IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[Barnabas]

He lifts her so high it looks like he's about to throw her out the window IMO.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...And from here until 1:28, when he collapses to the floor, he appears to be -rocking like - in and out of the window frame.

It sure looks like she was never seated on the railing - but ON the window ledge. Hence - how could he possibly not know the window was OPEN?...

<respectfully snipped> The "rocking" back & forth was mentioned by a crew member in the earliest media reports. The crew member (probably the bartender or bar waiters in that area) said that he/she saw SA rocking Chloe in and out of the window. If that's the case, Grandpa certainly knew that the window was open!

 

[Chikkamma]

...

 

[sl222]

It is mind-boggling how he holds her in the air like that and one of his arms is not even holding her or at least not consistently. He seems to be moving a lot (hips, legs, etc.) during this extended scary sick event. What in God's name did he expect to happen? That's why I asked about his mental health. It does have a sinister quality and almost like he purposely let go of her and was not trying to hold her safely or was in any way even worried about the risk. She did not "fall" as they keep repeating... he, at best, DROPPED her while literally holding her outside the ship. Then he acts all surprised and collapses. It's truly disgusting. One of the worst moments that got me shaking was the moment he lifts her up a head higher than his, and OVER the bottom of the rail and window, what what what, it's just beyond comprehension.

 

[Chikkamma]

So much has happened in the last few days, it's almost overwhelming and it's certainly anger-inducing! I CANNOT BELIEVE that SA refused a plea deal when he knows the truth! He has no shame and no remorse, just continues to demonstrate the arrogance and disdain for laws that he displays with his multiple infractions for the same violation over and over! And that the family continues to spin this in every which way possible!

BUT there is one person who really really makes me want to vomit, and that is Winkleman. He is truly the epitome of every stereotype of an unethical, money-grubbing, ambulance-chasing lawyer that exists. He doesn't even spin the truth or demur or twist facts, he is a BOLD-FACED LIAR! He has seen the videos - he knows the truth! Everything that comes out of his mouth is pretty much an outright lie! I really believe that he stepped in and took advantage of a grieving family for his own greedy and publicity-seeking ends, and that in their confusion, grief, and the mother falling back into a comfort zone of dealing with problems through the court, they have been brainwashed to a large extent. A puppet on Puerto Rican TV reveals the truth, but the real puppetmaster here pulling the strings in my opinion is WINKLEMAN!

Not to say that at some point the family, especially SA, is responsible for their own actions, and I truly hope they come to their senses sooner rather than later, but I can't imagine their confusion and grief. Please, in the name of Chloe, drop this charade and grieve privately and with dignity.

Excellent excellent post. Only thing I disagree with is the family being passive bystanders to Winklemans agenda. The mother is a lawyer. She saw dollar signs and knows what she is doing. I can imagine many families in their situation who would be a lot more sympathetic than this family has been. JMO.

“A puppet on Puerto Rican TV reveals the truth...”. . You got that right! That puppet gives him the most honest reporting of this case I’ve yet seen.

 

[MsMarple]

Thanks for reposting this link, @MsMarple !
Almost forgot where this was said.
"Exposed the child to the abyss..." It means he dangled or hung her outside the window.

It doesn't mean she leaned forward and fell.

In the video from the DM link-- what stood out was how he leaned forward himself, chest out over the window ledge, after she fell --as if to watch her plummet.
Strange and horrifying.
And nothing like the lies Winkleman or anyone else has been spouting.

JMOO but I don't think it means SA actually, literally dangled Chloe out the window, rather that SA exposed her to the "abyss" or outside, not exposed her through the abyss. by sitting her on the railing. Another small but important difference.

Now, the part about "holding the girl outside the window" is more problematic. It may be factual as the official videos are probably clearer than what we've been watching.

But it also could be one person's interpretation, kind of what's happening here where some people clearly see Chloe outside the window while others do not.

I dunno, I'm trying to prevent myself from seeing stuff that isn't accurate but it's really hard with the grainy video.

Mostly though, if SA had dangled her out the window I believe the Puerto Rico police and prosecutor would have slammed him with manslaughter at the very least if not murder as dangling Chloe outside a window would imply intent. IOW if they believed SA acted with such a disregard for human life then they'd want him behind bars for many, many years. MOO.

 

[mrsinsyder]

It's been hard for me to see much but this freeze frame shows how high he's lifting.

 

[Chikkamma]

Can we all agree that this was not about banging on glass?

He sticks nearly half of his body out of the window BEFORE picking the girl up... he knew there was no glass to bang on.

 

[Medstudies]

<respectfully snipped> The "rocking" back & forth was mentioned by a crew member in the earliest media reports. The crew member (probably the bartender or bar waiters in that area) said that he/she saw SA rocking Chloe in and out of the window. If that's the case, Grandpa certainly knew that the window was open!

Yep, and I love having their testimony confirmed this way. Just like the affirmation that he did not sit her on the railing by him, but the ledge...out the window.

Im just going to predict their medical excuse will be a TIA or possibly early dementia. (And it will still be RCCL fault because: open window)

I’m going to get banned if I say what I really think... poor Chloe and big brother

 

[lonetraveler]

Like what for example?

I'm not the poster you were asking but IMO, it shows negligent homicide.

 

[sl222]

From the start, the PR prosecutors said that murder was one of the charges they were considering.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Another interesting take from July 8:
Initial reports claimed her grandfather, named as Salvatore Anello, dangled her from a window, but South Bend Police Department have since said that this is not true. They said Chloe slipped from his hands after he lost his balance, WSBT reported.
Pictured: Toddler who fell to her death from grandfather's arms on cruise ship | Metro News
Smoke and mirrors, folks.

Remember Michael Jackson when he held his baby outside and dangled her. If the baby had fell at that time, what would folks call it?

Michael Jackson did the same thing, but the baby did not fall to its death at the time, people were so very upset about that years ago at what could have happened if he lost his balance. So both could be true? Admittedly he dangled the baby out, but lost his balance? Same charges?

 

[MsMarple]

Can we all agree that this was not about banging on glass?

He sticks nearly half of his body out of the window BEFORE picking the girl up... he knew there was no glass to bang on.

What makes me the saddest is that Chloe, even as a toddler probably/possibly perceived the window was open. I hope she was too young to be frightened or understand what was happening. Unlike SA who apparently couldn't stop himself from putting her in harm's way. MOO.

 

[LietKynes]

It's been hard for me to see much but this freeze frame shows how high he's lifting.

Ugh.
Just makes a person wince !
He lifted her above his head to place her there... this was no casually leaning holding her at his waist level to 'look out'.
It took some effort.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It is mind-boggling how he holds her in the air like that and one of his arms is not even holding her or at least not consistently. He seems to be moving a lot (hips, legs, etc.) during this extended scary sick event. What in God's name did he expect to happen? That's why I asked about his mental health. It does have a sinister quality and almost like he purposely let go of her and was not trying to hold her safely or was in any way even worried about the risk. She did not "fall" as they keep repeating... he, at best, DROPPED her while literally holding her outside the ship. Then he acts all surprised and collapses. It's truly disgusting. One of the worst moments that got me shaking was the moment he lifts her up a head higher than his, and OVER the bottom of the rail and window, what what what, it's just beyond comprehension.

Mr. Anello allegedly exclaimed, "I dropped my child!" immediately after the little girl "disappeared", and that certainly describes precisely what we see in the video. Then, in one interview SA said that he saw or watched her fall. In another interview, he said that he looked for her on the floor. So many lies I wonder if SA wants to testify if this goes to trial? He probably fancies himself a good enough actor to fool a jury into believing the colorblindness crock

 

[Medstudies]

Since I only stated that I was heartbroken over his immediately falling down... I don't understand why what the family is doing has anything to do with what I stated.

I wasn't arguing the case or the charges... just making a statement that I immediately regretted. Stirred up a hornet's nest it seems.

No need to say how wrong I am or pile on... I just felt ill for the dumb guy.

Sorry for intruding.

BBM

I’m a little more heartbroken over Chloe falling downnnnnn, because Gramps was negligent.

150 feet to concrete after slamming into an awning vs “falling” (while holding onto the wall) down to the floor. Nary a minor bruise. I’d feel sorry for him - had it been him that went out the window...

 

[MsMarple]

Remember Michael Jackson when he held his baby outside and dangled her. If the baby had fell at that time, what would folks call it?

Michael Jackson did the same thing, but the baby did not fall to its death at the time, people were so very upset about that years ago at what could have happened if he lost his balance. So both could be true? Admittedly he dangled the baby out, but lost his balance? Same charges?

I consider what MJ did child abuse. And if he had dropped the baby I'd charge him with felony murder. As in a death occurs while one is committing a felony.

I'm open to the possibility that PR prosecution just doesn't want to deal with a murder case against SA for their own reasons we're not privy too. But SA literally dangling Chloe out a window is so egregious and abusive at the very least they'd call it child abuse. MOO.

 

[Medstudies]

This thread is 5 months of discussion and debate of facts put out by MSM, and the main driving force here is what happened to this precious little girl. At first little was known and over time more and more has come out piece by piece.

And the original threads (2 of them) were deleted...
ETA: Now makes me wonder: why?

MOO: MW certainly exerted his presence and pushed the one sided spin narrative since day 2. It was hard to say anything here once the media edited out original reports/statements/images. And... It appeared to me that there was no investigational journalism going on - at least since MW came aboard. It’s just been a media propaganda machine.

Cause: open window. (otherwise known as : lifetime retirement fund)

 

[oviedo]

JMOO but I don't think it means SA actually, literally dangled Chloe out the window, rather that SA exposed her to the "abyss" or outside, not exposed her through the abyss. by sitting her on the railing. Another small but important difference.

Now, the part about "holding the girl outside the window" is more problematic. It may be factual as the official videos are probably clearer than what we've been watching.

But it also could be one person's interpretation, kind of what's happening here where some people clearly see Chloe outside the window while others do not.

I dunno, I'm trying to prevent myself from seeing stuff that isn't accurate but it's really hard with the grainy video.

Mostly though, if SA had dangled her out the window I believe the Puerto Rico police and prosecutor would have slammed him with manslaughter at the very least if not murder as dangling Chloe outside a window would imply intent. IOW if they believed SA acted with such a disregard for human life then they'd want him behind bars for many, many years. MOO.

My personal interpretation of "dangling" is holding her around the waist and her legs are in the air - they are not resting on a railing or a window ledge or anything. This is what I believe he did to her. and she slipped from his grasp. many of us thought early on she might have been slick with sunscreen - that's the excuse they should be using IMO. bet we see it come up.
JMO

 

[sl222]

I consider what MJ did child abuse. And if he had dropped the baby I'd charge him with felony murder. As in a death occurs while one is committing a felony.

I'm open to the possibility that PR prosecution just doesn't want to deal with a murder case against SA for their own reasons we're not privy too. But SA literally dangling Chloe out a window is so egregious and abusive at the very least they'd call it child abuse. MOO.

Excellent point. It was child abuse. Thank you for pointing this out!