Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[elannia]

I believe so. Does anyone know if Ms. Stanton is still alive? Anyone on the board ever get a chance to talk to her?

Hey. Search forum for Melody Stanton and "the scream". Lot of interesting stuff on there

 

[Mama2JML]

You know, it may be minor..but it occurs to me that when little girls scream...they tend to keep doing it. It's rarely one scream and then they stop (unless someone quickly silence them before the next scream)

Adult women when they scream, usually they tend do it once and then are so self-conscious that they immediately stop. It's rarely that barage of scream after scream.

If JonBenet had screamed, the killer had to have subdued her quickly to prevent the subsequent screaming.

Yep, that's the general consensus among Stanton's believers.

 

[elannia]

Former BPD detective Robert Whitson. In the book, INJUSTICE, Whitson mentions two anonymous neighbors, who (as of 2000) had not been interviewed by LE nor the media. One of the neighbors observed two suspicious vehicles in the neighborhood within 24 hours before/after the crime, and the other neighbor witnessed "a white male walking around the Ramseys' home at dusk on Christmas." (Whitson, 2012)

I havent heard that. Or of the book. Where can I find it?

 

[elannia]

Yes, there is a thread bearing that title, although I have no idea why as the OP doesn't address Barnhill's purported "retraction" and I haven't been able to find a source supporting the title. Another neighbor, aside from Barnhill altogether, did observe a white male approaching the Ramsey home @ dusk on the 25th, according to Lou Smit and Robert Whitson.

How can I copy a post from another thread?

 

[Mama2JML]

I havent heard that. Or of the book. Where can I find it?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1475074824?pc_redir=1407047932&robot_redir=1

 

[Mama2JML]

How can I copy a post from another thread?

Highlight, copy, paste?... Or, summarize, then c&p the URL and share the post #.

 

[Anti-K]

Hi Anti-K. I hope you are feeling better. May pleasant thoughts be with you throughout your days. :loveyou:

He can commit the crime while the Ramsey's are asleep cause there is no risk of being caught in the act as long as nobody wakes.

But to leave an obvious piece of evidence like the ransom note out in the open presents a pointless risk.

The killer rather than simply take the pages and fold them in his pocket, decides to leave all 3 pages on the pad in the kitchen while he is in his hiding place. Which now means he has one more thing to do and one more trip to make to deliver this ransom note that he spent so much time writing.






You know, Anti-K... the ransom note is one of the few examples in this case that can reproduced by anyone. Try writing the note yourself...come up with your own conclusions. Experimentation is as much a part of investigative work, right?

1. One thing I will admit is that I may not have the exact pad that the Ramsey's used correctly. The one I used did curl, but that may also be due to humidity and how the pad was stored. My experiment was

2. As with any product, paper companies are always looking to improve their products. Even something as simple as legal paper can be tweaked. So what I am saying here is that I can't be certain that a pad made in 1996 exhibits the same properties as one made in 2014. You would agree with this, no?

So in answer to that, Yes, it is possible that the Ramsey's own pages did not curl up upon being ripped off the pad.

Later on next week I think you and i should discuss the potential timeline of this intruder. I think in many RDI's that is a prime example of where that theory falls apart.
You are game for that discussion with the rest of the group, I assume?

I’m not fond of the idea that the killer entered the house while the Ramseys were out, and waited until they returned and retired for the night. It could have happened that way, but I think it is as likely that the killer entered the home after everyone had retired for the night. Who knows?

If the note is left in the notepad, than it is to some degree hidden. It is not out in the open and no one will see it unless they decide to open the notepad and they open it to the note page. All one has to do, if in the house the whole time, is keep the notepad with them. Don’t put it out; keep it.

However, if one was going to leave it out, than they would likely leave it where they found it so that nothing would look out of place when the Ramseys returned home.

In either case, the ransom note should have been safe and secure in the notepad.

As far as timelines go, I think it likely that the pages were ripped from the notepad and the note placed on the stairs as the killer’s last act before exiting via the butler door (or, whatever door...).

I have no opinion on how long he was in the house, (except in regards to the minimum time NEEDED), but, I think the shorter the amount of time, the more believable. At least, I find the arguments for a shorter time more persuasive than those for a longer time.

I have written the note out, as I’m sure many others have done. I’ve tied knots; I’ve broken glass and tried to hide it in my pocket and walk around; I’ve hung 45 lbs with the cord and cut it under stress to see how the ends were effected; I’ve asphyxiated all manner of objects; I once used a handle with ~ 10 feet of cord between it and the object being asphyxiated (don’t ask!); I’ve broken paint brushes; I’ve.... well, you get the idea.
...

AK

 

[THE BUNK]

I’m not fond of the idea that the killer entered the house while the Ramseys were out, and waited until they returned and retired for the night. It could have happened that way, but I think it is as likely that the killer entered the home after everyone had retired for the night. Who knows?

That I agree with. It makes no sense to do so other than to create the Ramsey note.

So if we follow the idea that the killer staked out the home that day or waited till the Ramsey's came back then went to the house....were does that thread leave us.

 

[THE BUNK]

In either case, the ransom note should have been safe and secure in the notepad.

Not if the Ramseys are in the house. And besides, there is no reason for him to do so. He can take the pages and leave them in either his pocket or his hiding place.

 

[Chrishope]

I’m not fond of the idea that the killer entered the house while the Ramseys were out, and waited until they returned and retired for the night. It could have happened that way, but I think it is as likely that the killer entered the home after everyone had retired for the night. Who knows?

If the note is left in the notepad, than it is to some degree hidden. It is not out in the open and no one will see it unless they decide to open the notepad and they open it to the note page. All one has to do, if in the house the whole time, is keep the notepad with them. Don’t put it out; keep it.

However, if one was going to leave it out, than they would likely leave it where they found it so that nothing would look out of place when the Ramseys returned home.

In either case, the ransom note should have been safe and secure in the notepad.

As far as timelines go, I think it likely that the pages were ripped from the notepad and the note placed on the stairs as the killer’s last act before exiting via the butler door (or, whatever door...).

I have no opinion on how long he was in the house, (except in regards to the minimum time NEEDED), but, I think the shorter the amount of time, the more believable. At least, I find the arguments for a shorter time more persuasive than those for a longer time.

I have written the note out, as I’m sure many others have done. I’ve tied knots; I’ve broken glass and tried to hide it in my pocket and walk around; I’ve hung 45 lbs with the cord and cut it under stress to see how the ends were effected; I’ve asphyxiated all manner of objects; I once used a handle with ~ 10 feet of cord between it and the object being asphyxiated (don’t ask!); I’ve broken paint brushes; I’ve.... well, you get the idea.
...

AK

We don't know, but if he had options, why opt to enter after they had returned? The danger of being caught is much greater at that time. If he was staking out the house and saw them leave wouldn't that be the perfect time to enter? Not that I'm entertaining any IDI theory in any serious way.

 

[THE BUNK]

We don't know, but if he had options, why opt to enter after they had returned? The danger of being caught is much greater at that time. If he was staking out the house and saw them leave wouldn't that be the perfect time to enter? Not that I'm entertaining any IDI theory in any serious way.

The intruder has more options than the Ramseys. He can set his own timetable and choose whenever to attack. Unless the Ramseys are leaving the Boulder area forever, this guy can choose any day any time he wants to attack. He starts the clock once he decides to kill and/or abduct JonBenet Ramsey. If the situation isn't optimal, he can abort and try another day. Or even try another plan. There is no reason he has do anything that day in anyway.

The Ramseys don't have that luxury. Once JonBenet is dead, they are on a clock the ticks zero once JonBenet's absence is noticed.

 

[THE BUNK]

I will say one thing about Anti K's theory. It does make sense...if the killer had a legitimate reason to be in the house in the first place.

If the killer was a member of the family, a housekeeper, real close friend he could explain away his prescence. He could even explain away the ransom note as being a joke that Burke got him to do. This person could always just walk out the front door and say goodbye to the Ramseys and plan something else. Since no act has been done, the only thing there is a ransom note that the Ramseys would consider a joke and most likely toss.

Of course this intruder would then have to be:

1. Someone extremely close to the Ramsey family.
2. Someone that would be the last person the Ramseys would expect to do harm to their family.

Such a person can't be that hard to identify.

 

[Anti-K]

Not if the Ramseys are in the house. And besides, there is no reason for him to do so. He can take the pages and leave them in either his pocket or his hiding place.

He could have left the entire notepad, ransom note intact, in his hiding place. He could have taken I tout of the notepad and folded it up, but the evidence shows that this did not happen.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

I will say one thing about Anti K's theory. It does make sense...if the killer had a legitimate reason to be in the house in the first place.

If the killer was a member of the family, a housekeeper, real close friend he could explain away his prescence. He could even explain away the ransom note as being a joke that Burke got him to do. This person could always just walk out the front door and say goodbye to the Ramseys and plan something else. Since no act has been done, the only thing there is a ransom note that the Ramseys would consider a joke and most likely toss.

Of course this intruder would then have to be:

1. Someone extremely close to the Ramsey family.
2. Someone that would be the last person the Ramseys would expect to do harm to their family.

Such a person can't be that hard to identify.

What theory are you talking about?
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

We don't know, but if he had options, why opt to enter after they had returned? The danger of being caught is much greater at that time. If he was staking out the house and saw them leave wouldn't that be the perfect time to enter? Not that I'm entertaining any IDI theory in any serious way.

[assuming that this crime was committed as planned and intended and that the killer was a stranger]

The killer needed to wait for the Ramseys to retire for the night. So, it makes sense that he would “stake” out the house late in the evening. If he stakes out the house too early, he risks being seen, and much worse – being noticed. He has no way of knowing that the Ramseys will leave the house, and for all he knows the Ramseys could be the ones receiving guests. If the Ramseys don’t leave, then his stake-out could take hours.

These are hours where not only would he risk being seen watching the house, or seen continually returning to it, but he also assumes the risk of being missed – it’s Christmas, someone might wonder where he was all day.
...

AK

 

[THE BUNK]

These are hours where not only would he risk being seen watching the house, or seen continually returning to it, but he also assumes the risk of being missed – it’s Christmas, someone might wonder where he was all day. istmas, someone might wonder where he was all day.

1. He doesn't need to wait if he knows the Ramseys are out at that party. He knows exactly when they are back. Remember, he needs to strike when the Ramsey's are asleep. Hell if he wants to he can stake out the party instead of the Ramsey house. That would actually make more sense, IMHO. Or he could actually BE at the party. Would give him all the opportunity to know exactly when the Ramseys arrive.

2. The only reason he needs to fear being noticed watching the house is if he lives in the neighborhood or is known by the Ramseys.

3. If the killer had a family that he needed to account for, he still has to explain why he is not in bed from 11:00pm to 4:00 am. You also have to calculate that there need to be prep time before and after the crime. Especially if kidnapping was the motive.

3. You know, it occurs to me...where would you need to be to stake out the Ramsey house? Presumably you would need to be facing a direction where their bedroom light can be visible.

 

[THE BUNK]

Did the Ramsey's ever notice anything amiss with the house when they arrived from the party?

 

[Anti-K]

1. He doesn't need to wait if he knows the Ramseys are out at that party. He knows exactly when they are back. Remember, he needs to strike when the Ramsey's are asleep. Hell if he wants to he can stake out the party instead of the Ramsey house. That would actually make more sense, IMHO. Or he could actually BE at the party. Would give him all the opportunity to know exactly when the Ramseys arrive.

2. The only reason he needs to fear being noticed watching the house is if he lives in the neighborhood or is known by the Ramseys.

3. If the killer had a family that he needed to account for, he still has to explain why he is not in bed from 11:00pm to 4:00 am. You also have to calculate that there need to be prep time before and after the crime. Especially if kidnapping was the motive.

3. You know, it occurs to me...where would you need to be to stake out the Ramsey house? Presumably you would need to be facing a direction where their bedroom light can be visible.

As I’ve said, I have no idea when the killer entered the house. My post was in reply to Chrishope, who asked, “if he had options, why opt to enter after they had returned?”

Persons intent on murder generally don’t want to be seen anywhere near where their crime will occur. Staking out, means hiding in the bushes/trees, skulking about, sitting in a parked car, or driving around the block over and over, or walking past the house over and over, etc...

IMO, the killer was a stranger to the Ramseys. So, someone who had no idea that the Ramseys would leave the house and afford him the opportunity to enter and find a hiding place so that he could wait hours for them to return and retire for the night.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Did the Ramsey's ever notice anything amiss with the house when they arrived from the party?

No. At least, I don’t recall them saying any such thing.

If the killer entered while they were out, and planned to hide until everyone had retired for the night than he probably would have been careful so as to not disturb anything that the Ramseys might notice before going to bed. And, there would have been nothing for them to notice if her entered after they went to bed.
...

AK

 

[Tawny]

Here's my two cents regarding being inside the house and waiting until everyone goes to sleep... He had no real way of knowing if the family was asleep. If he's downstairs (presumably in the basement) and their rooms are all on the 2nd and 3rd floors, he may not have even been able to hear them walking around. In both homes in which I've had a basement, you can hear people moving around on the first floor, but not on the higher levels, from the basement.

So, IMVHO, that scenario is WAY too risky. Assuming he stole JBR from her bed, he risked bumping into a family member in a hallway or on some stairs because he very very likely could not hear them upstairs from the basement.

Again, all JMO.