Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #12

[Dotta]

Except ... the IDF is carrying out surgical strikes.
On known Hamas locations.

This is a war and if Israel doesn't deal with this, how many more might be murdered at the next Oct. 7th raid ?
I think Hamas and possibly with the backing of other nations or groups -- are resolved to carry out more slaughters.
How many innocents could die if Hamas wins this skirmish ?
Instead of 1,400, it could be 5,000.

If bombs are used, it could save IDF lives and that's a good thing.
Hamas have killed innocents on both sides of the fence and imo, they are never going to stop unless they are stopped.

Comparing a bomb strike to a ground invasion from house to house, it makes sense to wipe out the enemy from above.
More lives might be lost if the IDF have to continually battle it block by block.
The IDF has made great effort to avoid civilian casualties and I applaud them for this.
They're under much more scrutiny than Hamas which is unfair.

How many Gazan citizens have died from outright murder from Hamas -- or their misfired rockets ?
Sad that so much carnage has been unleashed on Gaza by Hamas, the blood of the civilians is on the terrorists' hands.

If precise strikes is the only way to ensure Oct. 7th doesn't happen again, then the IDF is doing what it must.
Israel did not start this battle, but if they don't press on and do whatever they can, their nation and very lives are at stake.
If it takes bombs, then maybe no more innocent lives will be destroyed.

This is about survival, not just a difference in how Gaza wants to be governed.
Hoping they can break free courtesy of the IDF and forge a future without hating Israel !
Omo.

I believe in this saying:

"Prevention is better than cure".

It should be a motto for politicians.
It certainly is mine

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

.
Re: release of hostages ...

"Israel’s Channel 12 TV said the first releases would take place Thursday or Friday and continue for several days."

Netanyahu says Israel will continue war against Hamas after cease-fire

In comments Tuesday ahead of an expected Cabinet vote on a cease-fire proposal, Netanyahu vowed to press ahead. “We are at war, and we will continue the war,” he said. “We will continue until we achieve all our goals.”

www.pbs.org

 

[Katrinepa]

FACT CHECK BY NEWSWEEK
Did Israel build bunker under the hospital?

The IDF, which has called on all militants within the hospital to surrender, has said publicly since the conflict escalated following Hamas' initial October 7 attack that the group's continued military use of the hospital "jeopardizes its protected status under international law, and enabled ample time to stop this unlawful abuse of the hospital."

The Claim
HA, who is described on X, formerly Twitter, as a social activist, wrote in a post published on Wednesday that Israel built the bunker beneath the hospital in 1983, when it controlled Gaza.

She referenced a 2014 story published by Tablet magazine, which alluded to multiple news outlets' reports about conflict at that time between Israel and Hamas. The magazine stated without attribution that the bunker was built in 1983.

HA's claim, which has been echoed by some on social media, states that Israel's raid of the hospital it controls does not provide justification but makes the nation more culpable in its purported violence.

"Israel has still not presented any proof that Hamas has been using the hospital or the bunker that Israel built as its 'command and control,'" HA said. "Both local and foreign doctors have denied any such allegation, and Israel rejected offers to have an international delegation inspect."

She added: "There is no one to document except the military itself, which will show you what it wants the world to believe."

Newsweek has examined the context of these statements to judge the comparison's fairness and accuracy.

The Facts
The bunker, reportedly constructed decades ago, includes a secure underground operating room and tunnel network.

Reports by left-wing Israeli newspaper Haaretz and other outlets have specifically mentioned the hospital's Building No. 2, which it says was built as an add-on in the mid-1980s and contains a large cement basement initially intended for laundry and administrative tasks.

The excavation of the underground concrete floor was corroborated by online English-language Israeli publication Ynetnews.

Last week, IDF spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said in a series of media briefings that the nation's intelligence has proven that Hamas occupies the bunker as its main command area.

The Ruling
True.

Multiple sources have corroborated that a bunker or basement was built at Israel's discretion in the 1980s.

It remains unclear whether Hamas operates the space beneath the hospital as a major military headquarters, even though the IDF has presented evidence of weapons stashed in the hospital.

Fact check: Did Israel build bunker under Shifa Hospital?

Israel Defense Forces on Wednesday entered Gaza's largest hospital, which it says houses Hamas' main command center.

www.newsweek.com

Hamas and IDF spout propaganda ad nauseum, and the world has no way of knowing Truth. What we do know is that innocents are caught between two militant groups, and They are the losers The World must end this.

 

[Momoffourboys]

The heartbreaking testimony of a husbandand father whose entire family was abducted byHamas.#BringThemHome

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727047729136927178

 

[Momoffourboys]

The Israeli ministers who partook in the cabinet meeting were informed that the first release of hostages may happen as early as Thursday.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727067074025939387

 

[Chimera]

I believe in this saying:

"Prevention is better than cure".

It should be a motto for politicians.
It certainly is mine

JMO

Bbm.
Fair enough ... and not bad advice at all.

But think about whom Israel is dealing with.
I believe a two state solution was proposed, among other possibilities.
Gaza apparently rejected everything ?
But prevention was tried !
Omo.

 

[margarita25]

In my opinion, from a factual, military, geopolitical perspective, anyone who messes with the United States (or Israel) is going to get annihilated. Every country knows this. What did HAMAS expect? I/we didn’t make it this way. It’s just the way it is. US is a super power.

And it is sad, sad and all the wounded of any innocents kills me. It is an absolute tragedy this is all happening. War is brutal, brutal. I had to leave the Ukraine thread I couldn’t handle it. We have to remember this was a modern day Holocaust. Hamas brought this on their own people and it is sickening, horrific they did this and started this, with unimaginable brutality.

For those calling for a ceasefire, from the aspect of a constructive discussion, I really don’t know the answer, Israel is trying to eliminate the terroristic infrastructure and hundreds, thousands (not sure what the number is) of these terrorists who govern. Hamas has shown the beyond brutality of what they will do and they are the ones in power. How does Israel dismantle them without harming civilians when they set up shop in hospitals and infiltrate themselves within the common people? I don’t know what the answer is. I of course oppose, always oppose, any harm to children, civilians…I wish it didn’t have to be this way…they have to stop a terrorist organization and major future threat from continuing to govern.

What is the answer? Respectfully asking and want to hear ideas, are some saying Israel should just let this slaughter go, allow Hamas to continue to pose a threat to not only Israel, but to the entire civilized world, continue to conduct modern day Holocausts?

There is no candy coating how horrific it has been in Gaza. I can’t even imagine, no food, no water, no power, displacement, blood and death and bombs everywhere, the whole thing is just beyond horrific.

 

[Chimera]

Hamas and IDF spout propaganda ad nauseum, and the world has no way of knowing Truth. What we do know is that innocents are caught between two militant groups, and They are the losers The World must end this.

Emphasis mine.
Agreed !

Israel is trying to end this.
I wish they had more support from other nations.
This shouldn't be solely on them.
Omo.

 

[SouthAussie]

Speaking after a meeting with his war cabinet and the wider security cabinet, the Israeli prime minister said accepting a deal was “a difficult decision but it’s a right decision”.

Netanyahu said the US president, Joe Biden, had helped “improve the framework being laid out before you ... to include more hostages at a lower price”, adding: "The entire security establishment fully supports it".

Israeli cabinet approves deal for pause in fighting – as it happened

This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Katrinepa]

I believe in this saying:

"Prevention is better than cure".

It should be a motto for politicians.
It certainly is mine

JMO

Bbm.
Fair enough ... and not bad advice at all.

But think about whom Israel is dealing with.
I believe a two state solution was proposed, among other possibilities.
Gaza apparently rejected everything ?
But prevention was tried !
Omo.

The People/Prisoners living in Gaza, the Open Air Concentration Camp, were not consulted, and once Hamas was elected, they have not allowed elections since. Hamas has a stranglehold on Gaza, and no protesting allowed...

 

[SouthAussie]

Yahya Sinwar, 61, was a founding member of Hamas and has risen to become perhaps its most powerful figure.

Born in a refugee camp at the southern end of the Gaza Strip, Sinwar was drawn into Islamist activism when he studied at the Islamic University of Gaza in the early 1980s

In 1987, he joined the newly created group Hamas, and was made head of its nascent intelligence service.

Arrested in 1988 and sentenced to four life sentences for attempted murder and sabotage, he then spent 23 years in Israeli jails.

In prison, Sinwar refused to talk to any Israelis and personally punished those who did, pressing the face of one into a makeshift stove, according to one Israeli former interrogator who worked at the institution where Sinwar was held.

“He’s 1,000% committed and 1,000% violent, a very, very hard man,” said the interrogator.

But he is also a sophisticated political operator with a sharp mind. Sinwar used his time in prison to learn Hebrew and study his enemy, gaining knowledge that may be helpful now.

Israeli cabinet approves deal for pause in fighting – as it happened

This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

 

[margarita25]

Speaking after a meeting with his war cabinet and the wider security cabinet, the Israeli prime minister said accepting a deal was “a difficult decision but it’s a right decision”.

Netanyahu said the US president, Joe Biden, had helped “improve the framework being laid out before you ... to include more hostages at a lower price”, adding: "The entire security establishment fully supports it".

Israeli cabinet approves deal for pause in fighting – as it happened

This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

No matter how one feels about BIden, one must give credit where credit is due.

Well done, Joe. You’ve been as proactive as one can be as a leader in this situation. Maybe not as sleepy as some may say so lol. It takes a lot of energy, ti:, and effort to do what you’ve been doing. Hoping the release actually happens.

 

[SouthAussie]

No matter how one feels about BIden, one must give credit where credit is due.

Well done. Hoping the release actually happens.

Biden is a very good diplomat and has a lot of respect in international communities. imo

 

[Simply Southern]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pm-tells-cabinet-hostage-deal-to-include-red-cross-access-to-remaining-abductees/

LIVE UPDATEFROM THE LIVEBLOG OF TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 2023

PM tells cabinet hostage deal to include Red Cross access to remaining abductees​

​

By TAL SCHNEIDER Today, 9:54 pm 1
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made it clear during cabinet discussions on the proposed hostage deal tonight that part of the brewing agreement will include access by the Red Cross to the abductees who will remain as hostages in Gaza, including supplying them with medicine, his office says.

Yea, right...they don't even know where some hostages are located. Moo

I don't see RC going in, they will be afraid. Moo

 

[fred&edna]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727079137720877472

A Unknown Drone has possibly entered Israeli Airspace from Southern Lebanon.

 

[MyBelle]

Hamas and IDF spout propaganda ad nauseum, and the world has no way of knowing Truth. What we do know is that innocents are caught between two militant groups, and They are the losers The World must end this.

The world is learning the truth thanks to the former Israel military who are speaking out. I read an opinion piece in the NY Times a few weeks ago by Benzion Sanders, who has worked with Breaking the Silence and also with Extend. He refers to himself as a human rights activist.

Mr. Sanders points out that the former head of the Israeli security service Shin Bet, has argued for years that Palestinian terror can be defeated only by creating Palestinian hope.

I can't link it because it is his opinion, but I do trust him and not the propaganda.

JMO

 

[DFWNF]

Hamas and IDF spout propaganda ad nauseum, and the world has no way of knowing Truth. What we do know is that innocents are caught between two militant groups, and They are the losers The World must end this.

But how much are other countries responsible? And why?

 

[Elley Mae]

Is there a way to ensure your donation goes specificly to the Red Cross vice any of it's subsidaries?

Also want to point out that I have seen excellent and ethical work being done by the Red Crescent in some very cra*ppy places while they too were under fire.

I think the difference here is that is a subsidary of a subsidary" ICRC ---> Red Crescent ---> Palestinian Red Crescent. The Palestinian Red Crescent who have unfortunately been caught in complicity with Hamas by transporting terrorists from/to battles and delivering communications from one HQ to another, utilizing ambulances in an attempt to get Hamas fighters out through the crossing to Egypt instead of the injured innocent Palestinians who desperatly required medical evacuation etc.

Not to get off topic, when I asked united way reps about my money going to what I wanted, answer was not really. I no longer gave.

 

[margarita25]

How true!

No one has ever eliminated terrorism with bombs.​

JMO

:thinking:

There will always be the threat of terrorism, of course.

But enemies have been stopped, right? What does history tell us?

 

[SouthAussie]

Bbm.
Fair enough ... and not bad advice at all.

But think about whom Israel is dealing with.
I believe a two state solution was proposed, among other possibilities.
Gaza apparently rejected everything ?
But prevention was tried !
Omo.

Only 35% of Israelis support a two state solution (as at March & April 2023).

Israelis have grown more skeptical of a two-state solution

Only 35% of Israelis believe that Israel and an independent Palestine can coexist peacefully, down from 44% in 2017.

www.pewresearch.org