is higher on the East side of the reservoir, which is the left side in this version of the map. The photographer in your 4th picture above was standing on the lower part of that ridge.

View attachment 81900

Thanks Claire. The attachment isn't working for me but it is really late here (3 AM!) and am in work in the morning.

When I've had some sleep I'll come back to this and try and explain better where I'm confused. Which is probably what it is and I hope to clear it up tomorrow!

 

[ClaireNC]

Oh, wow, I must have missed something. I was initially under the impression that they were living with GGP as JM was his caretaker.

I'm also not sure where they were living. I have the impression that they lived with Grandpa Kunz in Montpelier up until spring 2015 but they were living in Idaho Falls when little Deorr disappeared. Not sure if they were living with Great Grandpa (Jessica's grandfather) or not. I seem to remember hearing something about him giving up his house and moving in with TBC. I think it was reported that he and IR used to be neighbors, but were no longer because GGP moved.

 

[ClaireNC]

Idaho Falls to campground, about 2 hrs. 30 min. (with no stops) So 7:30pm.

Campground to store and back: 1 hr 20 min., not allowing for doing anything in town. So now at 8:50pm

Putting in time to get diesel, time in town, allowing for traveling with toddler, about 30 min? That takes you to 9:20pm

Just estimating, JMO . We don't know where they went when.

They did not go to the store on Thursday night, they went Friday morning. The way I understand it is that they left Idaho Falls around 6:30 - 7:00 pm, after getting home from work and getting things packed up for the weekend. They drove about 20-30 miles towards Leadore and stopped for diesel for DK's truck, then drove up to Leadore and down to the campsite. They did not stop in town on the way to the campground and arrived around 9:30.

 

[ClaireNC]

Thanks Claire. The attachment isn't working for me but it is really late here (3 AM!) and am in work in the morning.

When I've had some sleep I'll come back to this and try and explain better where I'm confused. Which is probably what it is and I hope to clear it up tomorrow!

I am not sure why the picture isn't working. (I think WS hiccuped when I was posting it) I just deleted it and uploaded it again, so let me know if you still can't see it.