Is Terri's Odd Behavior Part of Her Plan?

[Day Dreamer]

Problem is, she hasn't made any effort to fight the emergency RO, and her attorney seems to have indicated she doesn't plan to any time soon.

But given the procedural circumstances, the judge can't give her supervised visits unless she formally asks for them. I suspect her attorney's real reason for advising her against doing this is that he thinks she's so unstable that she might just start blurting out information in a hearing, even with her attorney present and having previously given her careful guidance on how to handle provocative questioning. And that suggests that he's worried that there's information that she could blurt out that would contribute to her being convicted of a crime. And it's hard for me to see how that could be a concern if she hasn't actually committed any crime.

Respectfully bolded & snipped ...

Yes, I do find Terri just giving up and not contesting visitation ... even if it is only supervised visitation ... odd behavior for a stay at home mom that by all accounts adored her child.

You also make good points in your last paragraph.

I'm glad I asked this question because I am really enjoying reading everyone's different prospectives. It has given me a lot to think about. Thank you to everyone that replied.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Quick question - would the judge have granted the restraining order if there was no evidence of the MFH plot? Would he have done this just based on the word of the landscaper, or would he/she have required some other evidence first?

The initial restraining order is granted on allegations made by the petitioner. No other evidence need be presented. Allegations means that the petitioner said something happened without presenting any supporting evidence. That's all it takes.

Seriously.

As an example, in 2005 a woman in New Mexico petitioned a judge for a restraining order against David Letterman, alleging he was communicating with her via his show using secret words, gestures and eye movements.

The petition was granted.

David Letterman contested the order and it was immediately lifted.

Anyone can allege anything. When someone petitions the court for a restraining order, it is assumed by the court that they will be able to present evidence to support their allegations. The petitioner does not have to present that proof in order to get a temporary restraining order.

If the respondent chooses to contest the restraining order, they have a certain time period in which to do so (in Oregon, it is 30 days). If the respondent contests the restraining order, then they have a right to a show-cause hearing within two weeks of filing the notice to contest.

That hearing is called a show-cause hearing because the petitioner must show evidence to support their allegations.

If the respondent chooses not to contest the restraining order, then it stays in effect for a year. Choosing not to contest the restraining order is not an admission of guilt; all it means is that the respondent chose not to contest the order.

I'm trying to come up with a list of definite odd behaviors that are not just he-said/she-said, and the MFH plot is a big one, but LE hasn't indicated if there's evidence of it or not, so I've been assuming it's just based on the landscaper's word - but would that have been enough to support all of the recent legal actions against Terri?

Yes.

Odd behaviors list I have so far:

MFH plot (assuming there is evidence of such which hasn't yet been released to the public.)

Showing up at the gym asking about Kyron and Baby K.

Telling the reporters that everything is ok after Kaine had already moved out (acting like she was blindsided, but I don't think she was being truthful).

Posting on FB that she's "hitting the gym" shortly after Kyron disappeared.

Sexting with one of Kaine's former friends, who I think (correct me if I'm wrong?) was one of the people running the website for Kyron, also shortly after Kyron's disappearance.

3 polygraphs, which include failure and walking out in the middle of one of them.

Not once coming out to the public with a statement claiming her innocence! (this is the biggest one for me!)

Voluntarily surrendering custody of Baby K, the house, etc. without a fight (do innocent people do this? I find it odd), yet asking for money from Kaine.

Being untruthful about her whereabouts on the day Kyron went missing (was it Kaine or LE who confirmed this?) - her cell phone pings and credit card usage not matching where she said she was.

Am I missing anything?

I don't know if you are missing anything.

My problem with the above list is that, individually, every single one of those things could have an innocent explanation.

And even if they are all true, they do not add up to convincing me beyond a reasonable doubt that she was responsible for Kyron's disappearance.

 

[Snowball58]

The initial restraining order is granted on allegations made by the petitioner. No other evidence need be presented. Allegations means that the petitioner said something happened without presenting any supporting evidence. That's all it takes.

Seriously.

As an example, in 2005 a woman in New Mexico petitioned a judge for a restraining order against David Letterman, alleging he was communicating with her via his show using secret words, gestures and eye movements.

The petition was granted.

David Letterman contested the order and it was immediately lifted.

Anyone can allege anything. When someone petitions the court for a restraining order, it is assumed by the court that they will be able to present evidence to support their allegations. The petitioner does not have to present that proof in order to get a temporary restraining order.

If the respondent chooses to contest the restraining order, they have a certain time period in which to do so (in Oregon, it is 30 days). If the respondent contests the restraining order, then they have a right to a show-cause hearing within two weeks of filing the notice to contest.

That hearing is called a show-cause hearing because the petitioner must show evidence to support their allegations.

If the respondent chooses not to contest the restraining order, then it stays in effect for a year. Choosing not to contest the restraining order is not an admission of guilt; all it means is that the respondent chose not to contest the order.



Yes.



I don't know if you are missing anything.

My problem with the above list is that, individually, every single one of those things could have an innocent explanation.

And even if they are all true, they do not add up to convincing me beyond a reasonable doubt that she was responsible for Kyron's disappearance.

I'm not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt either - I'll leave that the the jury. But making an educated guess as to the most likely scenario, given what we know today, is really the best any of us can do.

What we know tomorrow may totally change what we think today, but as it stands right now, I can't overlook the fact that Terri's own spouse, who is working so closely with LE, believes she's responsible, not to mention Kyron's mother and stepdad (who is an LE officer too).

That, in addition to her odd behavior before and after Kyron's disappearance, her access to the school and to Kyron, all of the remarkable coincidences that day (the CSI t-shirt, the science fair, switching vehicles, the white truck sightings, the confusion about the doctor's appointment, lack of notification from the school) - it all points back to Terri. The simple explanation is that she's responsible. This may turn out to not be a simple case, but before I can believe any far-fetched scenarios I have to look at Terri first. Until LE clears her, I can't wrap my brain around any other possibility.

I will say that if Terri is not involved, she is really unlucky.

 

[Donjeta]

I think that in most cases it is pretty hard to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt on the basis of media information only because they only present a partial story, lots of evidence is left out and the rest of what they report may be confusingly and misleadingly presented or just plain wrong sometimes.

 

[debs]

Where is it posted that Terri was acting odd before Kyron disappeared? Outside of Kaine and Desiree, has there been anyone else who can substantiate that?

 

[crystalgenie]

I think we all have odd behavior...

A friend of mine just texted me telling me that she wanted to choke the life out of her husband. The reasons why follow.

1. She was gone for the weekend and he never fed the dogs.

2. The kitchen was clean when she left but when she gets home it looked like a tornado had hit it. (husband had buddies over)

3. She had to pee when she got home and found NO TOILET PAPER entire house.

I told her she better hope nothing happens to hubby. The police will be subpoenaing our cell phone records.

I don't agree with some of her activities but when my parents died I had some really bad behavior. Everyone reacts differently to stress.

 

[Snowball58]

Where is it posted that Terri was acting odd before Kyron disappeared? Outside of Kaine and Desiree, has there been anyone else who can substantiate that?

I was specifically referring the the MFH plot, which occurred months before Kyron disappeared. I would consider trying to hire a hitman pretty darn odd...

And before you say it, I know, I know, how do we know she REALLY attempted to hire a hitman? Well, I'm basing it on the info we have to date. The landscaper said so, and Kaine and Desiree believe it to be true. LE also believes it to be true or they never would have tried the sting operation (I think they have enough info to believe it's true but lack the concrete evidence to charge her with it.)

It's been the basis of a restraining order and seems to be the catalyst of everything else that followed - Kaine's custody of Baby K, filing for divorce, forcing Terri out of the house, etc. She's never once issued a statement denying the allegation. For now, until someone can show evidence to the contrary, I must believe it's true. If Terri had even once come out and issued a statement saying it never happened...or tried to fight for custody of her daughter, or fight to stay in her home or fight to save her marriage to Kaine by convincing him it's not true. But nope - not a peep or a boo out of her.

 

[TxLady2]

I indirectly know someone who became a widow at 20, her husband died in a house fire she had sex with his best friend the night of the funeral. When she finally got into counseling the counselor told her that is a common thing that happens when people are overwhelmed with grief you will seek "relief" at any cost, I thought it was the strangest thing I had ever heard and then she hears it's not that uncommon....

Many people use sex as comfort when they're stressed or full of grief. My husband is one. Not going to say any more about that.
Some people just seem to thrive on it, for all kinds of reasons. A lot of women, like Terri possibly, use it to reaffirm to themselves that they are loved and desired.
I don't find the sexting too outrageous, because Kaine had left her, and she needed someone to lean on. And for all we know, Kaine may have left her emotionally long before Kyron disappeared.

 

[TxLady2]

I can believe she tried to hire a landscaper. Harder to believe she tried to solicit him to murder her husband. Did she know this landscaper that well? Would you walk up to a guy that does your yard and say, "It's hot out, here's a glass of lemonade, and would you please kill my husband for me?"

As for Terri not standing up and declaring her innocence... why should she? Hardly anyone is going to believe her anyway.

 

[cluciano63]

I find it odd only to the extent that she allowed herself to lose everything and if she knew where Kyron was and that he could be brought back safely, I think she would have done so. So she either truly does not know or she knows that he can't be brought back safely.

 

[Chewy]

I can believe she tried to hire a landscaper. Harder to believe she tried to solicit him to murder her husband. Did she know this landscaper that well? Would you walk up to a guy that does your yard and say, "It's hot out, here's a glass of lemonade, and would you please kill my husband for me?"
As for Terri not standing up and declaring her innocence... why should she? Hardly anyone is going to believe her anyway.

I've seen this type of comment on here a lot and I want to ask seriously if people are trying to be funny? I'm just puzzled because it's like "of course she didn't say that why would you even suggest such a thing?"

It's quite obvious she knew the landscaper for alittle bit, probably texted him, flirted with him etc. The guy probably never even took her seriously when she said it. No money was exchanged and no plan was set up. So why do people keep acting like she actually was serious and just strolled up to a relative stranger and popped the questions?????:waitasec::waitasec:

 

[Snowball58]

It was also stated somewhere that the sexual *OVERTURES* she exchanged with MC were similar to those she exchanged with the MFH landscaper, and I recall reading that she offered sex as payment for the MFH. I will try to find the links to this info, but I know I read it somewhere. So seems to me she knew the landscaper well enough to be sending him *SEXUAL OVERTURES*, and perhaps LE has obtained these *OVERTURES* and I might even venture to guess some other communications that back up the landscaper's claims. No one has yet reported what the nature of her relationship with him was, how long it lasted, or what the circumstances were behind the plot. Why would anyone assume he was literally hired to mow the lawn, and out of the blue she asked him to off Kaine? That's far-fetched. If the MFH accusations are true, I think it makes much more sense to assume she knew the guy and perhaps had a relationship with him (or attempted to develop one) and the rest happened from there.

Just because LE and the family are only releasing tiny tidbits of info to the public doesn't mean that's all there is to the story!

 

[BeanE]

It was also stated somewhere that the sexual images she exchanged with MC were similar to those she exchanged with the MFH landscaper, and I recall reading that she offered sex as payment for the MFH. I will try to find the links to this info, but I know I read it somewhere. So seems to me she knew the landscaper well enough to be sending him sexty pics, and perhaps LE has obtained these pics and I might even venture to guess some other communications that back up the landscaper's claims. No one has yet reported what the nature of her relationship with him was, how long it lasted, or what the circumstances were behind the plot. Why would anyone assume he was literally hired to mow the lawn, and out of the blue she asked him to off Kaine? That's far-fetched. If the MFH accusations are true, I think it makes much more sense to assume she knew the guy and perhaps had a relationship with him (or attempted to develop one) and the rest happened from there.

Just because LE and the family are only releasing tiny tidbits of info to the public doesn't mean that's all there is to the story!

Oh Lord. Definitely gotta see those links.

 

[BeanE]

I've seen this type of comment on here a lot and I want to ask seriously if people are trying to be funny? I'm just puzzled because it's like "of course she didn't say that why would you even suggest such a thing?"

It's quite obvious she knew the landscaper for alittle bit, probably texted him, flirted with him etc. The guy probably never even took her seriously when she said it. No money was exchanged and no plan was set up. So why do people keep acting like she actually was serious and just strolled up to a relative stranger and popped the questions?????:waitasec::waitasec:

Because it's difficult to conjure up a reasonable envisioning of how that conversation would go with a landscaper one just hired.

:cow:

 

[Snowball58]

Oh Lord. Definitely gotta see those links.

From the RO, page 11, lines 3-5

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

"Law enforcement has informed Petitioner's attorney that Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner."

Still searching for the other one - I know I read somewhere that she offered the landscaper sex as payment for the MFH, I will persevere until I find it!

 

[Snowball58]

Because it's difficult to conjure up a reasonable envisioning of how that conversation would go with a landscaper one just hired.

:cow:

You're assuming he was just some random landscaper she hired and propositioned for the MFH. How do we know he wasn't someone she met at the gym or at the grocery store and had an affair with, who happened to be a professional landscaper? Assumptions can go both ways.

 

[Snowball58]

Ok, getting closer, but this isn't the exact one I was thinking of...

http://www.kgw.com/news/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html

"The landscaper - whom Terri had hired to do work last November without Kaine's knowledge - came forward to investigators as they reached out to everyone that they could find who had had contact with the family. While he said he had no intention of carrying out the plot, he did believe that he would be getting something from Terri.

"She led him on," sources said."

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Many people use sex as comfort when they're stressed or full of grief. My husband is one. Not going to say any more about that.
Some people just seem to thrive on it, for all kinds of reasons. A lot of women, like Terri possibly, use it to reaffirm to themselves that they are loved and desired.
I don't find the sexting too outrageous, because Kaine had left her, and she needed someone to lean on. And for all we know, Kaine may have left her emotionally long before Kyron disappeared.

I find *her* sexting moderately outrageous under the circumstances (there was an awful lot of it, and she was still presumably the primary caregiver to a 19 month old toddler at the time). But what puts the sexting issue firmly on my radar screen as relevant to the investigation is MC's willing and ongoing involvement in it, and the fact that it spilled over into her showing him the sealed RO and him going off and using info from the that to try to track down Kaine and Baby K's new address.

The phenomenon of out of control sex drive in times of extreme stress and/or grief is real, and well within the range of normal behavior for people who are basically mentally healthy. But *she* is the one with the extreme stress and supposed grief, not MC. And poring over an RO isn't exactly a sexual experience for most people! Neither is googling an address you got from a RO you know you weren't supposed to have access to. What caused *his* judgement to fly out the window? Terri doesn't look to me like a "hottie" right now -- certainly not a woman that would cause any normal man to suddenly start doing things that are very likely to permanently ruin his reputation in a very public way and get him in legal trouble related to a possible child murder case.

 

[BeanE]

From the RO, page 11, lines 3-5

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

"Law enforcement has informed Petitioner's attorney that Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner."

Still searching for the other one - I know I read somewhere that she offered the landscaper sex as payment for the MFH, I will persevere until I find it!

The two things you contended you'd read, which I was requesting links for were:

- that Terri exchanged sexual images with the landscaper, and

- that Terri offered sex as payment for the alleged murder for hire plot

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5425123&postcount=52"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Is Terri's Odd Behavior Part of Her Plan?[/ame]


What you quoted and linked here says neither. Do you have any links for your two contentions?

 

[Snowball58]

The two things you contended you'd read, which I was requesting links for were:

- that Terri exchanged sexual images with the landscaper, and

- that Terri offered sex as payment for the alleged murder for hire plot

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Is Terri's Odd Behavior Part of Her Plan?


What you quoted and linked here says neither. Do you have any links for your two contentions?

Forgive me, BeanE, "sexual overtures" is more accurate and I mis-remembered what I had read (the comparison of her overtures to MC being similar to her overtures to the landscaper registered in my mind as sexting, but I suppose we don't know for sure.) But I guess we do know now that she had more than a casual landscaper/homemaker relationship with him, so I think it's relevant nonetheless. I will edit my original post, and still searching for a link to the second contention. Will delete my post if I can't find it, but I'm certain I read it.