IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[Chuz Life]

Would you mind chronologically detailing the events as you believe they unfolded? It's fine if you want to make it clear that it's only speculation. I would like to read your thoughts and specifically how you think things took place and how you believe the evidence we have supports that possible conclusion.

I am not going to take the bait and give you a chronological play by play because I do not know what happened. Maybe he shot himself and maybe someone else shot him. But the facts above can go either way, imo.

I'm sorry you feel this way. I was only asking for you to speculate on it because you claimed that the evidence we have (in your view) supports a murder / homicide. I still don't see how it does.

 

[bluesneakers]

I cut and pasted that from the post I was replying to. See post #50 by Chuz life

But why and how would it support a homicide theory?

 

[Montjoy]

But why and how would it support a homicide theory?

Exactly -- I can see how it could support a *staged* suicide theory -- as an officer might think that there is so much hatred of LE that investigators would assume the killing of a LEO by a perp is more likely than a suicide.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

A coroner may order an Inquest, an inquiry that may involve a jury, to help determine cause, manner, and circumstances of death.

 

[katydid23]

I'm sorry you feel this way. I was only asking for you to speculate on it because you claimed that the evidence we have (in your view) supports a murder / homicide. I still don't see how it does.

I explained how it supports a possible homicide. Gun shot residue and being shot by his own gun can happen in cases of homicides. The first 20 minutes does not prove anything either way, imo. Neither do the SM memes that you described.

I cannot give you a play by play because I do not know what happened.

 

[Chuz Life]

I explained how it supports a possible homicide. Gun shot residue and being shot by his own gun can happen in cases of homicides. The first 20 minutes does not prove anything either way, imo. Neither do the SM memes that you described.

I cannot give you a play by play because I do not know what happened.

Do you agree that gunshot residue only supports a conclusion of homicide (in this case) IF someone else was actually there with him when the shot was fired?

I ask this because so far, we have no real evidence to support the claim that he was not there alone.

 

[tcer114]

BBM-

There are signs a homicide occured,there is also gunshot residue on the decedent's hand(s) which could have been deposited during a struggle for his weapon.The investigators do not have the luxury of feeling "exasperated" There is no contradiction in any way.They are obligated to consider both possibilities.

The reward was increased to $100,000. I thought?

 

[night train]

Good stuff from everyone here today,thanks....that's the way it should be.

Impartial / Objective I believe those words are important.

"Signs of a struggle" they threw that in there Wednesday,means what it says...right? I'm choosing to take the Police at their word for now....It's my gut feeling even though I assure one and all reading this that I know quite well that the men in blue bend the truth from time to time.

An observation that doesn't sound exciting and I don't think has received much attention but may be meaningful:Lt.Glinewicz is often seen wearing glasses,I'm fairly certain that it was reported that his glasses were recovered from the scene.I'd really like to know if he was found wearing them,were they on the ground (where in relation to his body) and were they damaged ?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Why did Mrs. G make the comment about Coroner Rudd being "elected"?
What are the implications within her statement?
Do people distrust elected coroners? If so, why?

Afterall, it is the people who elected him. I don't think "the people" want insiders alone running the show for decades upon decades.

The question should be is he someone's puppet or a good and thorough coroner?
What's in it for him to do anything other than try to uncover the truth concerning each and every case?

 

[Chuz Life]

An observation that doesn't sound exciting and I don't think has received much attention but may be meaningful:Lt.Glinewicz is often seen wearing glasses,I'm fairly certain that it was reported that his glasses were recovered from the scene.I'd really like to know if he was found wearing them,were they on the ground (where in relation to his body) and were they damaged ?

"After the news conference, Filenko said Gliniewicz's glasses were recovered intact at the scene, but he wouldn't say if they were recovered on his body or on the ground"

Link: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20151001/news/151009931/

 

[katydid23]

Do you agree that gunshot residue only supports a conclusion of homicide (in this case) IF someone else was actually there with him when the shot was fired?

I ask this because so far, we have no real evidence to support the claim that he was not there alone.

We have his word on the radio call, the 9 types of foreign DNA, the scent trail, signs of a struggle, being shot twice and ?

 

[Chuz Life]

The reward was increased to $100,000. I thought?

I can acknowledge how that would be indicative of the belief that this was a homicide. However, it could indicate that they know it was a suicide as well and have nothing to loose by raising the amount of a reward that they know will never have to be paid out.

It would interesting to know where/ from whom the increase in the reward amount was originated from.

 

[Chuz Life]

We have his word on the radio call, the 9 types of foreign DNA, the scent trail, signs of a struggle, being shot twice and ?

I'm sorry but none of that proves that the Lt was not there alone when the shooting took place.

 

[marble]

In the homicide scenario (other than there being no sign of the perps in such a short time period) one of the main things that really will be inexplicable (imo) is if there is ends up being a lack of DNA and/or prints on the gun from anyone other than CG or the officers who potentially touched the gun (if they did).
There was a link earlier that showed it was 70 degrees and humid that morning so if someone else was able to disarm CG and shoot his gun it's highly unlikely he'd be wearing gloves to do it.

 

[tcer114]

I don't know how to multi quote so I will just answer. We know there were three people in the area who matched the description radioed in because they were seen on surveillance, interviewed by police and ruled out as being involved. Ruling them out as having been involved does not mean it rules them out of being in the area at the time.

By familiar face, I don't mean the 3 were recognizable or familiar to LT. CG. A 4th person who arrived on the scene unrelated to tne three who LT. CG would have recognized as someone arriving for backup would have the opportunity to walk right up to him and grab his weapon because he or she would never have been considered a threat by Lt. CG or the others who arrived on the scene and possibly saw their peers already there If the responsible person was believed to belong on the scene as the investigation was occuring isn't there a possibility a dog tracking their scent would have been dismissed?

Pls excuse typos on a tablet....

I think this sounds like the most plausible scenerio and certainly one the task force may already be looking at....there was one report that they took DNA from all FL LEO.

 

[katydid23]

But why and how would it support a homicide theory?

Montjoy asked me what the heck BLM has to do with this case. But I was not the one who brought them up. I cut and pasted it from the post I relied to, which Montjoy THANKED.

I purposely did not 'clarify' anything on the subject of BLM or this thread would be shut down and i would have a TO.

 

[khaki]

Many have mentioned perhaps Lt G staged the scene. Respectfully, I don't get this. I mean I do understand that many believe he incorporated the 2WM, 1BM into a narrative, but other than that, what other staging did he do? If the 20 minutes or so he was there was for staging, what staging did he do? If he committed suicide but wanted it to look like he was murdered, you would think he would have done a better job of staging. He could have made himself looked roughed up, torn his clothes, scraped his skin, etc....like signs of a physical struggle or something, roughed up the grass/swamp, etc... shot himself first in one area, not too serious a shot but bloody, then run around a bit as if he were being chased to leave a bloody trail, and then deliver himself the final fatal shot.

 

[Montjoy]

Many have mentioned perhaps Lt G staged the scene. Respectfully, I don't get this. I mean I do understand that many believe he incorporated the 2WM, 1BM into a narrative, but other than that, what other staging did he do?

rsbm --

Under the assumption that this was a staged suicide, I think that the two gunshots, one to his vest, and then one to a fatal area other than his head, could be seen as an attempt at staging. They support the idea of 'something other than a simple suicide', which would most likely be one shot to the head.

The 20 minutes is also cause to wonder what the heck was going on. Also, the lack of a request for backup, and the minimal information he gave about what was going on at the scene.

Sure, he could have done more, but that's sort of besides the point.

 

[Chuz Life]

Many have mentioned perhaps Lt G staged the scene. Respectfully, I don't get this. I mean I do understand that many believe he incorporated the 2WM, 1BM into a narrative, but other than that, what other staging did he do? If the 20 minutes or so he was there was for staging, what staging did he do? If he committed suicide but wanted it to look like he was murdered, you would think he would have done a better job of staging. He could have made himself looked roughed up, torn his clothes, scraped his skin, etc....like signs of a physical struggle or something, roughed up the grass/swamp, etc... shot himself first in one area, not too serious a shot but bloody, then run around a bit as if he were being chased to leave a bloody trail, and then deliver himself the final fatal shot.

What are your thoughts on this being a case where the Lt was not actually trying to go that far? Suppose he was only trying to stage it to look like he was involved in a scuffle and he only meant to shoot his vest a couple of times and then make it look they got away. . .

And then, somehow, he missed his vest on his 2nd shot and accidentally killed himself?

 

[Solitaryone]

With the possibility that I may have to eat my words, here is my theory:

Lt G was not the retiring type. He had applied for multiple PD Chief jobs and was turned down for all of them. This had to be weighing more heavily upon him with each rejection as his retirement grew closer and he had not secured another job. His pension would only be between 50-75% of his salary and does not include medical insurance. On his Facebook page, he has mentioned not being able to afford an upcoming race due to lack of money.

He has 4 sons, at least 2 are still at home. Does anyone know if 1 or 2 of his sons have special needs? Please do not be offended by this question. I have an adolescent son with special needs and am not making any judgements. However, as much as I love my son, there is a lot of work involved and this can be stressful at times. Having a child with special needs can often result in significant additional expenses. Statistically, these families also see higher divorce rates.

Police officers have a higher infidelity/divorce rate than the general public. Some have speculated about this possibility. I was surprised by some of the fitness related "inspirational" type quotes on his Facebook page. I felt that they could possibly be considered offensive by someone who was not as athletic and fit as Lt G, such as his wife. He obviously spent considerable time working out. In addition to his normal PD schedule, he also spent many hours training police explorers. This is wonderful & admirable but this also leaves less time for your family & spouse.

The Fox Lake PD was obviously having some issues. The chief and 1 officer were suspended while being investigated for the handling of a DUI arrest and subsequent complaint by the person arrested. While suspended, the chief chose to retire. I know you are innocent until proven guilty, but I would have expected an innocent and proud 30 year police officer to boldly defend his reputation & career. The city officials have also stated that the Fox Lake PD is undergoing a complete organizational review and an inventory of the department's assets, claiming this is standard procedure whenever there is new leadership. That is questionable. The times when this action is standard procedure is when there are indications of other problems and when department assets may be "missing". Also, the new leadership was appointed from outside of the department rather than promoting from within, even temporarily as many departments do in order to provide stability and continuity while they seek a permanent chief.

Lt G was close friends with the chief and the mayor, they all worked together for over 25 years. They mayor has a 90 minute breakfast with Lt G the day before his death. The mayor has only revealed that they spoke about the future of the police explorer program after Lt G retires. So despite the fact that Lt G was close friends with the mayor, wanted to continue working as a police chief, was praised by all for his distinguished career in Fox Lake, he was not being considered for the recently vacated position of police chief in Fox Lake. If he was , I'm sure that the mayor would have mentioned this in his comments to the press. So what else did they talk about? The investigation of the police department is being done by an outside investigator. This is significant because many serious allegations of wrongdoing are handled without the need for an outside investigator. They mayor no longer has any influence. What else might they find? In the days before his death, Lt G posted on Facebook that he was enjoying a drink on his deck after a stressful few weeks.

Could these circumstances, plus others we are not aware of have caused the perfect storm? Was he trying to sort out his options after the breakfast with the mayor? I don't think that anyone would have seen any traditional signs of suicidal tendencies. Lt G was a tough guy! And a tender guy. And a funny guy. And a wonderful father! He was also human, possibly finding himself suddenly overwhelmed, confused, and angry. The next morning, he left for work as usual, saw 3 men walking together, stopped at the secluded area that he was familiar with. Got out and walked around for 20 minutes while having some impulsive suicidal thoughts. Thought "what if" I could make it look like murder? This could explain the less than elaborate steps taken to disguise the suicide. He remembered the 3 men he saw walking. Shot a glancing shot off his vest (contrary to LE comparison to a sledgehammer and assumed incapacitation, the glancing shot in this instance would have much less impact force). Walked the 100 feet between shell casings, made the radio calls and the fired the final shot. Obviously, both shots were fired with a trajectories and proximity we that are compatible with self infliction or suicide would have been ruled out.

This is is a horrible tragedy. He is still a hero to me. Mentioning the 3 men was a spontaneous thought in a moment of unparalleled crisis, nothing more. Making it look like murder was not premeditated pension fraud, it was a desperate attempt to do something to help his family, consistent with his character, during the chaotic last moments of his life. He hid his fear and pain very well. Starting with his military service and continuing with the police department, he was conditioned to serve others, not ask for help. If he was shouldering more than he could handle, had given away too much of himself, and could see no other option, I think we need to learn from this terrible loss. These few moments of desperation do not negate all the wonderful things he has done or the lives he has touched. I would like to see the media focus on the issue of suicide among LE, all emergency responders, and our military, in order to honor his legacy and help others before they too, give too much.

Excellent post! I totally agree with every point you make. Before I had thought Lt.CG may have planned this out over a longer time, but the radio call he made regarding the three "suspects" seemed more spontaneous. Now I think this suicide, if it is a suicide wasn't planned very well, so probably not planned over a long time. If it is a suicide like many of us think it is, I agree, it's still a tragedy for all involved. Thank you for this well thought out post. :goodpost: