If someone gave Casey a dead Caylee

[miimaa]

Since Caylee wasnt in daycare and didnt really have a nanny, I quess KC was just hanging out and watching Caylee until June 16th and then she went to just hanging out (as we see from her phone records)

... but if she wasn't work why lie to Geo/Cindy about that? Maybe putting on a show for the friends but her parents would have been the support system. Did she pretent to have a job just to have an excuse to not be home? I think so... she could sleep with whoever, party, live the rockstar life but where was Caylee during this? If Geo/Cindy thought KC was working and there was a nanny - where was Caylee being kept?

I think KC is stone cold guilty and trying to come up with some believable story of SODDI is impossible.

 

[RR0004]

... but if she wasn't work why lie to Geo/Cindy about that? Maybe putting on a show for the friends but her parents would have been the support system. Did she pretent to have a job just to have an excuse to not be home? I think so... she could sleep with whoever, party, live the rockstar life but where was Caylee during this? If Geo/Cindy thought KC was working and there was a nanny - where was Caylee being kept?

I think KC is stone cold guilty and trying to come up with some believable story of SODDI is impossible.

Why lie? They wanted Casey to contribute financially for the care of her child. Something she obviously didn't have the intention of doing. They had suspicions for a long time that Casey wasn't gainfully employed. My goodness, George reported that Casey was even stealing from her own child's piggy bank. But, Casey needed an excuse for her nights out and the make-believe job was the answer for that. I don't think she used the nanny alibi unless she needed to be somewhere she couldn't bring Caylee along. The events of the 16th IMO were just a bunch of contrived machinations. Casey was leaving "with purpose". There was no going to drop Caylee off...there was no nanny...there was no job.

 

[miimaa]

Why lie? They wanted Casey to contribute financially for the care of her child. Something she obviously didn't have the intention of doing. They had suspicions for a long time that Casey wasn't gainfully employed. My goodness, George reported that Casey was even stealing from her own child's piggy bank. But, Casey needed an excuse for her nights out and the make-believe job was the answer for that. I don't think she used the nanny alibi unless she needed to be somewhere she couldn't bring Caylee along. The events of the 16th IMO were just a bunch of contrived machinations. Casey was leaving "with purpose". There was no going to drop Caylee off...there was no nanny...there was no job.

Oh I totally agree. I am certain on NO nanny / NO job. I can't see trying to figure out any kind of defense or believable story though that takes into account these specific lies as the opening post asked.

 

[cloud]

Oh I totally agree. I am certain on NO nanny / NO job. I can't see trying to figure out any kind of defense or believable story though that takes into account these specific lies as the opening post asked.

Well, that's just the thing. How can anyone afford a full-time "nanny" when one doesn't have a penny to her name, and steals from family and friends to buy clothes for herself.

I believe this is just one factor the jury will have to deal with, in addition to many, many others.

JMHO

 

[InspectorGadget]

I am proposing that if you're driving around with the body of your one and only child in the trunk, not knowing where she is, or maybe not caring, you wouldn't put the odour down to skunks, without checking it out first.

And if she did, she would have found the body of her own daughter, assuming she didn't know it was there in the first place, which is as likely as me getting a cup of tea made by aliens in case they just happen to drop by.

JMHO

If she thought her mother had Casey she wouldn't. She tried to get her mother that afternoon but Cindy wasn't answering. She would have thought, well good, Mum has Caylee now I can go to Tony's. Maybe she did check the trunk & find her daughter that day, or some later day.

 

[Curious Me]

If she thought her mother had Casey she wouldn't. She tried to get her mother that afternoon but Cindy wasn't answering. She would have thought, well good, Mum has Caylee now I can go to Tony's. Maybe she did check the trunk & find her daughter that day, or some later day.

JMO, she didn't misplace her daughter in the trunk because she had to have put her there. It has been reported by the people that worked with Cindy that Casey often brought in Caylee for Cindy to babysit her last hour or so at work because Casey was "on her way to her job, even had her work badge on". Maybe she was trying to reach Cindy to get her to take Caylee. Maybe Cindy was still mad and wouldn't answer. My guess is when Cindy had Caylee then Casey never called her mother. It was her mother that would call her to come home.

There was that flurry of phone calls on June 16th. Don't know what to make of it. At first, I thought it could've been an accident and she needed help, but no 911 calls for help. Which leads me to wonder if as the day went on, and still no sitter, and big plans with TL if she just felt so desperate for her freedom that she did what she had been thinking about doing for quite some time...got rid of Caylee.

 

[InspectorGadget]

Hello Cloud
I hope I won’t keep you up all night, but I’ve started with this so I’ll have to continue!

1. Some of the data recovered from her PC included an ad which stated: Win Her With Chloroform (picture included). I can dig it up for you, but I think you know what I'm referring to. So she had a pretty good idea about chloroform, IMO. I don't know how you would explain away the significant amounts of chloroform found in the trunk of her car, just where Caylee's body is deemed to have been "stored" for a while.

Yes I do know the picture, but it was on Ricardo's computer. OCSO interviewed him about it.
Some of her friends in the military seem to have had a much better idea about chloroform IMO.
I think there could be numerous explanations for the chloroform, but the idea that Casey obtained the ingredient's & decided to make herself up a quick batch so she could do away with her daughter is implausible.
Chloroform could have been produced by any kind of rotting meat in combination with other materials in the car as well as (OK, I grant you!) a dead body. Even the body farm don’t go as far as to say it is definitely human.

2. She wasn't too busy... she had no job, unlike she pretended. And she supposedly had a full-time nanny as well :

She may not have had a job or a nanny, but whatever she was doing, she was quite busy on the phone and the computer doing it.

3. I rather think it will be.

You could be right.

4. It certainly was, but not for the reasons you suggest, IMO. I think she was trying to postpone the inevitable and give herself time to think up any excuse that could let her off the hook. Simple as that.

That’s possible of course, but there are so many other possibilities...They’re all a bit more complicated though...

5. Gheesh!! Thanks And they do...

Which is why anybody trying to frame her would put the body where it was.

6. She wouldn't lie unless it served her purposes.

She wouldn’t lie unless she thinks it would serve her purposes.

7. See above.

Ditto....

8. That's why I said it was a fad, and can be dismissed as such. However, it's more than interesting that her daughter's dead body was found with duct tape around her mouth/nose, with a heart sticker attached to it. Any sexual predator wouldn't bother - her mother could. (and I'm not suggesting that her mother was a sexual predator).

No heart sticker attached, only someone’s idea of an outline. It isn’t there any more and the FBI could not get a photo of it. I wonder if OCSO have one? It made a good news story though!
I think a sexual predator who had been looking at photo’s of Caylee on Myspace , hearts everywhere, may have liked the idea of a little sticker. I think Casey was very ill advised to put photos of her daughter on the internet. I am horrified at the number of people who do this. Maybe that’s why she deleted them.

9. going back to the shovel... if Casey was so determined to keep the bamboo shoots under control (even though she wasn't living there anymore) to the point that she borrowed a shovel from a neighbour, how come she didn't "break into" her parent's garage to get a shovel? After all, she had no compunction breaking into it to get gas cans...

As she subsequently left the house permanently I surmise that she had something buried there and wanted to dig it up to take with her. Wouldn’t be easy hiding something in that house with a mother who kept it so spick and span.
Tony broke in to get the gascans, and that day 16th June, Tony wasn’t there to help her.
The body wasn’t buried, so I don’t know what connection the shovel could have to the body.
Thanks for your answers Cloud.
I am really “reaching” here LOL....I don’t read the news, only the documents, so I realise there is information out there that I haven’t heard about.
And if my first theory is disproved I will probably look for another one...(forewarned is forearmed!!)

 

[InspectorGadget]

Snipped

FBI forensics laboratory identified on September 30, 2009 that a blood stain in the shape of a young child in the fetal position was found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car.

Thanks for the link Cloud, I will have a look & see if I can find out who wrote that because it is not accurate.

I think you will find that OCSO drew the attention of this supposed outline to the FBI. No blood mentioned at the time. No blood or DNA found in the trunk of the car according to documents released so far.

 

[InspectorGadget]

I find it interesting that several have mentioned they think Casey had help disposing of Caylee's body. Can you expand on that? I've been thinking and looking for instances when Casey has actually asked for help with a problem and can't find anything - so it doesn't make sense to me that she would "reach out" and ask for help here.

From my perspective, Casey took what Casey wanted, when she wanted it. She used what was easiest in reach - like Amy's cheques in Amy's car, etc. I think she grabbed the easiest thing out of the garage to bag little Caylee's body, threw it in the easiest place - the trunk of her car, and then drove to the easiest place - just down the street, and used the least effort to just toss her off the edge of the road, without even getting her shoes muddy.

Just a normal day for Casey - using the path of least resistance. (Don't bite me for using that expression, because I do know it doesn't really mean that)

You are right. Some people just will not reach out for help until it is too late and their situation is desperate.

She did reach out for help from Amy who paid for her car to be towed, and helped her go and buy a new gascan.

 

[InspectorGadget]

Hey! I know, but there's only so much space...

Plenty of space here at Websleuths LOL!

 

[InspectorGadget]

A very important aspect is KC lying about having a job and having a nanny. She invented this long before Caylee disappeared. Any defense would have to explain that.

The only logical thing I get is that she made these lies up to cover her real whereabouts. She lied to her parents and friends. What was she really doing? If she were messing around with a married man that might explain the lies. If she were involved in some illegal activity that might explain the lies.

So if someone did give her a dead child the question is WHO is she protecting? The answer would still be "what was she doing" while she pretended to work and have a nanny. What was she really doing?

Hi Miimaa

There has to be some explanation doesn't there? I wish I knew what it was!

 

[InspectorGadget]

JMO, she didn't misplace her daughter in the trunk because she had to have put her there. It has been reported by the people that worked with Cindy that Casey often brought in Caylee for Cindy to babysit her last hour or so at work because Casey was "on her way to her job, even had her work badge on". Maybe she was trying to reach Cindy to get her to take Caylee. Maybe Cindy was still mad and wouldn't answer. My guess is when Cindy had Caylee then Casey never called her mother. It was her mother that would call her to come home.

There was that flurry of phone calls on June 16th. Don't know what to make of it. At first, I thought it could've been an accident and she needed help, but no 911 calls for help. Which leads me to wonder if as the day went on, and still no sitter, and big plans with TL if she just felt so desperate for her freedom that she did what she had been thinking about doing for quite some time...got rid of Caylee.

That could be, but she couldn't get Cindy at Gentiva or on her mobile. Maybe Cindy wasn't at Gentiva. Maybe Casey assumed or was told that Cindy wasn't at Gentiva even though she was. Casey could very well have thought that Cindy had Caylee.

 

[JBean]

This is as close as I can get to it at present, JBean, but I'll keep searching. Meanwhile, here's an excerpt of a transcript:

On Friday, October 24, 2008, a forensic report from Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee confirmed results from a DNA test showing "evidence consistent with decomposition" based on five "key" compounds out of over 400 possible found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car. DNA

Here's the link to the whole:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caylee_Anthony_homicide#Discovery_and_confirmation_of_death

I really appreciate you looking this all up. But what we need are the actual reports. That wiki article,(which I had to cut due to copyright) was inaccurate.

I do not think a time of death in any period shorter than a span of days has been determined. But so much information has been released that if there is an expert report as you said in your original post that determines the time of death, I would like to read it.
Thanks Cloud, I don't intend this post to sound snarky, so please don't take it that way. I think there is a good idea of when she died, but I think is about a week or so span?

but i think we are way offtopic LOL.

 

[JBean]

Snipped

Thanks for the link Cloud, I will have a look & see if I can find out who wrote that because it is not accurate.

I think you will find that OCSO drew the attention of this supposed outline to the FBI. No blood mentioned at the time. No blood or DNA found in the trunk of the car according to documents released so far.

I think it was just an unsubstantiated speculation on someone's part:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4381264&postcount=494"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child in the fetal position.[/ame]

 

[miimaa]

If she thought her mother had Casey she wouldn't. She tried to get her mother that afternoon but Cindy wasn't answering. She would have thought, well good, Mum has Caylee now I can go to Tony's. Maybe she did check the trunk & find her daughter that day, or some later day.

Ummmm.... how, when, why would Cindy have gotten Caylee in this hypothetical situation? Are you saying only that ONE PARTICULAR afternoon? What about the other 30 days?

 

[miimaa]

That could be, but she couldn't get Cindy at Gentiva or on her mobile. Maybe Cindy wasn't at Gentiva. Maybe Casey assumed or was told that Cindy wasn't at Gentiva even though she was. Casey could very well have thought that Cindy had Caylee.

This makes no sense. If Casey thought that... then she would certainly know how Caylee came to be with Cindy. Are we to believe that for an entire month KC did not worry about Caylee because she thought Cindy had her? No way! KC was traveling for work [gaggaggaggag], telling friends Caylee was at theme parks with the nanny, avoiding her mother's phone calls, making up lies about Zanny having a car accident, sneaking around the house getting gas cans and shovels.

In furthering your theory -- how would KC taking LE to Universal Studios to her 'office' fit in? The vacant apt she claimed to drop Caylee off at? Taking by apt complex she claimed Zanny's mother lived at? Claiming to know Zanny's sister? All the lies KC told?

 

[InspectorGadget]

I think it was just an unsubstantiated speculation on someone's part:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child in the fetal position.

Hi JBean

I absolutely do not blame Websleuths or even Wikipedia (which anyone can edit) for repeating this misinformation or dare I say it "mistruth". Many people have great faith in what they hear on the News, so I can't blame the public for posting rumours & speculation. Possible blood in car = Great headline.
I think the media have been particularly irresponsible in the way they have reported this case, but I am glad to see that the moderators here seem to have the facts even if the believe Casey will be found guilty.

 

[RR0004]

JMO, she didn't misplace her daughter in the trunk because she had to have put her there. It has been reported by the people that worked with Cindy that Casey often brought in Caylee for Cindy to babysit her last hour or so at work because Casey was "on her way to her job, even had her work badge on". Maybe she was trying to reach Cindy to get her to take Caylee. Maybe Cindy was still mad and wouldn't answer. My guess is when Cindy had Caylee then Casey never called her mother. It was her mother that would call her to come home.

There was that flurry of phone calls on June 16th. Don't know what to make of it. At first, I thought it could've been an accident and she needed help, but no 911 calls for help. Which leads me to wonder if as the day went on, and still no sitter, and big plans with TL if she just felt so desperate for her freedom that she did what she had been thinking about doing for quite some time...got rid of Caylee.

Just curious...are we also supposed to forget that Cindy left for work before Casey got up? That Cindy places Casey with Caylee that morning? That George saw them leave @1pm?

 

[RR0004]

That could be, but she couldn't get Cindy at Gentiva or on her mobile. Maybe Cindy wasn't at Gentiva. Maybe Casey assumed or was told that Cindy wasn't at Gentiva even though she was. Casey could very well have thought that Cindy had Caylee.

How, may I ask?

 

[RR0004]

Snipped

Thanks for the link Cloud, I will have a look & see if I can find out who wrote that because it is not accurate.

I think you will find that OCSO drew the attention of this supposed outline to the FBI. No blood mentioned at the time. No blood or DNA found in the trunk of the car according to documents released so far.

George pointed out the basketball size stain as well IIRC.