IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[Aydrianna523]

Remember Michael Jackson when he held his baby outside and dangled her. If the baby had fell at that time, what would folks call it?

Michael Jackson did the same thing, but the baby did not fall to its death at the time, people were so very upset about that years ago at what could have happened if he lost his balance. So both could be true? Admittedly he dangled the baby out, but lost his balance? Same charges?

I think many people don't understand cruises and the windows. I understand now. But MANY PEOPLE don't so I'm not sure they'll get a conviction.

 

[LietKynes]

My personal interpretation of "dangling" is holding her around the waist and her legs are in the air - they are not resting on a railing or a window ledge or anything. This is what I believe he did to her. and she slipped from his grasp. many of us thought early on she might have been slick with sunscreen - that's the excuse they should be using IMO. bet we see it come up.
JMO

bbm
Wouldn't surprise me.
Winkleman and his ilk no doubt have a plethora of excuses ready to trot out.
They can't use dementia/insanity as SA is gainfully employed; akaik.

 

[Aydrianna523]

The video isnt as good as I hoped, but I only have a tablet. Hopefully people can understand it when its blown up.

 

[MsFacetious]

He lifts her so high it looks like he's about to throw her out the window IMO.

Then, next thing you know... she goes out the window...

Pages behind on the thread, can somebody link the video which this is taken from please?

Here is an HD (clearer) version provided by @neesaki:

https://video.fymy1-1.fna.fbcdn.net...=36a5d62be897695f9c460d361b6875cf&oe=5E66D171


Here is the original:

La Comay - MEGA TV

Because if she accepts that he, and not the ship, is responsible, then she must accept that her choice (if it was) also played a part - that she let this reckless man that was married to her mother watch her baby. We must ask ourselves, how much did she know about his irresponsible behavior? Even if she had no idea about his citations or no experience observing him with Chloe and catching him in a few oopsies before, she will second-guess herself and come up with all the What Ifs in the world - "What if I just took her with me to deal with ship business?" Etc, etc. And that may be absolutely too much to bear. It assuages her guilt, which she must have, to think that the ship is at fault. Denial is a powerful protection mechanism.

Also, the family hasn't seen the video as far as we know.

and if you have ever stood on the 11th deck of one of these ships and looked out - leaning over makes me queasy - and I'm secure that unless I'm hopping up and into that window ledge, I am safe. and he dangled her out that ledge quite possibly throwing her up and catching her in the "act of games" - it's frightening and unfathomable IMO. I will take a pic to help see the height at which this was done. it gives me chills.
JMO

The video tour we've seen so much before demonstrates it clearly enough to make me sick. Starting about 1:15.

 

[neesaki]

Translation (continued):

38:16 (view from alternate angle) - “Let’s look at this in slow motion… What I want to show here is that this man was lying... He says it’s the cruise ships fault because he thought the window was closed... but he knew it was open!....... its obvious, so obvious!... his head is completely out [host continues about how it is obvious the man is lying]

41:08 (Slow-motion from alternate angle) - “Pay close attention to where his arms are [while holding her over the rail and you can see part of his elbow]... now his body is leaning forward so much that you CAN’T SEE HIS ARMS ANYMORE… he has the girl exposed to the void!... he knew it was open... he stays like that for a while… then you’ll see him fall backwards...”

Host says that what he wants to prove by showing this is that this man is a liar. He emphasizes this point over and over. Essentially he says that the man tried to smear Puerto Rico and blame the cruise line and this video proves without a doubt that he’s a liar. Host also clarifies again that their video is not the same [quality] as what the courts and prosecution likely have. He thinks prosecution’s video will be much better quality and much clearer than their copy.

The video is very long so this is a rough translation of what they are talking about. Hope this helps!

This really helps, Thanks so much, Chikkamama!

 

[Barnabas]

The video version I saw when I googled it was much clearer than the one on the PR tv show.

ETA: it's about the same as the version posted above.

 

[drama_farmer]

I think that the part of the video the defense will really harp on is the portion where SA stops at the column, appears to be light-headed, bends over with his hands on his knees, then rotates and squats, with his back leaning up against the column. During this time, he appears self-involved and is not really paying attention to poor Chloe.

IMO, Their "next" version of "what really happened" will be some variation/combination of seasickness, dehydration, reaction to a medication, un-diagnosed (fill in the blank), hypotension, etc. etc.

That might be a reasonable defense IF Chloe had somehow found a way to introduce herself to the "void" but simply can't explain the actions he took to cause her to fall to her death. If not for his blatant disregard and negligence, she would be alive today. IMO

 

[MsFacetious]

The video version I saw when I googled it was much clearer than the one on the PR tv show.

Like this one from @neesaki?

https://video.fymy1-1.fna.fbcdn.net...=36a5d62be897695f9c460d361b6875cf&oe=5E66D171

 

[borndem]

The irony here, is that Chloe could have banged on the glass as much as she wanted, at her level. And been perfectly safe.

That's the part I can't get by -- her standing on the floor and banging on the glass was what we were told she did at the hockey games. If she was perfectly happy doing that, why not just let her stay until she wanted to do something else?

 

[Barnabas]

I can't imagine letting a toddler run around loose with all those adults milling about either.

 

[katydid23]

The jury will see a very clear version. And from different cameras, and different POVs.

I am curious why Winkelman thought he could prevent the video from being shown during the trial. What legal reason would there be to deny that?

 

[justbreathe]

Ugh.
Just makes a person wince !
He lifted her above his head to place her there... this was no casually leaning holding her at his waist level to 'look out'.
It took some effort.

I read somewhere that in the civil case paperwork it says that the guard railing, there to prevent dummies from leaning out too far, prevented SA from grabbing ahold of her when she started to fall.

What? So now it is the guardrailing’s fault, too. Because it prevented SA from going over it to grab what he accidentally dropped out the window. Which just happened to be a small child. What in the actual $!@&!

 

[sl222]

Thanks for that better quality video. I noticed one thing. At the very start of the video, where the unidentified man is walking from the pool area directly to the window, Chloe is following this man and going exactly the same direction, to the window. She is then stopped by SA (or she stopped to talk to him on her own) and that's the part where they are at the pillar.

Then the man leaves the window, walks right past and in front of SA and Chloe. Immediately Chloe continues once again going straight to the same exact window.

Maybe coincidence but I hope this was checked into. She seems to be very interested in going to the window the man is going to and even though she's delayed at the pillar, she doesn't forget and goes on that straight path there.

 

[Chikkamma]

Key moments in the La Comay video host describes that I think are helpful when viewing:

-When SA is squatting near the column with Chloe, at some point you’ll see a very large woman in a short floral dress pass. If you look closely, this is the moment when Chloe wanders off towards the window area. Look for the big floppy white hat emerge behind the column.

-Chloe has gone to the bottom window. When SA catches up, the very first thing he does is lean his entire upper body over the railing and tilts his head downwards *past the horizontal plane* to look at something. You can only do this if your head is past the window pane. In the alternate side view, you can see his back is sharply arched over the railing, also indicating he’s out the window and looking straight down.

-AFTER looking out and down, he lifts Chloe way over his head and past the railing. The placement of his arms here is very important. In the side view, you can see his right elbow- this is when Chloe was sitting on the railing. A little later, you can see him pull his his right arm back (towards the inside of the ship)- this is the first time he lets go of Chloe. He then puts his arm back out of frame (presumably around Chloe) and leans way forward. You can’t see his arms anymore- he’s leaning completely forward with arms outstretched and out of view. He seems to be rocking back and forth. The next time his arms are in the frame is when Chloe has been dropped and SA falls backwards into the ship.

 

[borndem]

Excellent point. It was child abuse. Thank you for pointing this out!

Yes -- it was putting a child in danger/negligence. We've seen many people get charged for all levels of that sort of thing. Leaving a 4 y/o home alone, leaving drugs in reach of children, doing meth and then breastfeeding, driving drunk with children in the car, etc. No intentional harm to the child(ren) was on their minds, just either stupidity, selfishness, addiction, etc., etc.
G-pa didn't throw her out the window like someone would throw a basketball out the window, but as far as we can tell from the grainy, not-so-good video, he did put her in a dangerous situation, and then it happened. Not intentional, IMO, but certainly negligent.

 

[justbreathe]

Mr. Anello allegedly exclaimed, "I dropped my child!" immediately after the little girl "disappeared", and that certainly describes precisely what we see in the video. Then, in one interview SA said that he saw or watched her fall. In another interview, he said that he looked for her on the floor. So many lies I wonder if SA wants to testify if this goes to trial? He probably fancies himself a good enough actor to fool a jury into believing the colorblindness crock

I saw a pic posted where standing next to the guardrailing, if you look straight down you see the ground, because of the window slant.

But it looks to me like after she falls he leans waaaaayyyy over, I can only imagine watching her fall. Which to me seems to indicate he knew she was not “on the floor.”

 

[justbreathe]

My personal interpretation of "dangling" is holding her around the waist and her legs are in the air - they are not resting on a railing or a window ledge or anything. This is what I believe he did to her. and she slipped from his grasp. many of us thought early on she might have been slick with sunscreen - that's the excuse they should be using IMO. bet we see it come up.
JMO

My impression was he was leaning so far over she was almost horizontal, like superman style, as he held her with one arm around her waist and under her stomach, with his fist by her outer rib cage. She was for sure on the window *ledge* - not the railing.

 

[LietKynes]

I saw a pic posted where standing next to the guardrailing, if you look straight down you see the ground, because of the window slant.

But it looks to me like after she falls he leans waaaaayyyy over, I can only imagine watching her fall. Which to me seems to indicate he knew she was not “on the floor.”

bbm
THAT ^^^^^

Just weird. What was he doing ? Watching the aftermath ?
What explanation will he or SA come up with for that specific action ?

 

[Medstudies]

Thanks for the HD version! Okay, to me it looks like SA is taking a drag from a cig as he nears the window (and then leans out to exhale?)

and then after once again seeing the still photo of the side view for perspective of window/railing/ledge - I’m thinking he stood her on the ledge - or was trying to get her to stand on it. Maybe I’m wrong on that account?

Again, MOO He barely had one hand holding on to her. She was a foot out in front of him . The ledge is lower than the rail, correct?

I can envision her foot slipped off because she was scared ...and it was narrow and not meant a place to be...

 

[SouthAussie]

I read somewhere that in the civil case paperwork it says that the guard railing, there to prevent dummies from leaning out too far, prevented SA from grabbing ahold of her when she started to fall.

What? So now it is the guardrailing’s fault, too. Because it prevented SA from going over it to grab what he accidentally dropped out the window. Which just happened to be a small child. What in the actual $!@&!

From what I have read in the lawsuit filing, they are not even acknowledging that it is a guardrail (probably because it didn't have a sign on it stating its purpose ). The guardrail is mentioned several times, as a wooden rail or as a railing.

Apparently they have also presumed, on Chloe's behalf, that she thought the window was closed as well.


1. The wall of glass featured three rows of glass, floor to ceiling, with a wooden rail between the middle and bottom rows ...
2. In addition, the wooden rail located between the middle and bottom rows was approximately 18 inches in from the glass pane window.
3. Due to the distance between Mr. Anello standing at the wooden rail and the glass pane 18 inches in front of him, it was not apparent to Mr. Anello that the glass pane in front of him was, in fact, a window that had been slid all the way open ....
4. A photograph depicting the distance between the window and the railing is below ....
5. Mr. Anello then lifted Chloe up onto the railing and held Chloe while she leaned forward to bang on the glass that Mr. Anello and Chloe thought to be in front of them.


Reference:
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI DIVISION
WRONGFUL DEATH COMPLAINT AND DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL
Case 1:19-cv-25100-DLG
Entered on FLSD Docket 12/11/2019