ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[neesaki]

All this chatter about whether there was direct communication between the parents and GGP such as "watch Little DeOrr while we are gone" is meaningless.

GGP knew he was the only adult at the campsite with the child, he knew the parents walked away because he stated that he thought the child was walking to where the parents were as he disappeared over the bank.

Does it take direct instructions and agreement for someone to watch over a 2 year old when no one else is around? No. Anyone would know to keep an eye on the child. The responsibility arises out of the circumstances even if GGP wasn't directly asked to watch the baby.

Unless GGP wasn't really paying attention or didn't really hear them, and they thought he was paying attention and/or did actually hear what they said. Idk, it's just a thought.

 

[Yvettea]

Really the facts as they are laid out do not point to guilt on the part of the family friend. The parents say they went down to the creek believing DeOrr would be good with grandpa. The grandfather says DeOrr toddled away in the direction of his parents. The friend was also by the creek but further down. So DeOrr was walking toward the Creek, if he went into the creek you would expect they would have found him by now. If he did not he should have encountered his parents in one direction or the family friend in the other direction.

No more than the family friend had to say in his own defense I'm not surprised he's hired an attorney. I think that's wise. What we don't know, have the family implicated him in some way? But from what we've been told he doesn't seem suspect.

 

[Little Ol Me]

From Listening to the Sheriff's interview, it's my impression that GGPA did know he was keeping an eye on D. Jr.

@ about 5.00 Bowerman says, "Grandpa is watching the child, he tells me he looks away momentarily, when he looks back he's gone. He's assumed he's gone over the bank."

So according to what the sheriff says, GGPA didn't see D.Jr. go towards the bank, or over it. He just assumes that he did.

@ 0.48, Bowerman explains, the grandfather assumes he's gone down to them (the parents) because he was within their line of sight, and wasn't too far from the campsite.

Should GGPA have made sure that's where he went?...I think so...but we all make those little mistakes, ..that some times, can end up costing us dearly. I can imagine how horrible he feels.

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video]
(this is, if the sheriff's account is accurate)

 

[kammiemc]

Really the facts as they are laid out do not point to guilt on the part of the family friend. The parents say they went down to the creek believing DeOrr would be good with grandpa. The grandfather says DeOrr toddled away in the direction of his parents. The friend was also by the creek but further down. So DeOrr was walking toward the Creek, if he went into the creek you would expect they would have found him by now. If he did not he should have encountered his parents in one direction or the family friend in the other direction.

No more than the family friend had to say in his own defense I'm not surprised he's hired an attorney. I think that's wise. What we don't know, have the family implicated him in some way? But from what we've been told he doesn't seem suspect.

The parents didn't even mention IR was at the campsite in their interview*, so I don't think we, the public, have any reason to believe the family has implicated IR. (Maybe the family has on social media? I haven't followed SM closely.) If anything, it seems like IR has been downplayed across the board, even by the PI, who chose instead to publicly announce some stuff that either intentionally or inadvertently (my guess is the former) cast suspicion upon GGP.

*Of course, we have no idea if LE told the parents to not mention anything about IR, or vice versa.

 

[kammiemc]

That's been a question of mine regarding little Deorr going over the embankment ... Nate E. brought to light in the video, just how steep that embankment down to the creek really is. If little Deorr had indeed gone over that steep embankment, he would have no doubt fallen / slid all the way to the bottom to the creek bank. That said, in the interview, GGpa stated he thought he had gone up to his parents. (paraphrased). Which makes me wonder what he actually meant as that seems contradictory to him going down the embankment. Hope this is making sense, it's really quite unclear to me.

I share your confusion.

 

[kammiemc]

From Listening to the Sheriff's interview, it's my impression that GGPA did know he was keeping an eye on D. Jr.

@ about 5.00 Bowerman says, "Grandpa is watching the child, he tells me he looks away momentarily, when he looks back he's gone. He's assumed he's gone over the bank."

So according to what the sheriff says, GGPA didn't see D.Jr. go towards the bank, or over it. He just assumes that he did.

@ 0.48, Bowerman explains, the grandfather assumes he's gone down to them (the parents) because he was within their line of sight, and wasn't too far from the campsite.

Should GGPA have made sure that's where he went?...I think so...but we all make those little mistakes, ..that some times, can end up costing us dearly. I can imagine how horrible he feels.

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video]
(this is, if the sheriff's account is accurate)

It is really just devastating if GGP did see the toddler go over the embankment that was so very steep and leading to the creek and didn't do anything. Regardless of whether the parents were somewhere along the creek and he thought the toddler might catch up to them, it would have to mean that GGP did not have the capacity/personality/alertness/judgment/whatever to take care of a child.

So, then, little DeOrr falls down the embankment and.....never seen again. Abducted by the staring man at the creek? Runs like crazy so that he is out of the search area once the search is underway.
(No, and no, I'm thinking.)
I think I need to take a breather.

 

[Yvettea]

That's been a question of mine regarding little Deorr going over the embankment ... Nate E. brought to light in the video, just how steep that embankment down to the creek really is. If little Deorr had indeed gone over that steep embankment, he would have no doubt fallen / slid all the way to the bottom to the creek bank. That said, in the interview, GGpa stated he thought he had gone up to his parents. (paraphrased). Which makes me wonder what he actually meant as that seems contradictory to him going down the embankment. Hope this is making sense, it's really quite unclear to me.

Maybe grandpa didn't realize how steep the embankment really was since he could see the parents by the creek. But I am still bothered by the fact that DeOrr was headed toward rushing water.

 

[kammiemc]

Maybe grandpa didn't realize how steep the embankment really was since he could see the parents by the creek. But I am still bothered by the fact that DeOrr was headed toward rushing water.

It was apparently a longtime fave campground of GGP's. Given that, it would seem that he would have a general idea of the creek, etc. I just can't see it happening that GGP would watch DeOrr go off in the direction of an embankment/creek unless he saw the parents respond to the toddler. (Or unless he was mentally not able to process the situation for some reason.)
But maybe I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, because that seems the responsible thing to do at this point since we're just posters on SM and know nothing really.
Luckily, the FBI/LE doesn't have to worry about that stuff. No one gets the benefit of the doubt--not GGP, not the parents, not family, not friends, not camping buddies. They have the luxury of looking at the evidence for what it is, no matter who it points to (or not), including studying things like inconsistent statements, communication and polygraph results to figure out who is and who is not likely being truthful.
At the very least, even if they can't determine what happened to DeOrr, I hope they can come out and say that they know for certain that X, Y and Z persons were not involved and are no longer considered persons of interest. (I don't know if they care about doing that, but it would be nice for those people, if the FBI does know for certain, if they would clear them so that they don't have this hanging over their heads.)
I looked up the Lisa Irwin case mentioned here last night. It seems it still hasn't been solved. Depressing to think this case could go the same way.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

That said, in the interview, GGpa stated he thought he had gone up to his parents. (paraphrased). Which makes me wonder what he actually meant as that seems contradictory to him going down the embankment. Hope this is making sense, it's really quite unclear to me.

If I remember right, that was a quote from Jessica's mother saying what GGP said happened, so who knows.

 

[ILOKAL]

That's been a question of mine regarding little Deorr going over the embankment ... Nate E. brought to light in the video, just how steep that embankment down to the creek really is. If little Deorr had indeed gone over that steep embankment, he would have no doubt fallen / slid all the way to the bottom to the creek bank. That said, in the interview, GGpa stated he thought he had gone up to his parents. (paraphrased). Which makes me wonder what he actually meant as that seems contradictory to him going down the embankment. Hope this is making sense, it's really quite unclear to me.

That has bothered me too. When I heard the sheriff say that I wondered if it was an expression of sorts that I'm not familiar with since I've never lived in Idaho. I also wondered if the sheriff was just giving his version of what had been told to him and those aren't the exact words that GGPA said (which is likely the case). I think that might actually mean . . . Catch up to his parents . . . But I don't know.

 

[haven71]

At face value, I still don't agree that IR has retained an attorney just in case he is wrongfully accused.

His state of mind at the interview in his "shabby" house (not being snobby, but it looked pretty run down) seemed compromised. I have a hard time believing he would "lawyer up" just in case, and that lawyering up would cost a good bit of money as well.

I do think, however, that hemight have retained an attorney because his "very truthful"-ness might've shed light on what really happened, and he wants himself covered because he did have *some* knowledge of it even though he may not have been directly involved.

JMO.

 

[wondering25]

It is really just devastating if GGP did see the toddler go over the embankment that was so very steep and leading to the creek and didn't do anything. Regardless of whether the parents were somewhere along the creek and he thought the toddler might catch up to them, it would have to mean that GGP did not have the capacity/personality/alertness/judgment/whatever to take care of a child.



So, then, little DeOrr falls down the embankment and.....never seen again. Abducted by the staring man at the creek? Runs like crazy so that he is out of the search area once the search is underway.
(No, and no, I'm thinking.)
I think I need to take a breather.

Throw into your above idea that per the reenactment, grandpa stepped into the trailer for a moment. Just not sure GGP felt any responsibility towards Deorr. Baby took off.. GGP thought he caught up with parents.. he goes into the trailer and the rest is a mystery. JMO

Anything I write is just my opinion.

 

[ILOKAL]

Throw into your above idea that per the reenactment, grandpa stepped into the trailer for a moment. Just not sure GGP felt any responsibility towards Deorr. Baby took off.. GGP thought he caught up with parents.. he goes into the trailer and the rest is a mystery. JMO

Anything I write is just my opinion.

It's possible that something grabbed DeOrr from the embankment area and took off. Mountain Lions are known to hang out around ridge lines near water. As fast as they are, little Deorr would have been gone in an instant without anyone having seen what happened to him. JMO

 

[pepelepolecat]

I just keep wondering why IR has retained a lawyer. In an interview with Sheriff Bowerman, the sheriff says he feels that IR has been "VERY truthful" with him. But when mentioning the parents in that same interview, he did not use the word truthful at all.

Just based on the sheriff's statement, I would've thought IR would be the last one to retain a lawyer, not the ONLY one (so far).

Did anyone other than the PI say that he retained a lawyer?

 

[desert-blue]

Did anyone other than the PI say that he retained a lawyer?

Good point. That info did come from the PI and I haven't seen or heard that anywhere else.

 

[kammiemc]

At face value, I still don't agree that IR has retained an attorney just in case he is wrongfully accused.

His state of mind at the interview in his "shabby" house (not being snobby, but it looked pretty run down) seemed compromised. I have a hard time believing he would "lawyer up" just in case, and that lawyering up would cost a good bit of money as well.

I do think, however, that hemight have retained an attorney because his "very truthful"-ness might've shed light on what really happened, and he wants himself covered because he did have *some* knowledge of it even though he may not have been directly involved.

JMO.

Good points. That is a very diplomatic way of referring to his state of mind! Speaking of....given that it is possible that he might sometimes find himself in that state of mind, perhaps even in a camp trip, and given the short time period that the family and IR were together at the campsite between arrival, sleeping and the family leaving for the store in the AM, I still think there is a chance that he never even saw the toddler for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ILOKAL]

Good points. That is a very diplomatic way of referring to his state of mind! Speaking of....given that it is possible that he might sometimes find himself in that state of mind, perhaps even in a camp trip, and given the short time period that the family and IR were together at the campsite between arrival, sleeping and the family leaving for the store in the AM, I still think there is a chance that he never even saw the toddler for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't remember exactly what he said or what the sheriff has said regarding him actually seeing Deorr there. Was something said about that?

 

[desert-blue]

Did anyone other than the PI say that he retained a lawyer?

Does IR have a job? I haven't heard anything but maybe someone else has.

 

[kammiemc]

I don't remember exactly what he said or what the sheriff has said regarding him actually seeing Deorr there. Was something said about that?

Nothing at all has been said about that by the sheriff or anyone else. While various people have relayed what GGP said, no one has relayed anything that IR has said. And IR wasn't giving up anything in his NE interview. So it's anyone's guess. Anything is possible IMO.

 

[ILOKAL]

Nothing at all has been said about that by the sheriff or anyone else. While various people have relayed what GGP said, no one has relayed anything that IR has said. And IR wasn't giving up anything in his NE interview. So it's anyone's guess. Anything is possible IMO.

Have you or has anyone looked at his FB?