ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #12

[Mickshawn]

I wonder if LE, the FBI and the PI all have active things going on with this case? Or are they all as stumped as we are.

 

[haven71]

Good points. That is a very diplomatic way of referring to his state of mind! Speaking of....given that it is possible that he might sometimes find himself in that state of mind, perhaps even in a camp trip, and given the short time period that the family and IR were together at the campsite between arrival, sleeping and the family leaving for the store in the AM, I still think there is a chance that he never even saw the toddler for sure.


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Also, it's possible that IR took a polygraph and things didn't quite work out in his favor...hence the lawyer.

 

[Rayemonde]

Have you or has anyone looked at his FB?

We're not allowed to sleuth anyone.

 

[ILOKAL]

We're not allowed to sleuth anyone.

So we can't read FB? I thought several here have been reading FB of relatives. I thought sleuthing would be researching someone. I didn't realize just reading their public FB was considered sleuthing.

 

[katydid23]

So we can't read FB? I thought several here have been reading FB of relatives. I thought sleuthing would be researching someone. I didn't realize just reading their public FB was considered sleuthing.

We can read it---we just cant post it or discuss it. :wink:

 

[kammiemc]

Have you or has anyone looked at his FB?

No, is he on FB? I would be impressed! I will check. Though I don't think we can discuss.


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[bessie]

So we can't read FB? I thought several here have been reading FB of relatives. I thought sleuthing would be researching someone. I didn't realize just reading their public FB was considered sleuthing.

<snipped>

Not Allowed
Social media pages that fall in the following categories are OFF LIMITS.

Family members of either a victim or a suspect
Friends of either a victim or a suspect
Most any other individual

Don't link to these pages, nor make reference to information you find on them.
Any exception must first be approved by an administrator.

Check out the rule here -->> Social Media - Facebook, Twitter, etc.

 

[kammiemc]

I wonder if LE, the FBI and the PI all have active things going on with this case? Or are they all as stumped as we are.

Gosh, good question. I hope they have a little more info to go on than us. I am thinking they must if their analysis of the behavioral and physical evidence and resulting report is "critical in this case" as per the sheriff.

We know they would have polygraph results so they have indication of someone might be hiding something, probably cell phone records, so they might be able to tell if someone was or wasn't where they said they were at certain times--if they had their phone with them and it was turned on. They know if everyone gave consistent stories and a consistent timeline since the beginning, they have trained experts on body language and communication to watch interviews (the few media interviews, but I would also hope LE interviews) to get a read on whether anyone is hiding anything. They have physical evidence. No idea what that could prove or disprove depending on what it is, where it was found and what is on it. They might have emails of all the POI's dating back to a certain time, plus statements by their friends, family and coworkers helping determine if anything was off prior to this trip.

So, yeah, they have more to go on than we do. BUT, will it tell them anything or enable them to rule out (or rule in) certain scenarios/people? And even if so, would they have enough to arrest anyone and press charges? No idea, but for some reason I am thinking unlikely, unless remains are found. I really hope I am wrong.


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[Cardinal47]

I wonder if LE, the FBI and the PI all have active things going on with this case? Or are they all as stumped as we are.

I wonder that a lot!

 

[haven71]

I wonder if LE, the FBI and the PI all have active things going on with this case? Or are they all as stumped as we are.

They're surely not as stumped as we are. Questions we have had since the beginning are probably being answered, the timeline hopefully makes more sense, the little details ironed out. We have little to go on. They have a lot (hopefully) so even the questions or discrepancies we discuss here may have little bearing on what happened.

We have limited information, they're lightyears ahead of us. Hopefully the POI's are as cooperative as Sheriff Bowerman makes them out to be. So while the questions we have might have easily been answered long ago and perhaps have little relevance to the case when you look at the big picture (which would be nice to see).

 

[Rayemonde]

I just read an old article about Ben Needham, and this made me think of little DeOrr, who supposedly had a toy car in his pocket when he went missing:

Detectives believe that a small Dinky toy car belonging to Ben could be key to discovering his fate.
They are using specialist scanning equipment to search for signs of buried metal as well as possible human remains...

As well as employing handheld metal detectors, a Home Office specialist has been scanning the fields surrounding the farmhouse with a magnetometer &#8211; a device which can identify iron and steel-based objects buried tens of meters underground.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...police-dig-Dinky-car-leading-missing-Ben.html

 

[1&2&3]

Are the six weeks up that the FBI needed to do their investigating?

From the confusing information we do know, I fear this case is going to turn out like little Lisa Irwin - zilch, nothing to arrest anyone - case unsolved!

My opinions only.

 

[jbelle]

I will start by saying, the last "cottage" I rented had a dishwasher and washer/dryer. That should give an idea about how "outdoorsy" of a gal I am lol.
That is where I was coming from when I first started reading about little Deorr. I didn't really get it.

During the summer I had the opportunity to get away and take a gondola ride up a mountain in Banff. I don't know if the terrain can be compared at all but looking down
I sort of "got it". All these cases I have read on here and elsewhere made a bit more sense. I could see what these search and rescue people are dealing with. What a needle in a hay stack a grown person would be, never mind a little toddler.

We think "if they were there, the dogs/drones/infra red/etc etc would find them" but I see that's often not the case, even when foul play is not involved and no one is actively hiding anyone, often these poor souls aren't found for years and years, if they are even found at all.

I know friend has a record but I know a lot of people in volatile domestic situations and that's an awful far leap to murdering a strangers child so I'm not set on that theory. The parents might be acting strange to some and I am not surprised. They must feel guilty as heck, I would even if I had nothing to do with harming him. I'd feel guilt the rest of my life for going off for however long they went. If they had nothing to do with his disappearance then no punishment will compare to how they must be torturing themselves inside. I can't even imagine.

With a few cases I read on here, it almost seems that the more there to watch the little one the worse it is. I've seen it time and again, so and so thought so and so was watching him and vice versa. Kid slips off.

I still think he wandered off and either was injured, was exposed to elements, hid in a crevice, met a predator animal, or fell in that water. Some people say if it was an animal there would be evidence left or he'd have shouted out, but I sort of could say the same thing about a human predator. Animal attacks might be rare but so are human ones, especially out in the boonies with such a short window. Even if an animal doesn't normally attack humans, those statistics don't mean much to me, how could they? How many two year olds are wandering off alone to be attacked in the forest? Of course there aren't many documented attacks of that nature, doesn't mean it was impossible. I have also seen time and again places/water being searched and searched but the person was right there all along.


I am not refuting foul play by any means, it certainly could have happened. I just don't know any facts that directly point to that yet, I also don't have too many facts that rule out the other situations. I certainly could feel different if I knew more about that EMT bag or if I knew what the FBI report says.

I guess I'm taking a wait and see approach to this one. I don't really have a gut feeling which is strange, I usually do.

 

[TxJan1971]

Rayemonde's post above about the toy car jogged my memory about something I had noted previously but just filed away in the old brain for possible recall later. Now seems as good a time as any to share.

~~~
Indirect Quote by paternal grandpa who wasn't camping
Playing with --- A car

On Thursday, his grandfather told HLN TV that Deorr had been playing with a toy hot wheels car on the afternoon of his disappearance.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07...rch-for-deorr/

Versus

Direct quote from same paternal grandpa who wasn’t camping
truckS in pocket vs playing with A car)

“He had little toy hot wheel trucks in his pocket and nothing fell. They found nothing. It’s like he vanished without a trace. He had to have been abducted. The only good thing about being abducted is it means he’s is still alive,” says Kunz.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07...-fear-abducted

~~~
Makes me wonder whether it was "one toy car" OR "several toy trucks" OR possibly both a car and several trucks were missing? OR …Perhaps a grandpa misspeak? Or a reporter error? Media printing error? One statement wrong the other correct? Both wrong?

My only hope is that IF any such toy(s) were actually missing that searchers or hunters were accurately instructed what to look for. Maybe they were already told and we’re just not privy to that information and that’s okay. The only thing we can do, IMO, is to point out/discuss any discrepancies, theories, thoughts, etc.

(Off the top of my head I can't remember if a toy car or trucks is even mentioned at all on any flier and/or whether a flier was posted somewhere for hunters with any of the toy car/trucks info.)

JMO, IMOO and all that...

 

[giagreen]

I just keep wondering why IR has retained a lawyer. In an interview with Sheriff Bowerman, the sheriff says he feels that IR has been "VERY truthful" with him. But when mentioning the parents in that same interview, he did not use the word truthful at all.

Just based on the sheriff's statement, I would've thought IR would be the last one to retain a lawyer, not the ONLY one (so far).

You know I read an article a few years back. I wanna say it was by a retired fbi agent about how to tell if someone is lying or is guilty. And I remember reading that when someone lawyers up with out being charged it usally means they are innocent. Its only the gulty who need to pretend they are innocent by not getting a lawyer. Innocent people don't care how they look because they know they are innocent.
And it talked about when LE calls you to talk the more willing you are the more guilty you actually look because guilty people want to look innocent and do things they'd think looks innocent. Innocent people know they are innocent and don't care how they look. They just wanna be left alone and to protect them selfs from being falsely accused.
And in this case I could see why IR could be worried about being falsely accused. It makes sense.

Now I am off to go find that article. I think you and others might like it. It was really interesting.

 

[Vail]

You know I read an article a few years back. I wanna say it was by a retired fbi agent about how to tell if someone is lying or is guilty. And I remember reading that when someone lawyers up with out being charged it usally means they are innocent. Its only the gulty who need to pretend they are innocent by not getting a lawyer. Innocent people don't care how they look because they know they are innocent.
And it talked about when LE calls you to talk the more willing you are the more guilty you actually look because guilty people want to look innocent and do things they'd think looks innocent. Innocent people know they are innocent and don't care how they look. They just wanna be left alone and to protect them selfs from being falsely accused.
And in this case I could see why IR could be worried about being falsely accused. It makes sense.

Now I am off to go find that article. I think you and others might like it. It was really interesting.

This is not always true. One example is Jesse Matthew in the Hannah Graham case, he refused to talk, asked for a lawyer immediately, then ran.

 

[giagreen]

This is not always true. One example is Jesse Matthew in the Hannah Graham case, he refused to talk, asked for a lawyer immediately, then ran.

while of course its not always going to be true. Everyone thinks differently. Guess thats why its so important to keep an open mind and look for other indications of guilt or innocence before getting tunnle vision.

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't think there are any methods for detecting lying or guilt that have been shown to work for everyone in all situations... There are just too many variables, and it's a very, very inexact science. Even polygraphs are very inaccurate and the results of them aren't admissible in court in most parts of the world.
I know that LE haven't released the results of the four POI's polygraphs, but honestly it wouldn't affect my opinion one way or another.

 

[kammiemc]

I don't think there are any methods for detecting lying or guilt that have been shown to work for everyone in all situations... There are just too many variables, and it's a very, very inexact science. Even polygraphs are very inaccurate and the results of them aren't admissible in court in most parts of the world.
I know that LE haven't released the results of the four POI's polygraphs, but honestly it wouldn't affect my opinion one way or another.

I think something like failing a polygraph is probably helpful only as an indicator and if it backs up other things like inconsistent statements, etc.


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[ILOKAL]

Are the six weeks up that the FBI needed to do their investigating?

From the confusing information we do know, I fear this case is going to turn out like little Lisa Irwin - zilch, nothing to arrest anyone - case unsolved!

My opinions only.

The six weeks are more than up. It appears as though the FBI came in to assist around the 1st of August so that would make it two months.