Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #28

[tresir2012]

Deleted dupe.

 

[tresir2012]

Nor would they ask. Their job is to defend the client, not solve crimes.

Even people like LV merit a vigorous defense. It should be an interesting trial.

I thought a client has to be honest and tell everything to their lawyer or they cannot properly defend them. If she doesn't explain where the kids are, they are at a big disadvantage right from the beginning. If she says I am not saying anything about the kids I don't see how they can do their job. MOO.

 

[Drc40]

I was about to quote 20 comments, geez, guess that happens when you’re away from the thread for 24 hours! I was at TopGolf last night with some friends (I know, social distancing right?), one is a lawyer I’ve worked with many times. He had no clue about this site and only saw the Dateline episode because his wife watches. His practice is civil but I got to talking about this case and showed him some of the posts.

He tried to figure out if the bond proceeding counted as a “contested proceeding” under Idaho law...He did a lot of research but couldn’t come up with any crystal clear answer. So he decided to “err on the side of caution” and just grant the motion to disqualify without cause.

My original thought was the judge could slam the gavel and reject the motion instantly. However, when discussing this with my lawyer friend he was not surprised even after I showed him the code section. He said the wording leaves room for argument and he also said there might be case law that would set precedent. The other thing we somewhat laughed about is code often leaves grey areas. This has annoyed me for years. I’ve read mountains of code and always find areas unclear. Makes me wonder if it was written like that on purpose because in Idaho 25 a couple of words would have clarified that section easily.

The other thing he said was with the change in judge the argument for change in venue would be more difficult, do you agree?

Attorneys Webb and Elcox are from the same firm, aren't they? It sounds more like that firm is no longer representing her.

In my jurisdiction, if a partner or principle withdraws from the case the entire firm is out. They don’t allow “free agent” lawyers to operate without the firms consent. That would be the reason for many lawyers to start their own firm.

...the only one who got the impression that Webb and Elcox had differences of opinions with Means?...

I got the same impression but was told it’s likely money. I’ve worked on many cases where multiple firms represented a client with no problems. It’s usually done when one attorney wants to stay involved and not make a referral. You might be surprised at how many lawyers refer cases out. @AZlawyer can probably comment further but I saw it for years. It’s usually because one firm has more resources and time. In this case it might be a combination of both money and disagreements since this came together relatively fast.

Nor would they ask. Their job is to defend the client, not solve crimes....Even people like LV merit a vigorous defense. It should be an interesting trial.

...I thought a client has to be honest and tell everything to their lawyer or they cannot properly defend them...

I’ve seen clients lie to their lawyer repeatedly but never call out the client. I have no place for this but know the tightrope lawyers walk on the subject. Bottom line, lawyers want the truth but don’t press for it.

Thank you.

You won the internet yesterday, Bravo!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

A change of judge normally means LESS of a chance of getting any decision reconsidered—judges are very reluctant to second-guess what another judge has decided in the case.

That said, I’m sure she can ask for reduced bail anytime she says there’s been a change in the relevant circumstances.

And is there any time limit of asking for bail reduction? For example, if more information comes to light before May, from outside the courtroom, can the court increase the bail? Or if something comes to light in Lori's best interests, can she again try to force a reduction?

 

[jjenny]

I thought a client has to be honest and tell everything to their lawyer or they cannot properly defend them. If she doesn't explain where the kids are, they are at a big disadvantage right from the beginning. If she says I am not saying anything about the kids I don't see how they can do their job. MOO.

Nope. Lawyer can't lie in court, so lawyers don't necessarily want to know the truth.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I've been busy fending off the coronavirus horde, what's this about a Dear Chad letter? Mine? Is someone posting it out there on FB?



ABSOLUTELY!! Spot on @Picklepuck , that's the answer! The tire was placed into the unit on Oct 2 AFTER the shooting.
9:14 shooting happens followed by the chase down E Pecos Rd. until BB gets away. Shooter calls, "Hey! You've got to get the tire and seat out of my townhome NOW! I think he saw me and will track down my current address. LE will investigate and find the tire and seat. I'm busted!" Lori panics because she can't move the items by herself. Who does she know who can help, either without asking questions or by keeping confidence? ---> Chad Daybell. They do this a few hours later. Then shooter returns to Rexburg to replace the tire and seat, thinking if he gets questioned, here's the vehicle with the seat and tire, "wasn't me!"

maps
I am just trying to understand your statement "fending off the coronavirus horde" . You guys just had your first case!! I was hoping you would beat out West Virginia... now the only state with no cases.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Thanks, I think who was in the jeep at that time is key to the case, because they were ALL part of a conspiracy to commit murder.

I go back and forth with possibilities... But I am sure the best person to know his exact gym schedule is MBP. And if they had succeeded perhaps part of the plan was to take the four kids back with them. Does anyone know where the kids were at this point. Clearly if BB was at the gym...someone had to be watching them. Surprised we haven't heard more about this.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

He isn't exactly the type who probably wants the media attention of having every single action he does scrutinized by media, LEO. If this goes to trial, it is going to be a circus.

I would take a pass on it too.

I've actually never seen a judge that wimpy in my entire life, and I've got quite a bit of miles behind me.

I feel it was a smooth move. No time to be wasted on whether/whether not he is biased because of the custody case. And given that he was probably heavily invested in having to learn a lot for the custody case--I would feel he IS personally biased, and would rather spend his time with Larry and Kay than Lori and Chad.

 

[watergirl62]

Do we have any more pictures of the Jeep? I only found one. I found a photo of the same model as CVs Jeep and assume this is the factory hard top and back door configuration.

I have a couple of questions re: the more-than-one-person-in-the-vehicle scenario.

1) Does the back window of CVs Jeep look the same as red one? Does it have those clips? Hard to tell from the photo.
2) Does anyone familiar with new Jeep hardtops know if the window can be tilted outward if the tire is off?

I am just curious where a hypothetical person #2 would be located, if you could actually shoot out of the back window without opening the back hatch.

Apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam - I am having a hard time keeping up because... life.

 

[mickey2942]

I thought a client has to be honest and tell everything to their lawyer or they cannot properly defend them. If she doesn't explain where the kids are, they are at a big disadvantage right from the beginning. If she says I am not saying anything about the kids I don't see how they can do their job. MOO.

Casey Anthony. Once she was at trial, she did not say a word. Jose Baez crafted a narrative, that unless the jury knew 100% that CA was guilty, they couldn't convict.

Now, that isn't true. People are allowed to make inferences. INMO, if it had not been a death penalty case, CA would be in prison today.

In this case, the state doesn't have to do much, to prove that LV doesn't support her kids, and abandoned them. In order to refute this, LV would have to testify, which opens up a Pandora's box. She thought that she was so clever. No body, no evidence. Amd she could flip everything on to AC. Now, she can't.

 

[tresir2012]

I go back and forth with possibilities... But I am sure the best person to know his exact gym schedule is MBP. And if they had succeeded perhaps part of the plan was to take the four kids back with them. Does anyone know where the kids were at this point. Clearly if BB was at the gym...someone had to be watching them. Surprised we haven't heard more about this.

I thought he had just handed them over to her before he went to the gym, but I will need to check on that.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Effects of risperidone in overdose.
Acri AA1, Henretig FM.
Author information

Abstract
This study was a 13-month prospective, descriptive case series of risperidone overdose reported by telephone to a regional poison control center (PCC) serving Philadelphia, PA. Patients were seen in local Philadelphia-area emergency departments. The variables examined were medical history, therapeutic use of risperidone, time postingestion, reported coingestants, clinical findings, decontamination and treatment, electrocardiograph results, laboratory data, standard toxicologic screen results, and length of time in hospital. Thirty-one patients (29 adult/adolescent, 2 pediatric) with reported risperidone overdose were identified. Risperidone was the sole ingestant in 15 cases (1 mg to 180 mg). The major observed effects in this group included lethargy (7), spasm/dystonia (3), hypotension (2), tachycardia (6), and dysrhythmia (1). Sixteen cases involved coingestants, including benzodiazepines, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, ethanol, tricyclic antidepressants, lithium, anticonvulsants, diphenhydramine, ibuprofen, and anticholinergic agents. Major effects in these patients included lethargy (10), coma (1), seizure (1), tachycardia (7), bradycardia (1), hypotension (4), and a syndrome of muscle spasms, diaphoresis, and fever. Treatment provided for patients in this study included antiarrhythmics (1), diphenhydramine (2), anticonvulsant (1), vasopressor agent (1), endotracheal intubation/assisted ventilation (5), and supportive care. One patient who coingested imipramine died of medical complications. In the remaining patients, symptoms resolved with 24 hours in the majority, with all patients asymptomatic at 72 hours postingestion. These data show that risperidone toxicity manifests primarily as mild central nervous system effects and reversible neuromuscular and cardiovascular effects.


Makes me wonder about JJ's risperidone meds.

i think we are ALL hungry to talk about which meds or which poisons!!!! I, for one, think this lone bottle of Risperidone has nothing to do with the deaths... it is just one single med that was "hangin around". But I know others here have had other thoughts. Alex hauling hazardous waste, and some others in their wider circle helped with the recipe used. Once they announce what was in Alex's body we all get to go crazy with sleuthing!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tresir2012]

Casey Anthony. Once she was at trial, she did not say a word. Jose Baez crafted a narrative, that unless the jury knew 100% that CA was guilty, they couldn't convict.

Now, that isn't true. People are allowed to make inferences. INMO, if it had not been a death penalty case, CA would be in prison today.

In this case, the state doesn't have to do much, to prove that LV doesn't support her kids, and abandoned them. In order to refute this, LV would have to testify, which opens up a Pandora's box. She thought that she was so clever. No body, no evidence. Amd she could flip everything on to AC. Now, she can't.

I hope you're right the state don't have to do much to prove the lack of support. Just wondering why both sides need another two months before the next court appearance? Perhaps they think more charges may be coming, as we do.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Ideally a good judge will be gender-blind and Male or Female won’t make a bit of difference. But if there are gender dynamics at play here, I’m glad the judge is female. If for no other reason than Lori would probably prefer a male. Plus IMO females aren’t just less likely to be swayed by a hair flip or two, they’re more likely to find it annoying.

I agree so much. We are going to be so into watching her body language with a female judge!

 

[Tortoise]

I go back and forth with possibilities... But I am sure the best person to know his exact gym schedule is MBP. And if they had succeeded perhaps part of the plan was to take the four kids back with them. Does anyone know where the kids were at this point. Clearly if BB was at the gym...someone had to be watching them. Surprised we haven't heard more about this.

Of course I don't know their ages but presumably some of them were old enough to be in school.

This calendar for Gilbert Public Schools might or might not be of relevance, depending on where they were at. https://www.gilbertschools.net/site...taid=7&FileName=2019-2020 School Calendar.pdf

 

[Tortoise]

Do we have any more pictures of the Jeep? I only found one. I found a photo of the same model as CVs Jeep and assume this is the factory hard top and back door configuration.

I have a couple of questions re: the more-than-one-person-in-the-vehicle scenario.

1) Does the back window of CVs Jeep look the same as red one? Does it have those clips? Hard to tell from the photo.
2) Does anyone familiar with new Jeep hardtops know if the window can be tilted outward if the tire is off?

I am just curious where a hypothetical person #2 would be located, if you could actually shoot out of the back window without opening the back hatch.

Apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam - I am having a hard time keeping up because... life.

There was a poster on an earlier thread who owns one and they said the tailgate would have to be opened first to open the rear window.

Link to the discussion
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #14

 

[watergirl62]

I thought a client has to be honest and tell everything to their lawyer or they cannot properly defend them. If she doesn't explain where the kids are, they are at a big disadvantage right from the beginning. If she says I am not saying anything about the kids I don't see how they can do their job. MOO.

"The truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers." -Judge Stan Strickland

I think the same could be said for Ms. Daybell.

Some people don't care about the truth if it interferes with their personal agenda of what they are selling. Pathological liars are kind of fascinating, the lies just materialize and roll right off the tongue! No filters, no brakes.

I am chucking to myself in disbelief at the moment thinking about when Casey Anthony led a visit to Disneyworld to prove that she worked there (did not).

 

[Charlotte65]

It sounded like the disagreement was over the waiver Lori signed where she waived the 14-day requirement for a pre-trial hearing.

Webb was quite clear that he and Means would not be able to come to an agreement on that.

Means was also very clear that the client wanted to sign the waiver.

I can't begin to figure out why one might have been in favor and the other not. Is it clear to anyone else?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Ideally a good judge will be gender-blind and Male or Female won’t make a bit of difference. But if there are gender dynamics at play here, I’m glad the judge is female. If for no other reason than Lori would probably prefer a male. Plus IMO females aren’t just less likely to be swayed by a hair flip or two, they’re more likely to find it annoying.

I agree so much. We are going to be so into watching her body language with a female judge!

Of course I don't know their ages but presumably some of them were old enough to be in school.

This calendar for Gilbert Public Schools might or might not be of relevance, depending on where they were at. https://www.gilbertschools.net/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=72&dataid=7&FileName=2019-2020 School Calendar.pdf

Thank for the calendar.. looks like Oct 2 was nothing special. Are we certain, if her kids were school age, that they were in Gilbert public schools?

 

[Tortoise]

I can't begin to figure out why one might have been in favor and the other not. Is it clear to anyone else?

No it's not clear to me. I can understand how it might benefit the prosecutor if there are going to be additional charges but I don't see why defense should want to cooperate with or assist the state. It kind of makes more sense to me to try to push the state to prove at the soonest opportunity what they have, or release the defendant. Unless he knows already it is a given that the state has enough evidence - then the extra time gives him time to read his law books.

moo