IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[Keefer]

You don't know how many times joes gun was fired. You don't know if someone shot him from 1 foot away or 15 ft. You don't know if he and another person were struggling for the gun when it went off.
Maybe one doubled back to the car and met the other two? Maybe someone waited in the car and they phoned them to meet on other side?
Like I said I am keeping an open mind.
Like I said I have no problem with you assuming it's suicide and arguing that point.

 

[vestigare]

Oh yes, an awful lot can be read into what The Task Force isn't saying....

 

[vestigare]

You don't know how many times joes gun was fired. You don't know if someone shot him from 1 foot away or 15 ft. You don't know if he and another person were struggling for the gun when it went off.
Maybe one doubled back to the car and met the other two? Maybe someone waited in the car and they phoned them to meet on other side?
Like I said I am keeping an open mind.
Like I said I have no problem with you assuming it's suicide and arguing that point.

Think about it. If the gun was fired from more than an arms length away then the police would know this and would not leave suicide open.
If his gun was not fired then it can't be suicide....
The reason the have left suicide as an option is because no evidence singles it out yet.

Not sure what your car information has to do with what said nor with the forensics.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Blarney Island.
I can't quit thinking about the olden days.

http://blarneyisland.com/

Note: This came up because of a fundraiser held there on 9/11 to support G.I. Joe.

 

[Keefer]

Think about it. If the gun was fired from more than an arms length away then the police would know this and would not leave suicide open.
If his gun was not fired then it can't be suicide....
The reason the have left suicide as an option is because no evidence singles it out yet.

Not sure what your car information has to do with what said nor with the forensics.

Yes and no. He was shot twice. Perhaps they think first shot was at some distance away. Maybe fatal shot was close enough for suicide but this does not Necessarily prove suicide. He could have had his hand on the weapon when the trigger was pulled.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

All this talk about drugs made me think - what if LE found a brick (or whatever a pack of drugs is called) in the field?
The perp could have unloaded it as he was running.
The assumption is LE found a bullet casing but what if they found tossed drugs?
Finding that kind of evidence would lead away from the idea of suicide.

 

[Keefer]

Maybe Joe was tasked with keeping an eye on this area because of the drugs? Maybe a C.I. Set him up, if he was set up?

 

[vestigare]

Yes and no. He was shot twice. Perhaps they think first shot was at some distance away. Maybe fatal shot was close enough for suicide but this does not Necessarily prove suicide. He could have had his hand on the weapon when the trigger was pulled.

Go back and read the post you said was assumptions. I already addressed all that.
Yes, it doesn't prove suicide. My post was about proving suspects got away and what other evidence would need to be explained for that to be logical.

Noting I said was assumptions. It was looking at the evidence in a logical way based on what we know and what has to be in order for them to still keep suicide on the table.

I agreed in my post that there could have been suspects but the evidence needed to work with that.

Like you said with each new piece of evidence you have to fit it into the puzzle. You can't just start a new puzzle. So we have to explain why his gunshot was close, why he has gunshot residue on his hands, why there is a lack of suspect forensics etc.... before you can just slap homicide on a death that otherwise appears forensics to be a suicide so much so that the task force still hasn't ruled that out.

 

[Keefer]

We will have to agree to disagree as far as your assumptions..
I for one am glad you are so certain no one else was there. If it turns out to be murder I will say, " I told you so", in the most gentle of ways. If it turns out to be suicide you can say, " I told you so" anyway you see fit.
I am wondering though why you are so interested in this case of suicide?

 

[Walker007]

Blarney Island.
I can't quit thinking about the olden days.

http://blarneyisland.com/

Note: This came up because of a fundraiser held there on 9/11 to support G.I. Joe.

So crazy that you posted this because I didn't want to mention or sound crazy. But I used to live in the area but this was back 20 years ago and I worked at BI. Lt. Joe face has always seemed very familiar to me since he was identified but I have kept wondering if it was from Blarney's. LE would often come out to check in but it was usually Lake County Sheriff on a boat or officers still in uniform would stop in at the Port.

 

[vestigare]

We will have to agree to disagree as far as your assumptions..
I for one am glad you are so certain no one else was there. If it turns out to be murder I will say, " I told you so", in the most gentle of ways. If it turns out to be suicide you can say, " I told you so" anyway you see fit.
I am wondering though why you are so interested in this case of suicide?

We will have to agree to disagree as far as your thinking logic is assumptions.

*rolls eyes

I don't p lay "told you so" games with evidence. The evidence speaks for itself. It tells you so.

You can lead a horse to water....

 

[Walker007]

If the police have a good lead/idea about a suspect, they have no reason to make a plea for leads. LE may be building a case now.
Keeping the appearance they haven't made progress, may be better for the investigation.
Also, it may be the reason why LE knows the community is relatively safe, in that, they have a good idea of what went down already.
The perp may think s/he's close to getting away with this and may be getting comfortable with the idea.

Just saying there are legit reasons why LE doesn't offer details about an investigation.

Then when LE does tell the public there was a dog who tracked a scent or offer other details that hint at why they're still investigating as if this is a homicide, people won't accept the hint.

I've heard it said that sometimes the answer is in what is not said (or something like that).

Give LE a chance to do their jobs (is how I'm feeling right now).

I agree with all you wrote above. Good post. I am also giving benefit of the doubt is my position as well.

 

[cady]

I started out being interested in the murder of CG, and hoping for leads, and cheering when the videos were discovered, that hopefully the 3 perps would finally be nailed......and then it got really hinky, especially when no MOD could be determined. Gradually, suicide appeared to be the most likely scenario. It still is, for me, though I am leaving the door open a crack, for an assassination by insiders, but so far no evidence of that. I do not believe that the 3 people described were EVER there. If suicide, motive isn't required, but I am interested in exploring the possibilities. JMO

 

[night train]

In a 2 vs 1 or maybe 3 vs 1 scenario with death following relatively soon, no matter how savage one's defense, there wouldn't necessarily be much evidence of defense wounds.I've participated in training exercises where 3 others had to restrain me,those are tough odds to overcome.

If Lt. Gliniewicz had his gun drawn, it would be the focus of a struggle and may have fired causing the damage seen in the lower portion of his bullet proof vest leaving gunshot residue on Lt. Joe and at least one attacker.

After the impact of a 40 caliber shot to his vest,an attacker gains control of the gun. Lt.Gliniewicz bent at the waist... stunned and stumbling sustains a second intentional fatal shot above the coverage area of his vest that proceeds downward into his chest.

In considering my theory, flaws would be a lack of DNA/hair or fiber evidence from an attacker although I don't know that jeans and a t-shirt leave significant fibers and suspect detection would be easier for an indoor crime scene than at a cement yard.

 

[cady]

No defense wounds, ok, but also no evidence of struggle. No evidence of 1 perp, let alone 3. JMO

 

[vestigare]

And the gun had to be held by the perp in a manner consistent with suicide.
Not saying it can't happen but it must fit because we know at this point that shot was consistent with both homicide and suicide.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

So crazy that you posted this because I didn't want to mention or sound crazy. But I used to live in the area but this was back 20 years ago and I worked at BI. Lt. Joe face has always seemed very familiar to me since he was identified but I have kept wondering if it was from Blarney's. LE would often come out to check in but it was usually Lake County Sheriff on a boat or officers still in uniform would stop in at the Port.

Well, let's just say, Blarney Island has been around a loooong time!
The Lt. may have checked in as far back as 30 plus years ago!
And, the place looked old already back then but I did not - lol!

 

[cady]

The event had to occur, beginning at the time that CG's radio transmission was lost and before the back-up arrived. Very little time for the alleged 3 to disappear without a trace. JMO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

LE wouldn't want to jeopardize witnesses.

 

[vestigare]

The event had to occur, beginning at the time that CG's radio transmission was lost and before the back-up arrived. Very little time for the alleged 3 to disappear without a trace. JMO

Not only for them to disappear but then to start a fight or whatever after having ran off into the swamp, get his gun, and all this goes down.

Sure it could happen....