ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[ILOKAL]

Is there any evidence that someone else wasn't sent up to the campground before LE got there from Salmon or wherever they were patrolling? I know I read (here on Websleuths) that a BLM manager from Leadore was the one who found the cremains dumper. It's feasible, to me, that there is one or more persons in Leadore that the LE can call on when they need immediate help and they can't get there. Rangers, BLM folks, etc. JMO

I asked about rangers previously (a few weeks ago) but I don't recall that anyone responded. I would have thought the head ranger for that portion of the forest and some of his deputies would have been the first ones on the scene.

 

[Cardinal47]

I will tell you that as a native Idahoan, there isn't a month--heck, a week--that goes by that I don't smh about some wacky thing I think my state has done.

But when it comes to rural LE, search and rescue, wilderness searches, mountain rescue, river and winter and high elevation and desert and rough terrain search and rescue and investigation, Idaho is second to none. Real world? We have our share of murders and missing persons. And it's often in the most difficult terrain and circumstances. This is Idaho's "thing." As I've tried to point out before, Idaho is almost all forest and desert. Even the Boise area is desert, it's just irrigated desert. This is not this sheriff's first rodeo. Real world experience? Small town? Have you ever lived in the mountain west? I would have much more confidence in LE who are from eastern Idaho to investigate this case than from someone who has lived in a city all their life!
I don't hesitate to criticize Idaho. But, I have extreme confidence in the way this search and investigation have been handled. I could be wrong. But I doubt it.

I think the sheriff did a good job and would have found DeOrr if he had been there. That's my conclusion on this case and also after reading for the forth time the Sheriffs remarks to the commission about the search.

He just wasn't there folks.

MOO

 

[Cardinal47]

Can anyone tell me where the information about it taking 2 hours for LE to get there comes from? I can't remember reading it in MSM. Is that what the family said on SM or something?

If you think he was never at the campsite, do you think that all 4 people were in on it? If you were trying to cover something up, why take along extra people who could contradict your story?

Re your first question I have read everything from the beginning and that's my own conclusion. Others that gather good information might chime in. By the time the Sheriff and his trusty search dog arrived..about three hours had passed. I will spend some time later seeing if that is in a press release or one of the interviews.

No I don't think four people were 'in on it'. I think two were bamboozled.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/a-closer-look-the-campground-where-deorr-kunz-disappeared/
Deorr was camping with his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of the grandfather. His parents said they left the child with his great-grandfather and when they returned 10 to 15 minutes later, Deorr was gone. The great-grandfather assumed the child was with his parents.

MOO

 

[wondering25]

I think the sheriff did a good job and would have found DeOrr if he had been there. That's my conclusion on this case and also after reading for the forth time the Sheriffs remarks to the commission about the search.

He just wasn't there folks.

MOO

He was there and never made it back from the store in Leadore. That is my story and i am sticking to it. MOO

Anything I write is just my opinion.

 

[ILOKAL]

Re your first question I have read everything from the beginning and that's my own conclusion. Others that gather good information might chime in. By the time the Sheriff and his trusty search dog arrived..about three hours had passed. I will spend some time later seeing if that is in a press release or one of the interviews.

No I don't think four people were 'in on it'. I think two were bamboozled.

MOO

I will try not to violate TOS. If I understand and two were bamboozled that would mean DeOrr never even arrived at Leadore. So no accident took place. Although I think I get how you could suggest that two were bamboozled, I can't get any motive, at all. And without motive, I just don't get it.

 

[kammiemc]

I will tell you that as a native Idahoan, there isn't a month--heck, a week--that goes by that I don't smh about some wacky thing I think my state has done.

But when it comes to rural LE, search and rescue, wilderness searches, mountain rescue, river and winter and high elevation and desert and rough terrain search and rescue and investigation, Idaho is second to none. Real world? We have our share of murders and missing persons. And it's often in the most difficult terrain and circumstances. This is Idaho's "thing." As I've tried to point out before, Idaho is almost all forest and desert. Even the Boise area is desert, it's just irrigated desert. This is not this sheriff's first rodeo. Real world experience? Small town? Have you ever lived in the mountain west? I would have much more confidence in LE who are from eastern Idaho to investigate this case than from someone who has lived in a city all their life!
I don't hesitate to criticize Idaho. But, I have extreme confidence in the way this search and investigation have been handled. I could be wrong. But I doubt it.

I highly doubt you are wrong. The sheriff called in all the right people, including from MT. He realized the limitations of his small team. And when he had reason to believe the case was taking a new direction and named the POI's he enlisted the help of the FBI.

Some people say he did that too late. But do we even know when he reached out to the feds? We know when it was reported that a team was being sent in, but it doesn't mean he waited until that very day to reach out to the them. And I doubt it's like 911 where he calls and the arrive in 5 mins. They might have had to decide if this was an appropriate use of their resources. Anyway, I don't think I know enough about the investigation to be able to gauge the difference in its outcome based in the timing of the FBI coming in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dee10]

In the interview with the PI he talks about why he doesn't believe the parents did anything sinister at 2:14.

He gives he reasoning's about no accidental death & cover-up at 4:50.

[video=youtube;-78P5ayOlRc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78P5ayOlRc[/video]

 

[Dee10]

Further (above link) at 6:10 - Regarding LE, Frank says "they won't share exactly their investigative results.

 

[kammiemc]

He was there and never made it back from the store in Leadore. That is my story and i am sticking to it. MOO

Anything I write is just my opinion.

I honestly have no idea/theory/opinion on what happened to this poor sweetheart and still believe anything is possible--despite what seem pretty clear cues from LE that they believe at least one of the POI's was involved and stranger danger wasn't.

What you are talking about is probably the most disturbing scenario in all respects, IMO. Are you thinking that he was never on the trip in the first place? That would squarely put all blame on the parents. (I can't even let my mind go there at this point, but wherever the evidence eventually points, if we find out, I'll obviously have to accept.)

Because that is pretty hefty speculation, I am just curious as to some of the reasons that lead you to believe this?

If this scenario were to be true (and I am not at all saying that I think it is or even speculate that it is) chances are that it would have been obvious from the get-go. It seems hard for two separate people to make it through 911 calls convincingly if what they are saying is not true, and also difficult to retain consistent stories while being interviewed. Add two more people in the mix whose stories would have to align with what was said on both 911 calls and what was said in ongoing interviews with LE, it just seems impossible not to be discovered.

While this scenario would explain some things, it leaves an equal about of new things that don't make sense. Not saying you're wrong, I just can't process it at this point. (Maybe because it's so heartbreaking, I just can't. I would rather wait for evidence.)

 

[TeaTime]

The Sheriff has pretty much told us what he thinks happened, if we listen. We don't want to hear it, I know I don't. Sheriff has stated in so many words that this is not an abduction, the baby is not in the water and the baby should have been found on the fist search day if he wandered away. He also let us know that the dogs picked up nothing, DeOrr's little boots were not found and the investigation is going in another direction. All physical and behavioral evidence was given over to the FBI and he is waiting for the report which will be 'critical' to the case. Someone up thread asked "where does this leave us?"

Well, if I am not mistaken, the only things he didn't rule out are foul play and accidental death. If so, I think we can figure out where his thoughts are taking him.

However, I prefer abduction because that means there is a chance that the baby will be found alive. I just do not want to believe that all 4 people would lie to cover a murder or accidental death.

I do not think that the child disappeared between Leadore and the campsite after the trip to the store, otherwise GGP would have to be part of a cover up conspiracy. Not only this but it would mean that the child died in the truck en route, the parents stopped and dumped him like garbage and continued to the campsite like nothing happened, then came up with a missing person scam in which GGP and IR agreed to participate. I am not buying this theory.

I will stick with the dogs and the boots which tell me that DeOrr was carried away from the campsite by a person and I will continue to believe he was alive at the time and is still alive now.

 

[neesaki]

I partially agree .... except, he did insert his own personal belief that there was no kidnapping or abduction by wildlife, without proof, yet there's very often no evidence of something like that happening when it does happen. Children just up and seemingly vanish in the wilderness, with the parents and family right there. So by his own suggestion, some one in the group of POI's doesn't appear to be innocent, but yes, he hasn't actually come out and named names.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that I believe the POI's are guilty of anything, just that this is the impression I think LE is giving, JMO. I honestly don't know what to believe and am trying to keep an open mind.

 

[kammiemc]

The Sheriff has pretty much told us what he thinks happened, if we listen. We don't want to hear it, I know I don't. Sheriff has stated in so many words that this is not an abduction, the baby is not in the water and the baby should have been found on the fist search day if he wandered away. He also let us know that the dogs picked up nothing, DeOrr's little boots were not found and the investigation is going in another direction. All physical and behavioral evidence was given over to the FBI and he is waiting for the report which will be 'critical' to the case. Someone up thread asked "where does this leave us?"

Well, if I am not mistaken, the only things he didn't rule out are foul play and accidental death. If so, I think we can figure out where his thoughts are taking him.

However, I prefer abduction because that means there is a chance that the baby will be found alive. I just do not want to believe that all 4 people would lie to cover a murder or accidental death.

I do not think that the child disappeared between Leadore and the campsite after the trip to the store, otherwise GGP would have to be part of a cover up conspiracy. Not only this but it would mean that the child died in the truck en route, the parents stopped and dumped him like garbage and continued to the campsite like nothing happened, then came up with a missing person scam in which GGP and IR agreed to participate. I am not buying this theory.

I will stick with the dogs and the boots which tell me that DeOrr was carried away from the campsite by a person and I will continue to believe he was alive at the time and is still alive now.

I'm of the same mind as you, except I unfortunately don't have hope that he was carried away by a someone and still alive--although I wish it were true and it will be a miracle that would make me jump up and down with joy!!!

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Further (above link) at 6:10 - Regarding LE, Frank says "they won't share exactly their investigative results.

Which I interpret as they gave him squat! I think I read somewhere that his (PI's) calls weren't being returned never mind getting any disclosure.

I further think Sheriff Bowerman decided (or was possibly advised by the FBI) to do the on-video interview because he saw the road the PI was going down.

Up to the point the PI gave his interview the Sheriff was mostly doing the old school hands-off approach to media. Phone calls, emails and press releases.

At least this is my take on all this.

 

[Eileen730]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that I believe the POI's are guilty of anything, just that this is the impression I think LE is giving, JMO. I honestly don't know what to believe and am trying to keep an open mind.

But the POIs hold the answers. Listen to what LE
Is or is not saying. They are telling us alot.

 

[ILOKAL]

Here's a case of an experienced hiker who went missing in Blaine County, Idaho about 1 1/2 weeks ago. The official searches were called off eight days after he went missing. Interestingly, I read on the official facebook page yesterday, about all the acclaim the sheriff is receiving. I haven't researched this and don't know if foul play was ever suspected but it doesn't appear to have been. His vehicle was found at a trail head. No clues were recovered.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/09/22/4000010_blaine-county-sheriff-after-8.html?rh=1

 

[Sillybilly]

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Stop casting aspersions on the loved ones of a missing child unless LE or MSM states they are suspects.

Have whatever thoughts you want but remember .. you never have to eat the words you never said.

 

[neesaki]

Here's a case of an experienced hiker who went missing in Blaine County, Idaho about 1 1/2 weeks ago. The official searches were called off eight days after he went missing. Interestingly, I read on the official facebook page yesterday, about all the acclaim the sheriff is receiving. I haven't researched this and don't know if foul play was ever suspected but it doesn't appear to have been. His vehicle was found at a trail head. No clues were recovered.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/09/22/4000010_blaine-county-sheriff-after-8.html?rh=1

Oh no, yet another one.

 

[giagreen]

I still want to know why a mountain lion couldn't of taken him and was ruled out. From what I've seen and read DeOrr was the perfect size to pounce on. They go for the head area making it so little to no noise would come from him. There really probably wouldn't of been much blood if any considering they would attack then go some where els with him. Its sad to think of but I just don't understand why this possiblity just couldn't be.

 

[ILOKAL]

Oh no, yet another one.

Yes, an adult. Has not been found. I think it might be a good idea to look at other missing people and how those investigations were handled in comparison to little Deorr's.

Here's one in Michigan. Very similar in some respects. A 9-yr old autistic boy, Omarion Humphrey, went missing near Lake Callis. There was an Amber Alert although he was not thought to have been abducted. Search teams searched the lake six times and found nothing. Tracking dogs were unable to track his scent. The searches continued.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/07/dive_teams_search_lake_callis.html

A subsequent search of Lake Callis recovered little "Mars". Autopsy results indicated he had probably been in the lake since the first day he disappeared and no foul play was indicated. Although "Mars" was an at-risk child who was living with foster parents it doesn't appear that any criminal behavior was considered, except that he was unsupervised at the time he disappeared from a splash pad. When asked why LE thought he wasn't found during the previous six searches, the response was sometimes you just miss them (or something similar).

http://grandblancview.mihomepaper.c...arion_Humphrey_likely_in_Lake_Callis_sam.html

 

[relay]

I still want to know why a mountain lion couldn't of taken him and was ruled out. From what I've seen and read DeOrr was the perfect size to pounce on. They go for the head area making it so little to no noise would come from him. There really probably wouldn't of been much blood if any considering they would attack then go some where els with him. Its sad to think of but I just don't understand why this possiblity just couldn't be.

The Sheriff stated nothing has been ruled out. They may think certain scenarios are unlikely, but nothing has been ruled out last I heard.