Injuries and ME report

[believe09]

I know we discussed at length on the old forum how she might have come out the window-

Does anyone want to revisit some of it with me here? To me, she took the initial impact on the back of her head, to top of shoulders/upper back, slid some and then started to roll-

I just do not see how she could have come out of the car anything but face up, and why the h**l and how the h***l could she do that intentionally???

Her heels came down hard-they showed significant contusions and bruising.

If she came out face up, then LDJ must have participated in pushing her out sort of like crowd surfing at a concert-she had to have lifted Tawni's legs and lower body to clear the window/door frame.

An ME in Spokane said that most people who exit vehicles at high speeds get pulled back in under the wheels because of, uh, centripetal/or centrifugal force or gravity or something...I can't remember the term. Does anyone know?

If she came out face down, then she had to have had the presence of mind and speed of reaction to tuck herself into a relatively tight ball because her face was not damaged....

 

[VASHLEY88]

I know we discussed at length on the old forum how she might have come out the window-

Does anyone want to revisit some of it with me here? To me, she took the initial impact on the back of her head, to top of shoulders/upper back, slid some and then started to roll-

I just do not see how she could have come out of the car anything but face up, and why the h**l and how the h***l could she do that intentionally???

Her heels came down hard-they showed significant contusions and bruising.

If she came out face up, then LDJ must have participated in pushing her out sort of like crowd surfing at a concert-she had to have lifted Tawni's legs and lower body to clear the window/door frame.

An ME in Spokane said that most people who exit vehicles at high speeds get pulled back in under the wheels because of, uh, centripetal/or centrifugal force or gravity or something...I can't remember the term. Does anyone know?

If she came out face down, then she had to have had the presence of mind and speed of reaction to tuck herself into a relatively tight ball because her face was not damaged....

I'd like to help in any way with injuries/medical stuff.. it's my "expertise" here, since I suck with law..

Centrifugal force.. I learned about that, it's got a lot to do with rotation.

If Tawni exited face down, she would've rolled under and behind the vehicle, not away from it, IMO. If she tucked into a ball, it wouldn't matter, IMO, the force of going 75mph would've pulled her right out of a ball before impact..

I need to take another look at the ME report so I can reform the mechanism of her injury again.

 

[VASHLEY88]

Okay, I just went out front and performed a little experiment. I took a round object,non-spherical weighing about 10lbs, going around 35mph in my car, I know that's more than a little bit off, but since Tawni was around 110 and they were going 75mph, I needed to reduce the speed because of weight/volume. I dropped the object out of my hand at 35mph, and the object rolled right under and behind my vehicle. If Tawni hit the ground in a ball, she wouldn't have ended up at the side of the road, and rolled the direction she did according to the photos, IMO. I know there are a lot of factors missing here, like weight, speed, height, volume, size of the car, etc.. but I at least got an idea of what may have happened, in theory. Anyway, point being, I do not believe Tawni hurled herself out the window in a ball face first, it doesn't seem to correlate with her injuries. However; I could be wrong.

If her heels showed significant bruising-- it would make sense that if she came out in a ball, once she rolled over her heels would have much impact. BUT if she came out backwards, it is possible that she came out of the window (probably with additional force, mind you), hit her heels hard against the pavement, landed on her buttocks, skid, rolled to her shoulders, skid, hit the back of her head, and then proceeded to roll backwards continually. I apologize for the graphicness..

 

[fmw63]

So how much force would have been needed to propel a 110 lb person far enough to clear the wheels?

 

[VASHLEY88]

So how much force would have been needed to propel a 110 lb person far enough to clear the wheels?

Exactly. If she cleared the wheels, she had to of had additional help if this theory holds true. I'll believe she came out in a ball if she had enough force behind her, besides herself to push her up and forward.

Also, her hand print, it is positioned in a way where she was holding onto the roof FACING the car. If she came out face first, her hand print would've been more on the door under the window, no?

 

[believe09]

OK, I am sitting here crying like a baby because you guys are so incredibly awesome-this was EXACTLY what I was looking for-OMG. Sorry to be so emotional.

The ME I spoke with in Spokane was adamant that if she had come out on her own, she would have gone under the wheels, but a shove or push was needed to get her clear of them....and it had to be significant force.

 

[VASHLEY88]

Aww, thank you believe!


At this point, I think one of two things happened.

1. Tawni was shoved out the window with significant force to get her out of the vehicle, for whatever reason the b*tches (LDJ/WW) had. Whether they had assulted her, wanted to cover something up, or it was not meditated at all and someone/both (WW/LDJ) got angry at her.

2. Tawni wanted out of the vehicle because she feared WW, or wanted to go home and felt trapped. Tawni asked Lindsay to help her when she jumped out the window so that she could at least clear the wheels when she made impact.


Either way, when Tawni is out the window, the dumba**es realize, "Oh sh*t, we were going 75mph and she's probably really critically hurt." So WW decides not to stop since he got "rid" of Tawni. They probably panicked, that's why they did not stop. If Tawni jumped on her own accord, they would have stopped to save their butts by just telling the truth, wouldn't they? But they kept going. I have an itch that tells me something went on in that car that they were trying to cover up. And I think what they are hiding is that Tawni was ASSISTED out that window whether it was consented by Tawni or not.

 

[BeavisMom62]

Vashely, I was scared when I first read you performed an experiment. I'm thinking, oh, no she didn't! Wasn't it you that performed the other experiment about opening the door? Good job though, it makes perfect sense to me.

 

[believe09]

Aww, thank you believe!


At this point, I think one of two things happened.

1. Tawni was shoved out the window with significant force to get her out of the vehicle, for whatever reason the b*tches (LDJ/WW) had. Whether they had assulted her, wanted to cover something up, or it was not meditated at all and someone/both (WW/LDJ) got angry at her.

2. Tawni wanted out of the vehicle because she feared WW, or wanted to go home and felt trapped. Tawni asked Lindsay to help her when she jumped out the window so that she could at least clear the wheels when she made impact.


Either way, when Tawni is out the window, the dumba**es realize, "Oh sh*t, we were going 75mph and she's probably really critically hurt." So WW decides not to stop since he got "rid" of Tawni. They probably panicked, that's why they did not stop. If Tawni jumped on her own accord, they would have stopped to save their butts by just telling the truth, wouldn't they? But they kept going. I have an itch that tells me something went on in that car that they were trying to cover up. And I think what they are hiding is that Tawni was ASSISTED out that window whether it was consented by Tawni or not.

My question would be how a 17 year old developmentally disabled girl would know that she needed a push to clear the wheels?

I don't think it is common knowlege that you get pulled back into and under the rear wheels if you exit at a high rate of speed-JMO.

That being said, how about if she was scrambling to try and flag some help, and then she was given a shove? Remember the trucker saw an arm out the window first, and then the next thing he knew the whole person was out ass over teakettle. I picture one hand on the door frame/roof and one arm straight out over her head, while she was across LDJ's lap. This means it was LDJ who pitched her out, which would give LDJ all of the reason in the world to want to lie about it.

If you take into consideration that the truck driver couldn't just watch this unfold in his rearview or sideviews without checking back onto the road while he was driving, there could have been a lag from when her arm appeared and then her body flew out.

 

[believe09]

Vashely, I was scared when I first read you performed an experiment. I'm thinking, oh, no she didn't! Wasn't it you that performed the other experiment about opening the door? Good job though, it makes perfect sense to me.

That would have been our friend phenol who did that-and let me tell you if there is a book about this story some day, Please God, that HAS to be included in it!!!!!

 

[VASHLEY88]

My question would be how a 17 year old developmentally disabled girl would know that she needed a push to clear the wheels?

I don't think it is common knowlege that you get pulled back into and under the rear wheels if you exit at a high rate of speed-JMO.

That being said, how about if she was scrambling to try and flag some help, and then she was given a shove? Remember the trucker saw an arm out the window first, and then the next thing he knew the whole person was out ass over teakettle. I picture one hand on the door frame/roof and one arm straight out over her head, while she was across LDJ's lap. This means it was LDJ who pitched her out, which would give LDJ all of the reason in the world to want to lie about it.

If you take into consideration that the truck driver couldn't just watch this unfold in his rearview or sideviews without checking back onto the road while he was driving, there could have been a lag from when her arm appeared and then her body flew out.

You're right, believe. Developmentally challenged or not, it would not make sense for even a panicked, mentally inept adult to think about clearing the wheels while jumping out of a vehicle.

I thought about that possibility, too. That she said she needed to throw up, and LDJ rolled the window down, she waved her arm out at the truck drivers for help. WW got pissed off and swerved telling her to stop causing attention, LDJ pushes her out..

 

[VASHLEY88]

What if she sat on the ledge of the window, with her feet still inside the vehicle, and held on to the roof, while trying to flag someone down? LDJ could have easily tilted her legs up and out, or shoved her torso.

 

[believe09]

What if she sat on the ledge of the window, with her feet still inside the vehicle, and held on to the roof, while trying to flag someone down? LDJ could have easily tilted her legs up and out, or shoved her torso.

I think that was her intention, but she was helped out instead...which is why LDJ must have had a role in this.

 

[Fairy1]

I think that was her intention, but she was helped out instead...which is why LDJ must have had a role in this.

This makes sense to me - looking at the handprints on the top of the car passenger side. I am not inclined to believe Lindsey helped Tawni out because Tawni asked her to! LDJ was obviously afraid of WW - and probably still is. Anything she did to assist Tawni out of that car was not an act of kindness on Lindsey's part.

 

[BeavisMom62]

What if she sat on the ledge of the window, with her feet still inside the vehicle, and held on to the roof, while trying to flag someone down? LDJ could have easily tilted her legs up and out, or shoved her torso.

That also makes perfect sense as to why her wounds were so bad on the back of her head!

 

[Lucy's mom]

That also makes perfect sense as to why her wounds were so bad on the back of her head!

Yes, why they were so bad on the back of the head but not the palms of her hands.

 

[VASHLEY88]

Alright folks, referring to the ME report. It states that Tawni's endometrium is hemorrhagic, which is fancy shmancy talk for bleeding. Thoughts here-- does this mean Tawni was menstruating or does it mean otherwise? It says her vagina is without lacerations and abrasions.. should we just assume it was that time of the month or should this be questioned?.. Or am I reading this wrong and vaginas are supposed to hemorrage, whether menstruating or not? Endometrium is too far up to be bleeding from, lets say, a rape or sexual assault, right? I thought I'd ask since a catheter goes through the urethra (blood can be expected), which would not go near her uterine lining, I wouldn't think. Excuse my stupidity if that's normal. I should know better.

 

[phenolred]

That would have been our friend phenol who did that-and let me tell you if there is a book about this story some day, Please God, that HAS to be included in it!!!!!

LOL my dad's so easy going........ he non-chalantly said well do it....... (after I asked if he thought there would be to much air resistance )

ps I posted a video on another thread here on friday of the girl being pushed from the moving vehicle after she rejected this guys sexual advances, it really shows how here push kept her from going under the tires, and they were travelling 50 mph

this was from the Dallas TX area, last week

 

[VASHLEY88]

LOL my dad's so easy going........ he non-chalantly said well do it....... (after I asked if he thought there would be to much air resistance )

ps I posted a video on another thread here on friday of the girl being pushed from the moving vehicle after she rejected this guys sexual advances, it really shows how here push kept her from going under the tires, and they were travelling 50 mph

this was from the Dallas TX area, last week

I heard about that and was wondering if it had been posted, thanks Phenol. I saw the surveillance video too, being pushed kept her from going under. She skidded hard too and suffered severe road rash. Thank God for that sweet lady who stopped and ran as fast as she could over to her and stayed with her until help arrived.

 

[phenolred]

link to video

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages...n=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1




here is another video strangley her road rash injuries look alot like what Taweni got more skidding

http://cbs11tv.com/local/Dallas.Tollway.woman.2.823104.html