Tightening up the time line-

[VASHLEY88]

OK...we are getting off on a bad start IMO.


We can all do this peeps

The title of this thread is Tightening up the Timeline.....we are already off in 50 directions.

Let's organize and not jumble up a specific thread w/so many different subjects...so far in the timeline thread the accident, her family, abuse, condoms....am I making sense?

Not trying to be mean or nothin'..we just have to make an effort to keep things organized or we are going to be lost looking for info in scattered threads.

ETA, trying, but taking me too much time to get all these posts not related to the timeline in their perspective places....

I'm sorry! I'll try to be more organized and not lose focus here on what we're trying to accomplish!

 

[Auburnmommyof2]

So, could the woman really have been Lindsey, because at the time, Tawni was 17, Lindsey was only 18 - would she have been referred to as a woman? How old was the friend she had stayed with? :waitasec: Could the woman have been RA?

I thought the same thing, but do we know how old RA is/was ata the time? But Tawni's mom said she had met the parents of the girl she spent the night with after the shoplifting incident. It is odd to me that she spent the night with her friend, then came home the next day with a new woman to get her things to be gone for a few days. Do we know if Tawni's luggage was in the car? Is it possible that this "woman" dropped her off at the mini mart and that's where she met up with LDJ/AF? Going on the far fetched assumption that some of what LDJ said was true. Also, was there make-up and stuff in the car? Or jeans? Trying to think where Tawni changed clothes that day. Is there anyway to pull up the pics of the contents of the car?

 

[fmw63]

Do we know if Tawni's luggage was in the car? Is it possible that this "woman" dropped her off at the mini mart and that's where she met up with LDJ/AF? Going on the far fetched assumption that some of what LDJ said was true. Also, was there make-up and stuff in the car? Or jeans? Trying to think where Tawni changed clothes that day. Is there anyway to pull up the pics of the contents of the car?

An earlier post mentioned that the family had seen the in-car photos and thought that some of the luggage may have been Tawni's. The car pics are still there on Photobucket.

 

[Auburnmommyof2]

An earlier post mentioned that the family had seen the in-car photos and thought that some of the luggage may have been Tawni's. The car pics are still there on Photobucket.

Can someone post the link to the pics here to make it quick to look at?

ETA: Maybe put the photo link in a new thread in the private thread

 

[VASHLEY88]

The timeline is almost consistent with Lindsey's story. Although I can't say I believe much of her story, after looking at the photos, there were pillows and stuff in the vehicle, which would seem consistent with going on a road trip to Miami. I wonder if that Case Logic suitcase was Tawni's? It looks bigger than just a CD case, IMO. Too bad the contents weren't listed.

 

[believe09]

I thought the same thing, but do we know how old RA is/was ata the time? But Tawni's mom said she had met the parents of the girl she spent the night with after the shoplifting incident. It is odd to me that she spent the night with her friend, then came home the next day with a new woman to get her things to be gone for a few days. Do we know if Tawni's luggage was in the car? Is it possible that this "woman" dropped her off at the mini mart and that's where she met up with LDJ/AF? Going on the far fetched assumption that some of what LDJ said was true. Also, was there make-up and stuff in the car? Or jeans? Trying to think where Tawni changed clothes that day. Is there anyway to pull up the pics of the contents of the car?

My bold and italics. Unfortunately, this appeared to be a frequent occurence in Tawni's life.

I know I am referring to the person who was with Tawni packing up her things, but I do not know how to refer to her-Deb (Tawni's mom) ID'd her as Lindsey. I only have her word for it so far that this is who it was.

Before Deb knew anything at all about Tawni's companions in the vehicle, she had given me a description of the girl/woman who came to the house with Tawni and it matched LDJ-I turned it over to De. Lancaster at the time of the conversation in the hopes it could be vetted and lead to charges against LDJ.

The house was robbed the week following 1/26/99. It was robbed by two African American men who used containers from within the house to carry stuff out. The police believed it was an inside job, and since Tawni was still missing at that point, the O'Sullivan's believed she was in on the theft. Clearly she could not have been, however someone could have communicated the location of valuable things to someone else who robbed the house. My assumption is that it was people related to William Walker's crew-he had some burglary convictions on his record.

Tawni's ss# and DL were sold and being used in the NorthEast. Tawni's aunt id'd some of the luggage in the picture as belonging to Tawni...at the time, I am sure the detective's in Pinal County could not tell whose was whose stuff.

Tawni's mother Deb was going to make sure Det Lancaster showed her the photos of the items within the car.

Keep in mind that the film was not developed until FMW asked for it-the car and items were released to LDJ shortly after Tawni died. So her stuff is GONE.

 

[VASHLEY88]

My bold and italics. Unfortunately, this appeared to be a frequent occurence in Tawni's life.

I know I am referring to the person who was with Tawni packing up her things, but I do not know how to refer to her-Deb (Tawni's mom) ID'd her as Lindsey. I only have her word for it so far that this is who it was.

Before Deb knew anything at all about Tawni's companions in the vehicle, she had given me a description of the girl/woman who came to the house with Tawni and it matched LDJ-I turned it over to De. Lancaster at the time of the conversation in the hopes it could be vetted and lead to charges against LDJ.

The house was robbed the week following 1/26/99. It was robbed by two African American men who used containers from within the house to carry stuff out. The police believed it was an inside job, and since Tawni was still missing at that point, the O'Sullivan's believed she was in on the theft. Clearly she could not have been, however someone could have communicated the location of valuable things to someone else who robbed the house. My assumption is that it was people related to William Walker's crew-he had some burglary convictions on his record.

Tawni's ss# and DL were sold and being used in the NorthEast. Tawni's aunt id'd some of the luggage in the picture as belonging to Tawni...at the time, I am sure the detective's in Pinal County could not tell whose was whose stuff.

Tawni's mother Deb was going to make sure Det Lancaster showed her the photos of the items within the car.

Keep in mind that the film was not developed until FMW asked for it-the car and items were released to LDJ shortly after Tawni died. So her stuff is GONE.

Ugh! Talk about losing your friggin' identity..

 

[Auburnmommyof2]

My bold and italics. Unfortunately, this appeared to be a frequent occurence in Tawni's life.

I know I am referring to the person who was with Tawni packing up her things, but I do not know how to refer to her-Deb (Tawni's mom) ID'd her as Lindsey. I only have her word for it so far that this is who it was.

Before Deb knew anything at all about Tawni's companions in the vehicle, she had given me a description of the girl/woman who came to the house with Tawni and it matched LDJ-I turned it over to De. Lancaster at the time of the conversation in the hopes it could be vetted and lead to charges against LDJ.

The house was robbed the week following 1/26/99. It was robbed by two African American men who used containers from within the house to carry stuff out. The police believed it was an inside job, and since Tawni was still missing at that point, the O'Sullivan's believed she was in on the theft. Clearly she could not have been, however someone could have communicated the location of valuable things to someone else who robbed the house. My assumption is that it was people related to William Walker's crew-he had some burglary convictions on his record.

Tawni's ss# and DL were sold and being used in the NorthEast. Tawni's aunt id'd some of the luggage in the picture as belonging to Tawni...at the time, I am sure the detective's in Pinal County could not tell whose was whose stuff.

Tawni's mother Deb was going to make sure Det Lancaster showed her the photos of the items within the car.

Keep in mind that the film was not developed until FMW asked for it-the car and items were released to LDJ shortly after Tawni died. So her stuff is GONE.

How do we even know LDJ's description to say if it matched the description Deb gave?

I'm thinking the key to the O'Sullivan's was probably with her DL and other things. Thus the reason they think it was an inside job.

It sounds to me like Tawni's things were in the car, that the ball was dropped by not going through the bags. Sounds like her ID was in the car all along!!!

How does this relate to the time-line?? I'm just trying to nail down her steps that day. Any idea where the O'Sullivans lived at that time? How far it was to car lot? Accident scene?

 

[VASHLEY88]

How do we even know LDJ's description to say if it matched the description Deb gave?

I'm thinking the key to the O'Sullivan's was probably with her DL and other things. Thus the reason they think it was an inside job.

It sounds to me like Tawni's things were in the car, that the ball was dropped by not going through the bags. Sounds like her ID was in the car all along!!!

How does this relate to the time-line?? I'm just trying to nail down her steps that day. Any idea where the O'Sullivans lived at that time? How far it was to car lot? Accident scene?

I don't know about the car lot specifically but from Gilbert to Van Buren street it is roughly 30 miles. I lived in Gilbert for a short period of time.

 

[The Green Hornet]

I don't know about the car lot specifically but from Gilbert to Van Buren street it is roughly 30 miles. I lived in Gilbert for a short period of time.

Yep, depending on which part of Gilbert you are in. It's more or less a straight shot up the 60, which turns in to I 10 and Van Buren can be reached from there.

 

[Lucy's mom]

The house was robbed the week following 1/26/99. It was robbed by two African American men who used containers from within the house to carry stuff out.

For some reason, I was under the assumption that their house was robbed the week prior to her death. Okay, so it sounds like LDJ took off with Tawni's things after the accident when she claimed that the items in the car were hers. Perhaps she sold her DL and SS or maybe AF did. If you'll recall, on Jan. 29, LDJ had the vehicle released to her as well as the contents in the vehicle. My gosh I hope that her DL and SS weren't in her bag and LE overlooked it.

 

[Zanko]

Running some thoughts by everyone: (There are tons of things going on around me, so forgive me if this sounds fragmented!)

What happened between mom's house and the scene of Tawni's "accident"?

Tawni is seen arguing with WW and LDJ and being made to get into the vehicle around 1 o'clock iirc. Within an hour or so she "jumps" ???? Was this before or after the alleged stop at someone's house, or was Tawni's house supposed to have been this stop?

It may seem off track, but I think it's important: Why claim to not know who she is? (Sounds like a simple story that is easy to memorize in a short period of time.) When AF and LDJ were stopped down the road from Tawni's jump they didn't know if Tawni was alive or not.

I would imagine the sentence for kidnapping that results in the death of an individual would be substantially worse than reckless endangerment.

My point: If AF and LDJ were kidnapping Tawni, they'd sure have a good reason to stay quiet and stick to their stories.

 

[believe09]

Running some thoughts by everyone: (There are tons of things going on around me, so forgive me if this sounds fragmented!)

What happened between mom's house and the scene of Tawni's "accident"?

Tawni is seen arguing with WW and LDJ and being made to get into the vehicle around 1 o'clock iirc. Within an hour or so she "jumps" ???? Was this before or after the alleged stop at someone's house, or was Tawni's house supposed to have been this stop?

It may seem off track, but I think it's important: Why claim to not know who she is? (Sounds like a simple story that is easy to memorize in a short period of time.) When AF and LDJ were stopped down the road from Tawni's jump they didn't know if Tawni was alive or not.

I would imagine the sentence for kidnapping that results in the death of an individual would be substantially worse than reckless endangerment.

My point: If AF and LDJ were kidnapping Tawni, they'd sure have a good reason to stay quiet and stick to their stories.

I SO agree with this-keeping quiet has worked! Claiming this crazy chick jumped out the window of their car is much more innocuous than "Hey we kidnapped this pretty rich kid, we were beatin the crap out of her and then she jumped cause she thought since we were heading into the desert she was going to be buried in a hole in the ground."

 

[Lucy's mom]

I SO agree with this-keeping quiet has worked! Claiming this crazy chick jumped out the window of their car is much more innocuous than "Hey we kidnapped this pretty rich kid, we were beatin the crap out of her and then she jumped cause she thought since we were heading into the desert she was going to be buried in a hole in the ground."

Yes. I think that Tawni knew she was in a bad position. I think that she was getting the crap beat out of her and perhaps she did jump. Honestly, I think that if I was getting the crap beaten out of me and was being threatened with my life (which I think might have been happening whether they meant it or not), I would get my butt out of that car too. Adrenalin and panic mode can do crazy things. But I think the "jumping" out of the car had a little assistance with LDJ in the passenger seat.

 

[Cubby]

Yes. I think that Tawni knew she was in a bad position. I think that she was getting the crap beat out of her and perhaps she did jump. Honestly, I think that if I was getting the crap beaten out of me and was being threatened with my life (which I think might have been happening whether they meant it or not), I would get my butt out of that car too. Adrenalin and panic mode can do crazy things. But I think the "jumping" out of the car had a little assistance with LDJ in the passenger seat.

I differ. If Tawni was kneeling across LDJ's lap and leaning out the window to throw up LDJ would not have been able to push that weight up and out the window. WW however could have simply given her a shove- or even a kick if he had cruise control- and out she went. At that time if most of Tawni's weight was out the window it wouldn't have made a diffference if LDJ tried to grab onto her legs or not, she would not have been able to hold on.

 

[Lucy's mom]

I differ. If Tawni was kneeling across LDJ's lap and leaning out the window to throw up LDJ would not have been able to push that weight up and out the window. WW however could have simply given her a shove- or even a kick if he had cruise control- and out she went. At that time if most of Tawni's weight was out the window it wouldn't have made a diffference if LDJ tried to grab onto her legs or not, she would not have been able to hold on.

Hmmm....I see your point.

 

[Auburnmommyof2]

WW could have told LDL to grab the wheel, thus the reason for the swerving of the car, and pushed her out himself.

 

[Teresa Larson]

WW could have told LDL to grab the wheel, thus the reason for the swerving of the car, and pushed her out himself.

That'd be pretty hard to do with 3 people in the front of that Cadillac and Alonzo behind the steering wheel The reason the car swerved was because Alonzo was trying to reach for something in the back seat.

 

[VASHLEY88]

IMO, I think Alonzo and LDJ were not making it a very comfortable situation for Tawni. They were smoking weed, and if she is the troubled teen that everyone says she is, I'm sure she would've toked with them, too. And no THC showed on her tox screen. Obviously she felt that if she had smoked with them, she would not be in control of herself or the situation, so she was probably freaking out from the get-go. But who am I to judge? Maybe she just didn't like getting high. Just trying to put myself in her shoes (or lack, thereof).

Think about it-- new to prostitution, going to a truck stop that's secluded in the middle of nowhere, being in a car one girl she allegedly met the evening before and a pimp. If they were hitting her and kidnapping her by not letting her out the vehicle, she probably said "screw it" and jumped out.

Panicking, especially when feeling trapped, will make you do things that seem irrational, but when your adrenaline is pumping you just want to escape the situation at any cost. In high school, my sister and a couple of her friends had gotten robbed in North Carolina, and were sexually and physically assaulted and one of her friends got shot in the back and died downstairs. They were trapped upstairs, and my sister's friend punched a top story window out to free them and they all jumped out.. an hour or so later they were at my house at 3 AM, soaked in blood, screaming at my mother to call the police.

 

[Auburnmommyof2]

IMO, I think Alonzo and LDJ were not making it a very comfortable situation for Tawni. They were smoking weed, and if she is the troubled teen that everyone says she is, I'm sure she would've toked with them, too. And no THC showed on her tox screen. Obviously she felt that if she had smoked with them, she would not be in control of herself or the situation, so she was probably freaking out from the get-go. But who am I to judge? Maybe she just didn't like getting high. Just trying to put myself in her shoes (or lack, thereof).
Think about it-- new to prostitution, going to a truck stop that's secluded in the middle of nowhere, being in a car one girl she allegedly met the evening before and a pimp. If they were hitting her and kidnapping her by not letting her out the vehicle, she probably said "screw it" and jumped out.

Panicking, especially when feeling trapped, will make you do things that seem irrational, but when your adrenaline is pumping you just want to escape the situation at any cost. In high school, my sister and a couple of her friends had gotten robbed in North Carolina, and were sexually and physically assaulted and one of her friends got shot in the back and died downstairs. They were trapped upstairs, and my sister's friend punched a top story window out to free them and they all jumped out.. an hour or so later they were at my house at 3 AM, soaked in blood, screaming at my mother to call the police.

Where did we hear about the truck stop? That's new to me, can you fill me in? I think she realized she had gotten in over her head. I don't think she was planning on running away for good or going very far. I'm still not sure if she jumped or was pushed out of the car.