IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[TheDuchess]

Photo of the street straight across from the ribbons noticed lots of blue ribbons EVERYWHERE in town.
.

Photos of Honing Road

And broke my heart to see this sign when I stopped at the gas station down the road.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Japple]

Thanks for the pictures. I have to dissagree with you about the sighting of the 3 from rollins. To me it would make better sense to drive around to honing to question them, rather than park on rollins and have to leave his squad a much longer distance. He knew where they were headed as there's nowhere else to go. He had plenty of time to arrive at the gate before they did.

Anyone on that property would be suspicious. They could have just been cutting through taking a shortcut. He just wanted to talk to them. IMO

 

[night train]

Thanks for the pictures. I have to dissagree with you about the sighting of the 3 from rollins. To me it would make better sense to drive around to honing to question them, rather than park on rollins and have to leave his squad a much longer distance. He knew where they were headed as there's nowhere else to go. He had plenty of time to arrive at the gate before they did.

Anyone on that property would be suspicious. They could have just been cutting through taking a shortcut. He just wanted to talk to them. IMO

My thoughts exactly.

If it didn't happen this way my belief in homicide's out the window.

 

[Japple]

For those that may not have read this. Good reading about what went on that day with calls of suspicious people and vehicles. Starts at post 7609 and goes on for about 10 pages.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...KING-NEWS!!!-Current-Scanner-Alerts-7/page508

 

[AuntB]

This happened off the road. 4 people in a "fast and furious" struggle would have disturbed the ground growth. JMO

BBM
Your mention of disturbed ground reminds me of something I experienced in college. I was president of my sorority when one of the girls claimed to have been attacked outside our dorms. Nobody heard anything, even though the struggle supposedly happened next to the building, right beside the windows of ground floor dorm rooms. There was no trace of the guy. No witnesses. Nothing.

She claimed that she was being stalked and the whole sorority was on edge, unnerved by the lack of resolution to the case. Eventually, being suspicious that the girl was lying, I went to campus police to discuss the matter. It was a fascinating encounter. The Chief was very open with me, saying that the case was the most baffling of his career with evidence to support either theory (fake/real). The detail that struck me was his comment that one indicator of a false claim is undisturbed ground at the scene of the supposed attack. In this girl's case, the ground was torn up. Was she that clever? No arrest was ever made.

All that was to say... Since Lt. Joe would know what investigators look for, IF he did this to himself, disturbed ground might just indicate that he was thorough.

Just a thought.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://www.people.com/article/illinois-cop-found-dead-may-have-committed-suicide

139 comments, most from 8 days ago.

Some of the civilized comments suggest waiting for results of forensic testing to come back. We learned results came back several days ago but do not point in any one direction to provide the answers needed.

What happens now?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

No one will even say if the Lt. was still breathing when first reponders arrived.
We don't know if he was turned over and worked on when those good people would be disturbing the ground trying to save him.
We don't know how the scene was processed originally and were misled to believe the officer's gun was missing.

How and why did the pepper spray news get reported?
Is it missing or not?

All of a sudden, I'm angry.

 

[Japple]

No one will even say if the Lt. was still breathing when first reponders arrived.
We don't know if he was turned over and worked on when those good people would be disturbing the ground trying to save him.
We don't know how the scene was processed originally and were misled to believe the officer's gun was missing.


How and why did the pepper spray news get reported?
Is it missing or not?



All of a sudden, I'm angry.

BBM. I did read at least 1 article that the 1st responders arrived and that he died soon after. Other articles stated that they found him dead upon arival

 

[TheDuchess]

BBM. I did read at least 1 article that the 1st responders arrived and that he died soon after. Other articles stated that they found him dead upon arival

The coroner stated that he died very quickly. FWIW (I think he was saying pretty much immediately and probably didn't suffer.)

 

[TheDuchess]

OK...home now so hopefully a little better at this picture thing, but I pulled some screenshots off of Google Maps just to try to illustrate my point.

In order to entertain the idea of JG first spotting the 3 off of Rollins Road, logic would dictate that he was driving west-bound on Rollins with the cement plant to his left.

This would be his first approach (keep in mind that he would be farther off to the right hand side than these shots, as he would be in the right hand lane, presumably with some type of traffic coming the opposite direction.) Note that from this approach, it would be difficult to see anyone suspicious at first glance. (I know..he's a 30 year veteran with very powerful powers of observation and all, but still...)



Now as he were to move forward and get a clearer view of the building and the field behind it and off to the right, I have positioned what I would imagine could be where he may have seen the 3.



And lastly, here is a very clear shot and I have placed the 3 where I feel he could have a clear shot that they are 2 white male 1 black male and suspicious. (He would likely need to tell this from behind as well.) Now add to that the fact that suspicious people don't stand out in the middle of an open field like this, they would likely try to blend into the environment. Now, he could have been suspicious that they were on the property to begin with when it is abandoned, however, I would imagine that it would not be too uncommon for people to take that as a shortcut toward the business area on Sayton Road rather than go all the way around (as we will see a bit later.)

 

[TheDuchess]

This is the route JG would have needed to take in order to go all the way around to the back side where Honer Road is. If you are curious, I suggest you go to: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42....72,-88.1742001,507m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0 and actually virtually drive the route. It is 3 minutes by car, but check out the area. Lots of trees. A left hand turn, then past the busses, past Enterprise, past the water treatment plant and then left on Honing and follow back to the gate. There is zero visibility throughout that 3 minute drive. Why go back around there to where they would come out the other end when he could have just simply pulled up on the side of Rollins and asked them to stop. (He was close enough to tell race and gender.)



And I made another shot of the same area trying to show walking time. It looks to be a total of about a 6 minute walk or so from the Rollins Road entrance to the Honing Road entrance. They could have done it quicker if they were running, but there you have it.



So - in order for this theory to work, JG would have been able to notice them walking through the field pretty quickly, then decided to drive around and head them off "at the pass" so-to-speak. I mean I guess this could work if you feel he saw them cutting through the field, had a good idea they were taking the short cut, decided to head them off at the pass, radioed it in as he was going around toward the back of Honing and waited for them there. Then when they came around the last curve up the gravel road, saw his squad and ran into the swamp. I guess he could have then called back in and said - hey, they are running into the swamp, ran after them to investigate and one of them jumped out of the bushes or something and shot him and then they all scattered.

So, yes, it could have happened that way, certainly. I guess I am curious as to why he would go through all of that trouble for 3 guys simply taking a short cut through an abandoned field. I mean, why would he honestly care? It was a really hot humid morning. Why bother 3 guys just trying to get to where they are going in a little bit less time? I would be willing to bet they wouldn't have been the first people to take that short cut. I guess it is possible, but I'll leave that up to the rest of you guys to decide. I just wanted to put some pictures to my thoughts and see where it lands.

So, whatever the case, we have 3 minutes, right? From the first call to the 2nd call. 3 minutes to make the trip around. I guess it could have happened that way.

 

[Montjoy]

Thanks for the pics, Duchess, and for your analysis/speculation. In my view, it just makes the whole thing seem all the stranger.

 

[night train]

This is the route JG would have needed to take in order to go all the way around to the back side where Honer Road is. If you are curious, I suggest you go to: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42....72,-88.1742001,507m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0 and actually virtually drive the route. It is 3 minutes by car, but check out the area. Lots of trees. A left hand turn, then past the busses, past Enterprise, past the water treatment plant and then left on Honing and follow back to the gate. There is zero visibility throughout that 3 minute drive. Why go back around there to where they would come out the other end when he could have just simply pulled up on the side of Rollins and asked them to stop. (He was close enough to tell race and gender.)

View attachment 82061

And I made another shot of the same area trying to show walking time. It looks to be a total of about a 6 minute walk or so from the Rollins Road entrance to the Honing Road entrance. They could have done it quicker if they were running, but there you have it.

View attachment 82060

So - in order for this theory to work, JG would have been able to notice them walking through the field pretty quickly, then decided to drive around and head them off "at the pass" so-to-speak. I mean I guess this could work if you feel he saw them cutting through the field, had a good idea they were taking the short cut, decided to head them off at the pass, radioed it in as he was going around toward the back of Honing and waited for them there. Then when they came around the last curve up the gravel road, saw his squad and ran into the swamp. I guess he could have then called back in and said - hey, they are running into the swamp, ran after them to investigate and one of them jumped out of the bushes or something and shot him and then they all scattered.

So, yes, it could have happened that way, certainly. I guess I am curious as to why he would go through all of that trouble for 3 guys simply taking a short cut through an abandoned field. I mean, why would he honestly care? It was a really hot humid morning. Why bother 3 guys just trying to get to where they are going in a little bit less time? I would be willing to bet they wouldn't have been the first people to take that short cut. I guess it is possible, but I'll leave that up to the rest of you guys to decide. I just wanted to put some pictures to my thoughts and see where it lands.

So, whatever the case, we have 3 minutes, right? From the first call to the 2nd call. 3 minutes to make the trip around. I guess it could have happened that way.

Thanks TD good work- One part sounds a bit off to me. I see this as a routine route to the Police Station after the Grass Lake Rd-State Park Rd-Rt. 12 portion which puts him (Eastbound On Rollins) with the cement plant to his right.

Why? That area was his responsibility. My understanding is that in the days right before the shooting, there had been fresh gang symbol graffiti tags appear. Seems reasonable to me to check on anyone seen on the property .

On another note, had a weird revelation tonight. I'm OK with the idea of paying veteran cop's families the full death benefit if they die while on patrol: Suicide or not.

 

[bluesneakers]

Thanks TD good work- One part sounds a bit off to me. I see this as a routine route to the Police Station after the Grass Lake Rd-State Park Rd-Rt. 12 portion which puts him (Eastbound On Rollins) with the cement plant to his right.

Why? That area was his responsibility. My understanding is that in the days right before the shooting, there had been fresh gang symbol graffiti tags appear. Seems reasonable to me to check on anyone seen on the property .

On another note, had a weird revelation tonight. I'm OK with the idea of paying veteran cop's families the full death benefit if they die while on patrol: Suicide or not.

BBM: I agree. Whether or not that's what happened here it's terrible to think he'd had the added pressure of having to cover it up for financial reasons. As if being in that spot isn't hard enough.

 

[TheDuchess]

Thanks TD good work- One part sounds a bit off to me. I see this as a routine route to the Police Station after the Grass Lake Rd-State Park Rd-Rt. 12 portion which puts him (Eastbound On Rollins) with the cement plant to his right.

Why? That area was his responsibility. My understanding is that in the days right before the shooting, there had been fresh gang symbol graffiti tags appear. Seems reasonable to me to check on anyone seen on the property .

On another note, had a weird revelation tonight. I'm OK with the idea of paying veteran cop's families the full death benefit if they die while on patrol: Suicide or not.

I didn't hear about the gang stuff, so that is interesting to note. But the reason why I said he would have been going westbound would be that he headed that way to get to Honing. I guess he could have seen them headed eastbound and then did a u-turn?

I have a question - do the squads typically have GPS in them that would record their locations at specific times? I know in accident investigations there is usually a black box that records speed, etc...to help investigate the accident.

 

[TheDuchess]

BBM: I agree. Whether or not that's what happened here it's terrible to think he'd had the added pressure of having to cover it up for financial reasons. As if being in that spot isn't hard enough.

I respectfully disagree. There is life insurance and pensions and of course savings, 401K, etc...that is for widows of police officers who die whether at work or off work. The survivor benefit for an officer killed in the line of duty is different. I think that should be held sacred and if not, can be all too attractive for abuse. And on top of that, it is fraud. That said, I would want it to be 100% certain that it was a suicide before denying the family the death benefit.

 

[cady]

Oh, thank you. So they hold a separate meeting per person?
Interesting.
Because, remember someone said Gliniewicz hadn't filed retirement papers yet.
Why would they have his pension meeting scheduled already when the case remains open?

It was about benefits for Mel Gliniewicz. Also, I believe that in his transmission he DID say that he was pursuing and he was OFF the road. JMO

 

[cady]

Chicago Tribune editorial and comments are excellent. JMO

 

[Boo Radley]

No one will even say if the Lt. was still breathing when first reponders arrived.
We don't know if he was turned over and worked on when those good people would be disturbing the ground trying to save him.
We don't know how the scene was processed originally and were misled to believe the officer's gun was missing.

How and why did the pepper spray news get reported?
Is it missing or not?

All of a sudden, I'm angry.

This is something that has bothered me also. We don't know exactly what his condition was or what medical care was attempted, just that he was not transported to the hospital and he died at the scene. I am a paramedic and I was surprised by this. Police do not have the authority to declare a person deceased. Even paramedics have strict criteria for these situations. From the discription of his injuries, the short amount of time that had elapsed, and his status as a police officer, I expected them to go above and beyond in an attempt to save his life. It does not sound like the police officers who were the first on scene even began CPR.

My best guess is that the first arriving officers saw a lot of blood, saw no movement, and were understandably panicked. Since they have likely never seen a line of duty death of a coworker, their first concerns were safety, crime scene preservation, and apprehension of the perpetrator. It would take a great deal of discipline to remove yourself from those instinctive tasks to perform CPR, especially on a coworker.

On a related note, even if this turns out not to be a suicide, I hope that LE uses this as an opportunity to focus attention & resources on the reality of the mental and physical toll of the job that LE officers and their families face.

 

[night train]

I respectfully disagree. There is life insurance and pensions and of course savings, 401K, etc...that is for widows of police officers who die whether at work or off work. The survivor benefit for an officer killed in the line of duty is different. I think that should be held sacred and if not, can be all too attractive for abuse. And on top of that, it is fraud. That said, I would want it to be 100% certain that it was a suicide before denying the family the death benefit.

It's out of character for me to have those sentiments
Probably tired of seeing this being kicked around and around.A lot of money's already been spent since his unfortunate death.FWIW... I'd rather know my family was taken care of than to have a mammoth funeral procession.