IL IL - Debbie Fijan, 10, DuPage County, 11 Feb 1966 - #2

[Cubby]

Welcome to Websleuths WC-Adhoc !!

We are glad to have you here and glad to have your interest in Debbies case.

First, let me address the idea regarding the cross. There may have been some confusion. I originally thought about a cross, but for where her remains were found. After giving it some additonal thought it felt wrong since those white crosses are for accident victims. We had thought about a tree in front of the school with a plaque that read In Memory of Debbie Fijan 1966 or something like that before I had realized she only attended Benjaman school for 1.5 years. I'm not sure what her family would think or what the school would think so I left it....... And yes, your post was perfectly fine and appropriate. I appreciate your thoughts.

I walked the forest preserve back in the spring and walked along the path to what you see as a big pile of rubble. It is actually a huge pile of gravel, stones, and rocks of all sizes. Mostly small but some the size of 2-4 softballs. The north side of it is sloped and seeing it upclose you can tell it was bulldozed into the current pile. I don't have any idea what the county has it for or what they might use it for.

I don't know if you have driven down Fair Oaks recently, but driving North on Fair Oaks past the drive into the forest preserve there is still one home on the west side of Fair Oaks. The brick (front only) ranch home is at the intersection of Fair Oaks and Big Horn Trail. If one looks at google maps there is a street view for this intersection. (For the non locals: I'm sure Big Horn Trail and most of the subdivisions and Rds east of Fair Oaks were not there in 1966. These are all developments from the 70's 80's and newer. ) I'm 99% sure that was the home LS grew up in unless there was another home on the property which was torn down. Early in the thread I posted the plat map and can't really tell for sure.

I'm glad our posts helped you and your friend clarify some of the information between Debbie and Sally's murders.

The current school may have been built in 1964 but I found somewhere, can't find it again, that District 25 and possibly Benjaman school is one of the oldest school districts in DuPage County.

It is so nice to have more locals here at WS and Debbies thread.

I would love your help with the pictures. I will post a second post with my thoughts on idea's for pictures. Thank you!

Welcome again and so glad to have you here!

Cubby

 

[Cubby]

I was doing a search and found a post by LS's wife's sister from WI. What I found interesting was that it was an obit for her husband who also left the brotherhood, became an athiest, wrote a book about it and changed his name to Smith. Can I post the link to it on here? It mentions LS as a brother in law. Just a funny coindidence?

I had seen that.... I would probably not link it only because we can't tie that to Debbies case. We try to respect peoples privacy by not linking everything we can find about people.... and believe me, we have some great sleuths here who find just about everything imaginable. If you ever did find something which we could tie to the case, links are ok. WS does not allow direct copy and paste from social networking sites or blogs but we can paraphrase and link to the site.

hth
Cubby

 

[WC-AdHoc]

Cubby,
I looked at the older maps 1951,55 & 59. Why is the LS family farm under another name? Don't know if I should post the name here. Did they (LS) live somewhere else at this time?
Thanks........

 

[Cubby]

-Front and back of Benjaman School.
-St. Charles west towards Fair Oaks from front of school. A few shots from here so one can gage the distance and hill going up when looking at Fair Oaks.
-Retention pond directly across from school and parking lot across from school. This pond was searched for the knife/murder weapon. (between St. Charles and North Ave.)
-Intersection of St. Charles and Fair Oaks. From east side on St. Charles. -Road/area/Red Farm on North Side of St. Charles just west of Fair Oaks. For feel of area.
-Klein Rd looking North from St. Charles (in the event this is the route LS took) A few pics of the wooded area along Klein Rd. for feel of area.
-Maybe the Lake which is was the quarry, although that was not Schofield property but adjacent to the farm property.
-Various pictures of what is now the Forest Preserve and was the family farm the west side of Fair Oaks, especially the 'hilly' area's for feel of area and landscape.
-photos from parking lot of forest preserve overlooking property W/NW and NW and NE views... for landscape. From the parking lot area the property slopes downward towards the west and it looks like the tree tops west/north west are about eye level. This was all at one time Schofield Family farm and would be nice for readers and members to see.
-Fair Oaks Road looking north from Lies.
-East view of Lies from Fair Oaks. We do not know the exact location where Debbie was found.
-Picture of current intersection from Lies. (so forest preserve is in background)
-Wynn Road from Fair Oaks. maybe a few pics of the homes on Wynn.
(will come back to add Debbies old address here)


These are the idea's which came to mind for me. I know that is quite a few, but I would love for readers to get a real feel for the area.

They might be best viewed on a photo sharing site other than Photo Bucket. Photo bucket accounts are deleted if they are not used within about 3 months... I think the other sites like image shack will keep the photos indefinately.

hth and this would mean so much to me and be such a big favor. If you are able......

ty! :blowkiss:

Cubby

ETA: Also some pics along Fair Oaks North...

 

[Cubby]

Cubby,
I looked at the older maps 1951,55 & 59. Why is the LS family farm under another name? Don't know if I should post the name here. Did they (LS) live somewhere else at this time?
Thanks........

You can post the name and links if you can. This would not be an invasion of privacy since the data is so old and the property is now owned by the county.

It should be the Schofield family farm... though the very north east corner of that property - I think where the TH's are now and where the lake is now was not part of the Schofield farm and would be under a different name. The Schofield farm is just to the south of that area.

I will try to carry the older post with the link to the plat map and bring it current.

ETA may get to carrying the older post over tomorrow if I can't find it quickly this late....

 

[Cubby]

Sorry the photo list was so long! I know it is long, but I think it would be the best 'feel' of the area for readers.

 

[Cubby]

Carried over from Thread #1

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/273985/Wayne+T40N+R9E/DuPage+County+1968/Illinois/

ETA: You have to click and zoom on the map. then move until you see R2. Just a little right of that is the number 23. The Schofield Family farm is right to the left of the number 23.


I knew I would find it eventually. The farm was WEST of Fair Oaks, and 'kiddie corner' to Fair Oaks and Lies Rds.

This property is currently owned by the county and is part of the West Branch Lower Reserve County Forest Preserve. (outside of 1 home which still appears to be located on the property.)

It is difficult to tell from the above map where exactly the 'deep quarry lake' falls on this property. It is somewhere along the northern property line of the Schofield Family Farm and the Bernard H. Seger property just north of the Schofield family farm. This explains what Abbey5 read about 'near the old quarry'. I don't know when this quarry was an active quarry and when it might have been filled in.

I can see from this map:
1)LS would have had access to that lake, presuming it was filled with water in 1966, to toss the murder weapon in there.
2)Instead of turning left into the Schofield family farm, (dependent upon where the driveway was) whoever dumped Debbies remains turned east onto Lies Road, as Lies dead ends at Fair Oaks.

eta
3) On 90 acres when it was dark outside, it is very conceivable LS could have been on that property without anyone in the home knowing.

Now to see if I can find any more info on that Deep Quarry Lake.

 

[Cubby]

I hope this map works.
The address is 4 Fair Oaks Rd. Carol Stream.
Looking though, now this may have been the home of the neighbor just to the north of the Schofield Family farm. This family owned rights to the rock quarry which is now the lake seen in the map.

I can't be certain if this home was the Schofield home, or the neighbor to the north.


MAP

ETA: Looking at the plat map above, this home is almost certainly on Schofield property according to the plat map. I'm 99% sure this is the schofield home that LS grew up in... unless it was built after 67. I do not know when the family moved out... or how long they lived there after John Scofield died in the drowing accident in late 67. Would depend I guess on when LS's mother passed away or when she moved out which we do not know.

ETAA: From what I have read, I believe the quarry was not filled in with water then and was still being worked until at least the early 70's or had rights to work the quarry for stone until the early 70's. I do not know if there was any water in the bottom of the quarry in 66.

 

[Cubby]

Cubby,
I looked at the older maps 1951,55 & 59. Why is the LS family farm under another name? Don't know if I should post the name here. Did they (LS) live somewhere else at this time?
Thanks........

Ah ha! Found the answer. The name was in John Schofields wifes family name. LS's moms maiden name was Klein. I believe the same Klein Family for which Klein Road is named as they had a farm a little SW of the Schofield farm in the immediate area. I'm basing that on the proximaty of the property, not any genealogical research outside of some basic info Abbey5 was able to provide.

hth

 

[Cubby]

Perhaps of interest.

I went back and looked at several of the plat maps going back to 1874. The name Geo M. Klein appeared for that same property from 1874 until the name change to John Schofield in the 60's ( forget which year exactly). We know LS grew up on this farm from media articles.

The earlier plats show the Klein/Schofield farm also included an additional 53 or 63 acres (both are listed) on the North East corner of Fair Oaks and Lies. They still owned this property on the East side of Fair Oaks according to the 1955 plat map about the time LS was 16.

Makes me wonder which side of Lies Debbie was found on. The side which the Schofields once owned (north side) or the south side of Lies.

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/273899/Wayne+T40N+R9E/

 

[Cubby]

Perhaps of more interest.
Edna Klein is listed in the SSDI as Edna Schofield. Address match up. I believe Edna is LS's mother.

Edna Kleins father and perhaps a brother (I skimmed the info) served as Wayne Township Rd Commissioner just like LS's dad John.

http://books.google.com/books?id=pHEUAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA929&lpg=RA1-PA929&dq=george+m+klein+farm&source=bl&ots=Zt5ZfQ9kX3&sig=yvVw1oFTniG4GK4o9_g5rJDNrYA&hl=en&ei=OiZVTM_WOMipnQff8fDrAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=george%20m%20klein%20farm&f=false


The Schofields married into a well known well respected long time member of the community who had been in the area since the mid 1800's. I really think that had something to do with DuPage getting 'railroaded' so to speak with getting an indictment on LS in 66.

JMO

 

[Abbey5]

I know there has been some posts that there was a connection between AV and Bellecomo but I do not think we have had any verification of that. I think some assumptions were made tieing the two together since AV was the only neighbor in the media reports and he had found Debbie's body.

Bellecomo made sworn statements in Oct. 1966 before Circuit Judge William Bauer that a neighbor of the Fijan's had shown him the murder weapon...a spoon. Bellecomo was indicated on charges of perjury by the DuPage Grand Jury in late Dec. 1966. I searched to see if I could find a media report on Bellecomo and maybe some reason why he would have made that statment but I never found anything. I thought maybe he was facing some jail time and was looking for a reduced sentence.

I really don't think AV and Bellecomo knew each other. AV was nineteen years old and in college (away from home) and Bellecomo was twenty-six years old. I know that's not much of an age difference but at that age I think it is.

I do wonder if someone paid Bellecomo to make those statments to throw LE off the trail of LS and onto someone else. I don't know if LS and Bellecomo kenw each other but they were the same age.

Cubby, I do agree with you and think LS's family ties in the community did help him. And what a coincidence that LS's father became a road commissioner.

 

[SunnieRN]

Quick question. First of all however, Cubby your thoughts are amazing! That "clarity" or as I call them, light bulb moments, often are the pieces of the puzzle that sets other ideas in place!

So, question. I remember reading the passage about Bellarmo (?), and was wondering if LE ever search AV's home, or if they really just dismissed the story without looking for the spoon?


I just want to play devils advocate here for a moment. If I were LS and I continued to want to cover up previous "untruths", I would explain my actions as thus, "Well, I saw Debbie on the playground, (even though we know she was last seen with LS, by Lisa), and told her to go home, that it was getting late.

She told me she had called her Mom, (where she placed this call in unknown, or whether it was ever made), and she is coming to get me.

When I left the school, I decided to check some of the roads for my Dad on the way home. It had been warmer for a few days, yet still freezing at night. Since it was getting dark, I decided to see if the roads were icy and needed to be salted. (Did they do this in 1966?).

When I got the call about Debbie I was very upset. I thought, what if I had offered to give her a ride home, or waited for her Mom to come get her, instead of just leaving her on the playground. It made me feel somehow responsible for her safety, like when I was younger and ??????(have a great big blank here).

I think I was 'tortured' with these feelings and by the time my LE interrogation occured, I felt guilty enough for leaving her, that I wasn't sure what else I did. I was in shock. Debbie used to come over to see my son and even made him a present when he was born. We, my wife and I were both upset by her death."


I know this is "out there", but I can't see him confessing or turning himself in. I hope the day comes that you can be in court with the guilty party on trial Cubby, whether it is LS or someone else!! You are a strong and true voice for Debbie and other victims!!

 

[SunnieRN]

I know there has been some posts that there was a connection between AV and Bellecomo but I do not think we have had any verification of that. I think some assumptions were made tieing the two together since AV was the only neighbor in the media reports and he had found Debbie's body.

Bellecomo made sworn statements in Oct. 1966 before Circuit Judge William Bauer that a neighbor of the Fijan's had shown him the murder weapon...a spoon. Bellecomo was indicated on charges of perjury by the DuPage Grand Jury in late Dec. 1966. I searched to see if I could find a media report on Bellecomo and maybe some reason why he would have made that statment but I never found anything. I thought maybe he was facing some jail time and was looking for a reduced sentence.

I really don't think AV and Bellecomo knew each other. AV was nineteen years old and in college (away from home) and Bellecomo was twenty-six years old. I know that's not much of an age difference but at that age I think it is.

I do wonder if someone paid Bellecomo to make those statments to throw LE off the trail of LS and onto someone else. I don't know if LS and Bellecomo kenw each other but they were the same age.

Cubby, I do agree with you and think LS's family ties in the community did help him. And what a coincidence that LS's father became a road commissioner.

Thank you so much!! I didn't have any idea of the differences in their ages and that he was more of a peer to LS!! II wonder if he want to any of the same schhols? Love the theory of him being paid to lie!

 

[Cubby]

TY SunnieRN. We know that LE spent a lot of time investigating Bellecomo's false tip on the spoon. It's been awhile, but a media article quoted one of the investigators really t'd off they had been sent on a wild goose chase.

What we haven't looked at is if there is any connection between LS and Bellecomo. Especially with the two of them being only a year apart in age. It might be a long shot but...... perhaps LS knew Bellecomo from school or ??

We do know that LS's statement that he saw Debbie at the swing is also accurate because LE found muddy boot prints that matched Debbies boots from the swing to where she is believed to have entered the white car near St. Charles and Fair Oaks.

Abbey05- Another reason I believe LS's family ties helped him is not only because of the road commissioner tie but the Klein family had hundreds of acres not only in the immediate area but scattered throughout DuPage County at a time it was just beginning to grow/boom and change from mostly farming community to being developed. Some Klein property goes as far as Naperville. I don't beleive the Schofield family would have earned the same community respect and loyalty if not being married into the Klein family.

JMO

 

[Cubby]

I also agree it is unlikely Schofield will confess. I was just thinking outloud as a confession may lead to a shorter sentence versus a jury conviction.

I do think the case will be solved, and we do know todays forensic science is fantastic and continues to get better and better almost daily.
We also know it can take up 6 months sometimes for results to come in. Thinking of the Vaughn case the evidence has been at the state lab for what seems like forever...... so we know it can take a long long time. DuPage has their own crime lab but not everything goes throug the county lab. Some has to sit in line at the State crime lab.

I do believe it is just a matter of time to ensure all the t's are crossed and all the i's are dotted before making an arrest and proceeding with a trial. And yes I will be there and oh heck ya it will be better than being at a game winning world series game for the Cubs. If the two were happening concurrently I would skip the World Series game and be at the trial. And it would be an easy choice to make for me.

JMO

 

[Maia]

Cubby I am new to WS but I have been lurking here for about 6 weeks reading, reading, and more reading. I have read every word on Debbie’s thread (part 1 & 2), every word on Rosco’s thread (parts 1, 2 & 3), and several others. I would just like to express my feelings of complete awe at the incredible sleuthing being done by you and the others for justice for Debbie. I pray every day that I will open this thread and see where you have posted that LE has enough evidence for an arrest and conviction of LS because I’m convinced (IMO) he is the guilty party. I wish I could offer help in this case, but I am not at all familiar with the area (I’m in gator country looking for Haleigh). Keep up the good work and keep your faith. Justice WILL prevail.

 

[Abbey5]

It does seem that LS has family roots that run very deep in the community and even surrounding areas. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise now as to why there were VERY few media reports after 1966. Actually, there were very few after April of that year and what articles did appear had very little information in them.

One thing that has bothered me a bit is the comments that the coroner made to the media. Well, comments he made in two articles and they were made two days in a row.

1. Anderson Herald. Feb. 20, 1966. Woman may have had slaying role

Stab wounds on the outer edges of the girls eyes raised speculation that a woman may have been involved. Samuel Lewis, DuPage County Coroner and his deputy James Clark said that eye wounds were part of a pattern in murders by women. Clark said repeated stabbings were also part of an accepted pattern in murders by women. Persons who commit such murders do not recognize death as such and continue to strike after a person is dead.


2. Southern Illinoisan. Feb. 21, 1966. Little evidence in stabbing, coroner says

The DuPage County Coroner says there is not sufficient evidence in his opinion to bring a teacher to trial. We simply don't have enough experienced men to work on a case like this. There was no one we could call in to help. This situation emphasizes the need for a state investigative agency, which could build a case before a man is questioned. Lewis said that even if Schofield is indicted it would be almost impossible to get a jury conviction with the murder weapon missing.

I can understand LE being frustrated about not having enough "experienced" men on a case but why is a coroner making this statement? And how could he make a statement about not enough evidence when fingerprints, blood, clothing, boots, tire casts, etc... were still at the state lab. And I'm sure that murder cases were solved in the 60's without a murder weapon. The part about building a case before a man is questioned...how the heck do you build a case without questioning witnesses or person of interest?

I don't know what to say about the article from the 20th. I have never heard of this before...ever. If these two articles were printed weeks apart or maybe even a week, I might not have been bothered by them but printed two days in a row was quite a coincidence to me. I can be totally off here but to me it seems like the coroner was trying to say something with these two articles or maybe the media by printing them two days in a row.

 

[Cubby]

Abbey5,

Excellent post and excellent points. I'd have to take a guess, but I think the coroners role back in the 60's was much differently defined as it is today. It may have been an election year ( I don't know if it was or not) and he may have been voicing his frustrations the area was growing faster than LE could keep up...... This is where Shadowangel's knowledge would be helpful because he is much more experienced with many cold cases, where this is really the first I have delved into so deeply.

The coroner may have known from his experience Jury's would not return with a guilty verdict without a murder weapon according to 1960's standards. We know differently today based on forensic science.

I disgree with the Feb 20th statement these were traits of a female perp so to speak. It seems limited to me, as if a statement was being made like men are more 'wild wild west' angry in how they commit murders and a passionate but angry female would have lost it in such a manner. I don't want to come across as saying it was a sexist statement because I hate labeling in that manner.... I try to remember the times were so different then..... and LE's training, education and resources were so limited then at least in DuPage.

I do find myself curious though to see if this Coroner had any ties to the Klein family. For no other reason than if we found some perhaps it would mean they did a less than what could have been done to solve this case.
I'm not saying a tie would be definative proof but it would give me hope the possibility exists.

I remind myself of what Commander Mark Edwalds told me about this case in my last telephone call to him. "we are aware of the mistakes made on this case back in the day" - paraphrased. That gives me hope.. it tells me they know what went wrong and are reviewing each step that was not taken properly back then......

I also think that libel/slander suit LS filed furious back then put the breaks on any further media info until LE had more proof according to 1966 standards.

JMO

 

[Cubby]

Cubby I am new to WS but I have been lurking here for about 6 weeks reading, reading, and more reading. I have read every word on Debbie’s thread (part 1 & 2), every word on Rosco’s thread (parts 1, 2 & 3), and several others. I would just like to express my feelings of complete awe at the incredible sleuthing being done by you and the others for justice for Debbie. I pray every day that I will open this thread and see where you have posted that LE has enough evidence for an arrest and conviction of LS because I’m convinced (IMO) he is the guilty party. I wish I could offer help in this case, but I am not at all familiar with the area (I’m in gator country looking for Haleigh). Keep up the good work and keep your faith. Justice WILL prevail.

Thank you Maia. I'm glad you've taken an interest in Debbies case and the Anderson case. We gotta keep the faith. Your interest is great help. TY