Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Charles Vallow, 62, Oct 2019 *Arrests* #65

[Satchie]

And this is why I tend to doubt she was malingering. She did those kinds “institutional” manipulative actions during the times we saw her. And she was a natural. It seems to me she was incapable of interacting without manipulating, flattering, love bombing, trashing someone not in the room, etc. I am inclined to believe she failed to manipulate while she was incompetent, because the legal system and life in institutions is best “played” with some manipulation, even for ethical people.

The kind of manipulation Lori seemed really good at is often seen in institutional settings like jails and hospitals because- it is a good way to get high on the pecking order and get your needs met.

Lori was so good at it she would thrive in a jail like setting as her former self that i saw. She would be the one with the best bunk, the most friends saving her food, who has a guard who lets her use an office phone, or closes an eye to her contraband. She would, of course, be the one most victimized by being institutionalized. The queen of her block or ward. I can’t see her turning that off and keeping it off to put off a trial, when it was her ordinary way of dealing with the world, where the are other options for getting by than playing such games. There really are not too many other options in institutional settings.

I would think she would be incapable of not being manipulative; therefore I think she would be incapable of malingering. I don’t know how to untwist all those negatives; maybe someone can express this convoluted thought better than I.

That said, I don’t know her, and her victims’ survivors do. I know there are people close to this case who think she is/was malingering, and they have more than body cam and pod cast clips and police interviews for data. So I’m probably wrong. Yet, from what of Lori I know and have seen, Lori is way too manipulative to cease manipulating and getting all of its rewards (which are even greater institutionalized) for long.

IMO

As I see it, the specific issue was whether she was capable of assisting in her own defense: in particular, whether she could work with her lawyer to prepare for a trial . So, if there was malingering, IMO it must have been deliberately pretending to her lawyer and psychiatrists that she was not aware she was facing a trial, or didn't understand what a trial was, while secretly knowing perfectly well all about it.

IMO it doesn't really matter if she was playing a part of being too confused/deluded to participate, because that is actually a confused/deluded strategy for trying to escape her situation. There is no escape, except by going through the trial and possibly being found not guilty.

I also think the only manipulating that counts in competency would be her attempts to manipulate her lawyer, her psychiatrists and the judge, and IMO, they're nothing like the many, very gullible people she's encountered in the past. Perhaps for the first time in her life, she's met people who she can't manipulate because they're very experienced in how deal with manipulators.

JMO

 

[indicolite22]

Ah, then my age is showing. Used to be the khaki/blue combo to project guilelessness and innocence. Your combo — navy and ecru — is the Brooks Brothers staple. Downright preppy, not to be confused with preppER.

So far she wore baby blue top/blouse twice in her court appearances with MM. The color choice might have been deliberate.

 

[Laughing]

Ah, then my age is showing. Used to be the khaki/blue combo to project guilelessness and innocence. Your combo — navy and ecru — is the Brooks Brothers staple. Downright preppy, not to be confused with preppER.

Now that's a nice bit of levity added to a horrible situation! Thank you!

(And, my coloring is similar, I have a selection of blue shirts & not much else.)

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Spyderlady]

While looking at pictures of public defender John Thomas, there was something about him that reminded me of CD. I don't know if anybody else noticed that...maybe it's just me.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Yeah. Treatment is like a spa. It is so annoying. The "clients" are gently treated, because they are "sick" and getting "treatment".

The entitlement mentality is epic.

Strange how we see people. I see her as really ugly, like the murders are catching up, all the wrinkles, her natural frown. Yuk.

ETA: If she can read here at Websleuths she must be loving all the comments about her looks and no mention of Tylee and JJ and Charles and Tammy. Maybe she is hoping the jury focuses on her looks as well. But then…maybe they will see the face I see.

 

[indicolite22]

Strange how we see people. I see her as really ugly, like the murders are catching up, all the wrinkles, her natural frown. Yuk.

ETA: If she can read here at Websleuths she must be loving all the comments about her looks and no mention of Tylee and JJ and Charles and Tammy. Maybe she is hoping the jury focuses on her looks as well. But then…maybe they will see the face I see.

Stress and ageing are showing, but it was to be expected. None of us is getting younger. She did claim at some point that she was ageing in reverse.

 

[mickey2942]

Strange how we see people. I see her as really ugly, like the murders are catching up, all the wrinkles, her natural frown. Yuk.

ETA: If she can read here at Websleuths she must be loving all the comments about her looks and no mention of Tylee and JJ and Charles and Tammy. Maybe she is hoping the jury focuses on her looks as well. But then…maybe they will see the face I see.

I cannot wait for the jury to see pictures of her and CD dancing on the beach, contrast with pictures of Tylee, JJ, and Tammy. And I hope that the conspiracy charge in Arizona sticks, because Charles Vallow deserves justice as well.

And I don't think that the defense, "Alex did everything" is going to work well in Idaho.

 

[LinasK]

Stress and ageing are showing, but it was to be expected. None of us is getting younger. She did claim at some point that she was ageing in reverse.

"Ageing in reverse" like Benjamin Button or Portrait of Dorian Gray??? That's hysterical!

 

[ReadySet]

Here's the link that goes with my post yesterday about Nate Eaton's brief interview. Starts about 7:22


Idaho Matters Reporter Roundtable: April 15, 2022

 

[887sMtreme]

As I see it, the specific issue was whether she was capable of assisting in her own defense: in particular, whether she could work with her lawyer to prepare for a trial . So, if there was malingering, IMO it must have been deliberately pretending to her lawyer and psychiatrists that she was not aware she was facing a trial, or didn't understand what a trial was, while secretly knowing perfectly well all about it.

IMO it doesn't really matter if she was playing a part of being too confused/deluded to participate, because that is actually a confused/deluded strategy for trying to escape her situation. There is no escape, except by going through the trial and possibly being found not guilty.

I also think the only manipulating that counts in competency would be her attempts to manipulate her lawyer, her psychiatrists and the judge, and IMO, they're nothing like the many, very gullible people she's encountered in the past. Perhaps for the first time in her life, she's met people who she can't manipulate because they're very experienced in how deal with manipulators.

JMO

Good thinking. I’m leaving open the possibility that she manipulated the wazoo out of Mark Means.

 

[Trebor5591]

Or suicide. Maybe he realized that LVD and CD went to Hawaii with the cash, and AC was left.

That is why the "conspiracy" charge is the key here. AC couldn't kill Tylee and JJ without LVD being in on it. And AC definitely couldn't bury them in CD's yard without CD's knowledge.

The videos of CD and LVD at the storage unit. Pure evil.

Do you have a link to the videos of CD and LVD at the storage unit, please?

 

[LinasK]

Do you have a link to the videos of CD and LVD at the storage unit, please?

It's been aired on TV news and true crime programs that have covered this case. Try YouTube. They showed Lori and a male loading in kids bikes and other stuff.

 

[BeckyF]

Do you have a link to the videos of CD and LVD at the storage unit, please?

Here you go:

 

[pizzaman12]

Here you go:

Kind of crazy to go back and watch stuff from the earlier developments in the case. In reality, most don't drag on this long and with Covid, adding a whole new variable

 

[155etta]

Nate Eaton - Reporter

Tomorrow EastIdahoNews.com will be the pool camera in the Daybell/Vallow hearings. That means we will have one video camera (I'll be running it) and one still photographer inside the courtroom. Over 25 media outlets nationwide have asked for the footage and photos.
Here's how it will work.
9 a.m. - The hearing concerning jury/trial location will begin. We will record the entire thing. At least 3 witnesses are expected to be called. We are not allowed to livestream but when it is over, we will immediately share the footage with other media outlets and on EastIdahoNews.com. Chad Daybell is expected to be in the courtroom - however Lori Vallow Daybell will not. The public can attend but seating is extremely limited and security will be very tight.
1:30 p.m. - Lori Vallow Daybell will be arraigned. The judge will read her charges and she will plead "guilty" or "not guilty" to each charge. Arraignments are usually very short. This is her first court public appearance in over 10 months and first in-person hearing since 2020. Again - the judge is not allowing live-streaming but we will record the entire arraignment and when it is over, the video will be immediately shared with other outlets and on EastIdahoNews.com (along with my FB page and our YouTube channel). The public is also invited but seating is extemely limited.
I have spoken with family members of the victims who are in town, including Kay and Larry Woodcock (JJ Vallow's grandparents) and Annie Cushing (Tylee Ryan's aunt). If they wish to provide a statement/interview after the hearings, we will share those with you.
I'll likely go live before, in-between and after the hearings on my FB page to keep you updated - and of course we'll have complete coverage on EastIdahoNews.com.

 

[Niner]

I'll shorten up both these cases...

Tuesday, April 19th:
*Motions Hearing (to dismiss & change of venue transport) (@ 9am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2019 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) & Tamara “Tammy” Michelle Douglas Daybell (49) (died on Oct. 19, 2019 at her residence in Salem, ID; dob 5/4/70). – for *Chad Guy Daybell (51/now 53) arrested (6/9/20) & indicted (5/25/21) & charged (5/26/21) & arraigned (6/9/21) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy, 49, died 10/19/19): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): 1st degree murder. Count 8 & 9: Insurance Fraud (Two counts of insurance fraud related to 2 different life insurance policies he had on Tammy). Plead not guilty. No bond. DA will seek DP.
Trial set to begin on 1/9/23 with jury selection. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last 10 weeks).
Previous charges, Grand jury indictment & Court info from 6/10/20 thru 3/18/22 reference post #96 here:
Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Charles Vallow, 62, Oct 2019 *Arrests* #65
3/22/22: Judge Boyce denied Chad Daybell’s motion for severance. 3/23/22 Update: State admits a whole fifteen days they have not come up with *any* written response to the Motion to Dismiss filed a day earlier his deadline. Judge gives them two more weeks, and notes they had "a couple of weeks" to do this already but he does give them more time until, no later than Wednesday April 6th. Court gives the date April 20th - deadline for rebuttal by the Defense. Prior says he has had difficulties in getting discovery materials & discussion regarding the grand jury info the defense would like. Court wait for the State response & Defense rebuttal before they make a ruling regarding this.
for more info see posts #103 & 107 here:
Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Charles Vallow, 62, Oct 2019 *Arrests* #65
4/1/22: Order: Approving video/audio record, broadcast or photograph at court proceeding. Next Motion to Dismiss & Motion to Reconsider Transport or Transfer of Venue to Ada County @ 9:00am on 4/19/22. Pretrial conference on 11/9/22 @ 9:30am.
4/15/22 Update: Judge Steven Boyce is NOT allowing the media to livestream the hearings next week. We (East Idaho News) cannot post anything live from the courtroom as things are underway. We will record proceedings & post video after the hearings are over.
*Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 48) – Fremont County: 5/27/21: Found incompetent to stand trial. All hearings put on hold. Competency review hearing was on 6/16/21, but Prosecutor Wood withdraws motion to contest competency. 4/11/22: Found competent to stand trial. Arraignment hearing on 4/19/22.
*Madison County: Pretrial conference hearing on 8/17/21 & trial set to begin on 8/30/21 were both vacated.
ALSO:
*Arraignment Hearing (@ 1:30pm MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2019 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – for *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 48) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted (5/25/21) & arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): Chad only: 1st Degree murder. Count 7: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). DA will seek DP.
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21.
Trial was set to begin on 7/12/21 has been vacated. Vallow was found incompetent to stand trial on 5/27/21. Transferred to mental hospital on 6/24/21. Found competent on 4/1/22 & transferred custody (4/14/22) to the Madison County Detention facility.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 4/1/22 reference post #187 here:
Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Charles Vallow, 62, Oct 2019 *Arrests* #65
4/6/22: 2 Subpoenas issued. 4/6/22: Notice of remote hearing. Status conference hearing on 4/7/22. 4/11/22 Update: District Judge Steven Boyce issued a written order Monday morning saying Vallow Daybell is fit to proceed & ordered that she be released from a Dept. of Health & Welfare facility where she has been undergoing treatment in northern Idaho since last summer. The court orders that the defendant be brought before this court to be arraigned. Further, the order staying the case is hereby lifted. Defendant is to be transferred & remanded to the custody of the Fremont County Sheriff to be transported & brought before this court. The prosecution had motioned for a 30 day continuance for the 4/19 jury transport hearing. John Prior objected, Judge Boyce agreed, and denied the extension. Arraignment hearing on 4/19/22 @ 1pm. 4/11/22 Update: Jim Archibald's Motion to appoint Co-Counsel. He requests John Thomas, who is a public defender in Booneville County & qualified for capital cases. 4/14/22: Records show Vallow is back in custody at the Madison County Detention Center. The booking time was 1am today, 4/14/22.
4/15/22 Update: Judge Steven Boyce is NOT allowing the media to livestream the hearings next week. We (East Idaho News) cannot post anything live from the courtroom as things are underway. We will record proceedings & post video after the hearings are over.
*Madison County: Pretrial conference hearing on 8/17/21 & trial set to begin on 8/30/21 were both vacated.
*Chad Guy Daybell (51/now 53) –Motions hearing on 4/19/22 & pretrial hearing on11/9/22. Trial set to begin on 1/9/23.
*AZ – Indicted (6/24/21) & served (6/29/21) with conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder in the death of former husband Charles Vallow. Maricopa County. No update 4/16.

 

[Onsdag]

Wish I could be there to show support for the victims and their families.
Thanks Nate and everyone else for covering this case so regularly and professionally!

 

[MTW2011]

I wish the State wasn't so laser focused on only this change of venue/jury sequestration issue. In Judge Boyce's recent (04/13/22) Order denying State's Motion to Continue I couldn't help but feel he was a bit frustrated....

It had stated:
"On April 12, 2022, again one week before the hearing, the State filed yet another Motion
to Continue the hearing set for April 19, 2022, citing a concern that co-defendant Lori Norene
Vallow Daybell "has the right to have her opinions on these issues heard ... '' Thereafter, the
Defendant in this case filed an objection, wherein counsel for the Defendant represents that co--
defendant Lori Norene Vallow Daybell's counsel does not wish to have the matter continued.
It has been over six months since the Court ruled on this issue in its October 8, 2021
Memorandum Decision and Order. The Supreme Court has authorized the transfer of trial for
Daybell's case. The Motion to Continue the April 19, 2022 hearing is DENIED."

I understand why he still allowed the hearing to happen today and that he denied Defense's counsel Motion to dismiss the hearing (per tweets from various reporters), but for them to be so concerned about this one issue, which I do acknowledge is a big issue, it means their already small resources have been focused on just this. Not fully preparing for the trial, but preparing for their arguments (again) in written and oral form about this issue that was ruled on back in October. I just hope this issues gets decided soon, so that they can focus on their actual case. We haven't even gotten to the full arguments about disqualifying Smith and Wood yet, though some of that has started behind the scenes. There's just so much ahead still, and I hope they don't continue to focus on this stuff too long after this is ruled on.

 

[ReadySet]

As far as I can tell, Chad's hearing is still underway. There isn't much info. out there. I'm looking at Nate Eaton's twitter. Mostly prosecution witnesses testifying why trial should not be moved to Ada County.

Prosecution has 104 witnesses for trial 1/23.

 

[Niner]

As far as I can tell, Chad's hearing is still underway. There isn't much info. out there. I'm looking at Nate Eaton's twitter. Mostly prosecution witnesses testifying why trial should not be moved to Ada County.

Prosecution has 104 witnesses for trial 1/23.

Can you give me a link to Eaton's twitter please? TIA!