If someone gave Casey a dead Caylee

[InspectorGadget]

With respect, that's wrong. Forensics determined the time of death, with a very small margin either way. Certainly not weeks, not even days, as far as I know. You can always prove them wrong, if you have the training, experience or wherewithal to engage your own team of forensic scientists.

Meantime, I'll rely on the specialists' opinions.

JMHO

I'll leave that to the expert witnesses too but which expert will be the most convincing?

I don't recall the medical examiner giving a time of death but please correct me if it is out there.

 

[cloud]

I'll leave that to the expert witnesses too but which expert will be the most convincing?

I don't recall the medical examiner giving a time of death but please correct me if it is out there.

I do apologise - I thought that was in the examiner's report, but I don't have that at hand. I've just done a quick search and came up with this, which doesn't quite address the point in detail, but it's interesting:

http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/...s-have-now-established-a-time-frame-of-death/

JMHO

 

[InspectorGadget]

No matter which way anyone spins it, there are facts that cannot be dismissed.

1. significant traces of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car.

We don't know what may have been spilt in the trunk to produce chloroform. Bottle of nailvarnish remover? Bleach?

2. searches for chloroform on Casey's PC

I think Casey may have heard someone talking about chloroform and not have known what it was. It may not have been her that did the search.

I think it is unlikely that Casey would be bothered mixing up chloroform - it's not that easy to do and she was too busy on the phone & the net.

3. hair bearing the "death band" (a decomposition artifact) identified as belonging to Caylee, also in the trunk of Casey's car

This is inconclusive. Consistent with but cannot definitely be stated it was from a dead body according to the FBI. The hair was used up in testing. Not sure if it will be admissible.

4. Caylee missing for at least 30 days before her mother was forced to report her missing (otherwise, she might still be "looking" for her in various bars and shopping centres) - sorry - couldn't resist that one

For my theory, I will stick with didn't want to implicate herself, decided to try & find out who did it "on her own, which was stupid".

5. Caylee's body found very near the home (as Casey said: "she's close"...) in a place where she and others used to bury their pets when they were school kids

Apparently it is true that mothers who kill their children often dispose of them close to home. You've got me stumped there!

6. the many versions about "the nanny" - who would leave their child without making sure that "the nanny" actually had a place, an appartment, where her daughter would be safe?? This "nanny"'s appartement had been vacant for months.

She could be lying about that.

7. the inventions about "the nanny" taking Caylee to the beach, to theme parks, on vacation... all on the smell of an oily rag, because she wasn't earning anything - she was stealing from her grandmother and her closest friend to buy clothes (for herself) and groceries to make dinner for TL.

She could be lying about that too.

. her obssession with skulls and bows... well, what do you know? It turned out that Caylee had tape around her mandibula, decorated with a nice heart sticker...

She was making Myspace pages for other people. Skull & bones & macabre stuff like that is in the fashion & could be found on the sites of many young people. Might not be your cup of tea, but nothing incriminating there.

9. her insistance to adopt Caylee out, crushed by a mother who thought she would teach her a lesson by making her take care of child she wasn't ready for. She had to take care of that child if it killed her (my words). Well, it killed the child, instead.

That's a possibility.

10. going back to the shovel... if Casey was so determined to keep the bamboo shoots under control (even though she wasn't living there anymore) to the point that she borrowed a shovel from a neighbour, how come she didn't "break into" her parent's garage to get a shovel? After all, she had no compunction breaking into it to get gas cans...

She didn't break in to get the cans, Tony did. Maybe she wanted to dig up something she had buried there before she left for good.

When it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck..... it usually a pretty fair assumption that it is a duck.

JMHO

Hi Cloud

You really cut out my work for me tonight! All I can say is things are not always what they seem!

 

[InspectorGadget]

O M G !!!!!

How often do you check your trunk for the body or your child, when you finally notice she's not around anymore?? Is this what the defense is going with??!!?? Surely not. It's way beyond daft.

JMHO

My theory is that Casey didn't know Caylee wasn't around any more, that she thought that Cindy had taken Caylee that Monday. Cindy had spoken about getting custody of Caylee.

 

[InspectorGadget]

If you were a mother presented with your dead child, would you CARE what the police might or might not think?????

Get a grip.

JMHO

I would be a basket case. (If I am not already - you obviously think I am!) I would want the person who did it to be caught more than anything else in the world. If the police don't believe what I tell them, they will think it was me. They probably won't believe what I tell them because I have already told a lot of lies. They would then not look for the person who did it.

 

[InspectorGadget]

I do apologise - I thought that was in the examiner's report, but I don't have that at hand. I've just done a quick search and came up with this, which doesn't quite address the point in detail, but it's interesting:

http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/...s-have-now-established-a-time-frame-of-death/

JMHO

Thanks Cloud

I think you will find that OCSO are basing their assumptions on what is in her phone records. They seem to have concentrated most of their resources there which I can understand.

 

[cloud]

We don't know what may have been spilt in the trunk to produce chloroform. Bottle of nailvarnish remover? Bleach?

I think Casey may have heard someone talking about chloroform and not have known what it was. It may not have been her that did the search.

Some of the data recovered from her PC included an ad which stated: Win Her With Chloroform (picture included). I can dig it up for you, but I think you know what I'm referring to. So she had a pretty good idea about chloroform, IMO. I don't know how you would explain away the significant amounts of chloroform found in the trunk of her car, just where Caylee's body is deemed to have been "stored" for a while.

I think it is unlikely that Casey would be bothered mixing up chloroform - it's not that easy to do and she was too busy on the phone & the net.

She wasn't too busy... she had no job, unlike she pretended. And she supposedly had a full-time nanny as well :waitasec:

This is inconclusive. Consistent with but cannot definitely be stated it was from a dead body according to the FBI. The hair was used up in testing. Not sure if it will be admissible.

I rather think it will be.

For my theory, I will stick with didn't want to implicate herself, decided to try & find out who did it "on her own, which was stupid".

It certainly was, but not for the reasons you suggest, IMO. I think she was trying to postpone the innevitable and give herself time to think up any excuse that could let her off the hook. Simple as that.

Apparently it is true that mothers who kill their children often dispose of them close to home. You've got me stumped there!

Gheesh!! Thanks And they do...

She could be lying about that.

She wouldn't lie unless it served her purposes.

She could be lying about that too.

See above.

She was making Myspace pages for other people. Skull & bones & macabre stuff like that is in the fashion & could be found on the sites of many young people. Might not be your cup of tea, but nothing incriminating the

That's why I said is was a fad, and can be dismissed as such. However, it'smore than interesting that her daughter's dead body was found wiuth duct tape around her mouth/nose, with a heart sticker attached to it. Any sexual predator wouldn't bother - her mother could. (and I'm not suggesting thet her mother was a sexual predator).

That's a possibility.

10. going back to the shovel... if Casey was so determined to keep the bamboo shoots under control (even though she wasn't living there anymore) to the point that she borrowed a shovel from a neighbour, how come she didn't "break into" her parent's garage to get a shovel? After all, she had no compunction breaking into it to get gas cans...

She didn't break in to get the cans, Tony did. Maybe she wanted to dig up something she had buried there before she left for good.



Hi Cloud

You really cut out my work for me tonight! All I can say is things are not always what they seem!

Hi Inspector~

Thank you for your thoughtful post. See above.

JMHO

 

[InspectorGadget]

Thanks everybody for helping me to test my theory.

My apologies if it looks like I am hogging this thread, just not in your timezone so its the only way!

I definitely could do with some help here on:

The dogs in the night-time.

Can't think of any reason why my hypothetical sex offender would need to bag the body, unless he had already thought through buying himself some time before the body was discovered.

Still waiting for a doc dump - not holding my breath!

 

[cloud]

My theory is that Casey didn't know Caylee wasn't around any more, that she thought that Cindy had taken Caylee that Monday. Cindy had spoken about getting custody of Caylee.

What sort of mother gives up on her child that easily? Why not call Cindy and ask where her daughter Caylee is, or how she's doing? BTW - where would Cindy keep Caylee, since she was working full-time, and I've not seen any record or deposition that she took Caylee to work with her...

So all these people who care so much about Caylee don't even know or give it a second thought as to where she's at... until.

And even then, it had to be "secret", to a certain extent. Doesn't that strike you as strange behaviour? It does me. I watch one of our two dogs like a hawk, knowing that she may stray, just smelling the roses in our vast garden.

We take them to be groomed, we get our alpacas shorn, do you think we've ever lost any and didn't notice it??

Casey had ONE child. ONE. and she didn't notice she was "missing"?? Please.

What a lot of crock.

JMHO

 

[JBean]

With respect, that's wrong. Forensics determined the time of death, with a very small margin either way. Certainly not weeks, not even days, as far as I know. You can always prove them wrong, if you have the training, experience or wherewithal to engage your own team of forensic scientists.

Meantime, I'll rely on the specialists' opinions.

JMHO

Can you please link to the official report that narrows the time of death in less than a span of days? That would be huge since we have so much information about where she was. thank you.

 

[crucibelle]

No matter which way anyone spins it, there are facts that cannot be dismissed.

1. significant traces of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car

2. searches for chloroform on Casey's PC

3. hair bearing the "death band" (a decomposition artifact) identified as belonging to Caylee, also in the trunk of Casey's car

4. Caylee missing for at least 30 days before her mother was forced to report her missing (otherwise, she might still be "looking" for her in various bars and shopping centres) - sorry - couldn't resist that one

5. Caylee's body found very near the home (as Casey said: "she's close"...) in a place where she and others used to bury their pets when they were school kids

6. the many versions about "the nanny" - who would leave their child without making sure that "the nanny" actually had a place, an appartment, where her daughter would be safe?? This "nanny"'s appartement had been vacant for months.

7. the inventions about "the nanny" taking Caylee to the beach, to theme parks, on vacation... all on the smell of an oily rag, because she wasn't earning anything - she was stealing from her grandmother and her closest friend to buy clothes (for herself) and groceries to make dinner for TL.

8. her obssession with skulls and bows... well, what do you know? It turned out that Caylee had tape around her mandibula, decorated with a nice heart sticker...

9. her insistance to adopt Caylee out, crushed by a mother who thought she would teach her a lesson by making her take care of child she wasn't ready for. She had to take care of that child if it killed her (my words). Well, it killed the child, instead.

10. going back to the shovel... if Casey was so determined to keep the bamboo shoots under control (even though she wasn't living there anymore) to the point that she borrowed a shovel from a neighbour, how come she didn't "break into" her parent's garage to get a shovel? After all, she had no compunction breaking into it to get gas cans...

When it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck..... it usually a pretty fair assumption that it is a duck.

JMHO

Hi, Cloud.. I couldn't agree with you more. That said, I'm a mother who likes macabre art, skulls, etc... so it's a bit disturbing to me that that sort of thing could possibly used against someone in court. In any case, I've wracked my brain in the past, trying to come up with any other logical explanation for Caylee's murder, other than her own mother being responsible... but it all comes back to Casey. I can't shake the feeling that she did have help disposing of the body, however. I have no reason for feeling that way, other than a hunch/strong feeling, whatever.

 

[Lexington]

If someone gave Casey a dead Caylee she would run, not walk, to deposit Caylee in Cindy's arms. She would be giddy with glee at Cindy's pain and watch with sadistic pleasure as Cindy mourned her murdered grandchild. She would then call 911 immediately to report the crime. That is why we know that she is the one and only person guilty of Caylee's murder - she never called at all.

 

[captdj]

No matter which way anyone spins it, there are facts that cannot be dismissed.

1. significant traces of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car

2. searches for chloroform on Casey's PC

3. hair bearing the "death band" (a decomposition artifact) identified as belonging to Caylee, also in the trunk of Casey's car

4. Caylee missing for at least 30 days before her mother was forced to report her missing (otherwise, she might still be "looking" for her in various bars and shopping centres) - sorry - couldn't resist that one

5. Caylee's body found very near the home (as Casey said: "she's close"...) in a place where she and others used to bury their pets when they were school kids

6. the many versions about "the nanny" - who would leave their child without making sure that "the nanny" actually had a place, an appartment, where her daughter would be safe?? This "nanny"'s appartement had been vacant for months.

7. the inventions about "the nanny" taking Caylee to the beach, to theme parks, on vacation... all on the smell of an oily rag, because she wasn't earning anything - she was stealing from her grandmother and her closest friend to buy clothes (for herself) and groceries to make dinner for TL.

8. her obssession with skulls and bows... well, what do you know? It turned out that Caylee had tape around her mandibula, decorated with a nice heart sticker...

9. her insistance to adopt Caylee out, crushed by a mother who thought she would teach her a lesson by making her take care of child she wasn't ready for. She had to take care of that child if it killed her (my words). Well, it killed the child, instead.

10. going back to the shovel... if Casey was so determined to keep the bamboo shoots under control (even though she wasn't living there anymore) to the point that she borrowed a shovel from a neighbour, how come she didn't "break into" her parent's garage to get a shovel? After all, she had no compunction breaking into it to get gas cans...

When it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck..... it usually a pretty fair assumption that it is a duck.

JMHO

Hey and you only listed a few of the high points LOL

 

[cloud]

Can you please link to the official report that narrows the time of death in less than a span of days? That would be huge since we have so much information about where she was. thank you.

Hi JBean,

I'm sorry, but I can't do that. I've already posted about it. That was what I gathered from the ME's report, but I don't know whether my interpretation of it is wrong. What I do know is that they stated that Caylee died in June, which is when she went "missing". I'll try to find more.

Kind regards,
Cloud

 

[cloud]

Hi, Cloud.. I couldn't agree with you more. That said, I'm a mother who likes macabre art, skulls, etc... so it's a bit disturbing to me that that sort of thing could possibly used against someone in court. In any case, I've wracked my brain in the past, trying to come up with any other logical explanation for Caylee's murder, other than her own mother being responsible... but it all comes back to Casey. I can't shake the feeling that she did have help disposing of the body, however. I have no reason for feeling that way, other than a hunch/strong feeling, whatever.

Hi crucibelle,

I apologise about my comments re skulls, etc - I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. I understand it's an art form that people enjoy. I was just thinking about it in the context of how Caylee was finally found.

I agree with you about the help... but can't see who could have done it (help, that is). TL wouldn't have known about it. Her parents - they just seemed much too surprised to find that Caylee was missing in the first place, so that leaves them out, IMO.

Her brother? Maybe. KioMarie or other friends? Maybe. Hard to tell.

Herself? Definitely, IMHO.

JMHO re all the above

 

[cloud]

Can you please link to the official report that narrows the time of death in less than a span of days? That would be huge since we have so much information about where she was. thank you.

This is as close as I can get to it at present, JBean, but I'll keep searching. Meanwhile, here's an excerpt of a transcript:

On Friday, October 24, 2008, a forensic report from Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee confirmed results from a DNA test showing "evidence consistent with decomposition" based on five "key" compounds out of over 400 possible found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car. DNA samples could not confirm whether the source was alive or dead. The only DNA testing by the FBI was limited to 752 base pairs out of 16,569 base pairs (less than 5% of the mitochondrial genome sequence). Whether or not the decomposition is human is still unknown but indicated as a possibility. The process has not been affirmed by a Daubert Test in the courts.[32]



Here's the link to the whole:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caylee_Anthony_homicide#Discovery_and_confirmation_of_death

 

[logicalgirl]

I find it interesting that several have mentioned they think Casey had help disposing of Caylee's body. Can you expand on that? I've been thinking and looking for instances when Casey has actually asked for help with a problem and can't find anything - so it doesn't make sense to me that she would "reach out" and ask for help here.

From my perspective, Casey took what Casey wanted, when she wanted it. She used what was easiest in reach - like Amy's cheques in Amy's car, etc. I think she grabbed the easiest thing out of the garage to bag little Caylee's body, threw it in the easiest place - the trunk of her car, and then drove to the easiest place - just down the street, and used the least effort to just toss her off the edge of the road, without even getting her shoes muddy.

Just a normal day for Casey - using the path of least resistance. (Don't bite me for using that expression, because I do know it doesn't really mean that)

 

[cloud]

Hey and you only listed a few of the high points LOL

Hey! I know, but there's only so much space...

 

[miimaa]

A very important aspect is KC lying about having a job and having a nanny. She invented this long before Caylee disappeared. Any defense would have to explain that.

The only logical thing I get is that she made these lies up to cover her real whereabouts. She lied to her parents and friends. What was she really doing? If she were messing around with a married man that might explain the lies. If she were involved in some illegal activity that might explain the lies.

So if someone did give her a dead child the question is WHO is she protecting? The answer would still be "what was she doing" while she pretended to work and have a nanny. What was she really doing?

 

[captdj]

A very important aspect is KC lying about having a job and having a nanny. She invented this long before Caylee disappeared. Any defense would have to explain that.

The only logical thing I get is that she made these lies up to cover her real whereabouts. She lied to her parents and friends. What was she really doing? If she were messing around with a married man that might explain the lies. If she were involved in some illegal activity that might explain the lies.

So if someone did give her a dead child the question is WHO is she protecting? The answer would still be "what was she doing" while she pretended to work and have a nanny. What was she really doing?

Since Caylee wasnt in daycare and didnt really have a nanny, I quess KC was just hanging out and watching Caylee until June 16th and then she went to just hanging out (as we see from her phone records)