Joan Rivers 'stopped breathing' in surgery

[LinasK]

The endoscopy your daughter had was via the esophagus. Joan Rivers was via her trachea.

You are correct about this. I still stand by my claim(s).

 

[LinasK]

This doesn't even appear in quotation marks. I don't believe the actual statement from the clinic has a "before" in it.

"A biopsy of the vocal cords has never been performed at Yorkville Endoscopy," the clinic's statement said.

http://www.cbs19.tv/story/26502730/...l-joan-rivers-doctors-were-qualified-equipped

From this article: "to take a scalpel to a polyp-like growth on her vocal cord." "General anesthesia has never been administered at Yorkville Endoscopy," the statement said. "The type of sedation used at Yorkville Endoscopy is monitored anesthesia care. Our anesthesiologists utilize light to moderate sedation."

IF this were true, which appears it is not, then the clinic would have been performing surgery under local anesthesia. Generally, when vocal cord endoscopies are done, it is to determine if nodules are present. They are not usually cut out at the same time.

 

[jjenny]

From this article: "to take a scalpel to a polyp-like growth on her vocal cord." "General anesthesia has never been administered at Yorkville Endoscopy," the statement said. "The type of sedation used at Yorkville Endoscopy is monitored anesthesia care. Our anesthesiologists utilize light to moderate sedation."

IF this were true, which appears it is not, then the clinic would have been performing surgery under local anesthesia. Generally, when vocal cord endoscopies are done, it is to determine if nodules are present. They are not usually cut out at the same time.

"to take a scalpel to a polyp-like growth on her vocal cord" appeared in the report (attributed to an anonymous source) that the clinic is denying. They are saying they didn't do a biopsy. Ever. Never.

 

[LinasK]

"to take a scalpel to a polyp-like growth on her vocal cord" appeared in the report (attributed to an anonymous source) that the clinic is denying. They are saying they didn't do a biopsy. Ever. Never.

I agree with you. But seeing that in print, I could see how someone misunderstood and ran with the story. That's probably the basis for Melissa thinking she has a malpractice case.

 

[nrdsb4]

BBM. This is why I responded, because my GE routinely does both together. I don't think it's fair for either of you to make a blanket statement like that.

But what does this mean for the subject at hand? Your doc routinely does doubles. Many of our docs do as well, just not the colon rectal surgeons, they grab a GI doc to do the endoscopy part. How does that play into your assertion that there is no malpractice claim here? Or does it? Are we just getting caught up in details which have nothing to do with her case?

Sans the medical record, we have no way to assert that malpractice did or did not occur.

 

[nrdsb4]

BBM. This is why I responded, because my GE routinely does both together. I don't think it's fair for either of you to make a blanket statement like that.

BTW, the statements you bolded contain no "blanket statements" and specifically state that these are personal experiences at our facilities only.

 

[nrdsb4]

http://wqad.com/2014/09/10/clinic-v...-joan-rivers-doctors-were-qualified-equipped/

This facility sounds very much like the facility where I work, except for the fact that at my facility, we do in fact use general anesthesia most of the time (propofol) for both colonoscopy and upper endoscopy.

Every ambulatory surgery center would be equipped to handle a code as this is something they are required to prove to the regulatory body which monitors these centers, so I have no doubt that the statement above is true in that regard.

Without the actual medical record to show what caused the emergency, how it was handled, and why it nevertheless resulted in Joan Rivers death, there is no way to know if negligence occurred. If Melissa wants to know exactly what happened at that clinic before, during, and after the procedure, she will likely need to sue in order to get testimony from those present in addition to the written and computer generated information. I will be surprised if she does not do so, though she may not prove malpractice. If I were involved with this center and this case, I would welcome the ability to make the record public. As it stands, the center can make very few statements, and none which address Ms. Rivers' case specifically. This would be very frustrating for anyone involved and I can certainly sympathize with them for that.

 

[DeDee]

The endoscopy your daughter had was via the esophagus. Joan Rivers was via her trachea.

"The esophagus is a muscular tube connecting the throat (pharynx) with the stomach. The esophagus is about 8 inches long, and is lined by moist pink tissue called mucosa. The esophagus runs behind the windpipe (trachea) and heart, and in front of the spine. Just before entering the stomach, the esophagus passes through the diaphragm."

http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/picture-of-the-esophagus

 

[LinasK]

But what does this mean for the subject at hand? Your doc routinely does doubles. Many of our docs do as well, just not the colon rectal surgeons, they grab a GI doc to do the endoscopy part. How does that play into your assertion that there is no malpractice claim here? Or does it? Are we just getting caught up in details which have nothing to do with her case?

Sans the medical record, we have no way to assert that malpractice did or did not occur.

BBM. That fact doesn't. What I think is that Melissa thinks she has a malpractice claim because someone erroneously reported that Joan had a biopsy of her vocal cords taken under local anesthesia.

 

[nrdsb4]

BBM. That fact doesn't. What I think is that Melissa thinks she has a malpractice claim because someone erroneously reported that Joan had a biopsy of her vocal cords taken under local anesthesia.

Okay, so none of that had anything to do with anything related to Joan. Got it.

I think Melissa probably thinks there was malpractice because her healthy mother went for a relatively routine procedure and ended up dead. I think her lawyer will file suit in order to find out what happened, and if he is like many lawyers, he will try very hard to find something, whether or not it was the vocal cord biopsy issue, or something else, to suggest that negligence occurred. If it is found that the staff and center absolutely did nothing wrong, their camp will probably be unlikely to acknowledge it because people often need a bad guy to blame when something tragic and sudden happens.

Medical professionals are very aware that every bad outcome does not indicate malpractice. Unfortunately, many who don't understand or have education about anatomy/physiology/pathology are very very quick to point the finger and ASSUME that bad outcome = someone to blame.When it's somebody famous, the voices are loud and numerous. I saw an interview with Joan's friend Deborah Norville, who wasn't there and probably knows very little about medicine-she basically proclaimed that the procedure had been botched, as though there was no possibility that an 81 year old woman could have suffered a fatal arrhythmia during a medical procedure. I understand that people want answers, of course they do, but you would think someone who has experienced the harsh light of fame would understand the need not to spew vitriol sans verifiable documentation.

I still feel bad for the staff at CHO who, due to HIPAA, must remain completely silent, while Jahi McMath's family and associates are free to basically accuse them of negligence (at best) and even willful homicide at worst. It would be so hard to know that you had done your job, done it well, and have to read in the paper every day these harsh accusations with absolutely no ability to defend yourself.

If the center or staff did a procedure that most reasonable professionals would not have done in an outpatient clinic, if it's shown they did not handle the emergency according to established medical protocol, or if they allowed an individual to perform a procedure without first vetting their credentials, they are going to be skewered. If they are found to be completely innocent of any wrong doing, I doubt we will hear much about it because an elderly woman dying of an unforeseeable or untreatable malady just isn't that interesting to the public.

 

[LinasK]

Okay, so none of that had anything to do with anything related to Joan. Got it.

I think Melissa probably thinks there was malpractice because her healthy mother went for a relatively routine procedure and ended up dead. I think her lawyer will file suit in order to find out what happened, and if he is like many lawyers, he will try very hard to find something, whether or not it was the vocal cord biopsy issue, or something else, to suggest that negligence occurred. If it is found that the staff and center absolutely did nothing wrong, their camp will probably be unlikely to acknowledge it because people often need a bad guy to blame when something tragic and sudden happens.

Medical professionals are very aware that every bad outcome does not indicate malpractice. Unfortunately, many who don't understand or have education about anatomy/physiology/pathology are very very quick to point the finger and ASSUME that bad outcome = someone to blame.When it's somebody famous, the voices are loud and numerous. I saw an interview with Joan's friend Deborah Norville, who wasn't there and probably knows very little about medicine-she basically proclaimed that the procedure had been botched, as though there was no possibility that an 81 year old woman could have suffered a fatal arrhythmia during a medical procedure. I understand that people want answers, of course they do, but you would think someone who has experienced the harsh light of fame would understand the need not to spew vitriol sans verifiable documentation.

I still feel bad for the staff at CHO who, due to HIPAA, must remain completely silent, while Jahi McMath's family and associates are free to basically accuse them of negligence (at best) and even willful homicide at worst. It would be so hard to know that you had done your job, done it well, and have to read in the paper every day these harsh accusations with absolutely no ability to defend yourself.

If the center or staff did a procedure that most reasonable professionals would not have done in an outpatient clinic, if it's shown they did not handle the emergency according to established medical protocol, or if they allowed an individual to perform a procedure without first vetting their credentials, they are going to be skewered. If they are found to be completely innocent of any wrong doing, I doubt we will hear much about it because an elderly woman dying of an unforeseeable or untreatable malady just isn't that interesting to the public.

BBM. I agree with everything you said but this paragraph. I know Children's Hospital, have been there, and it does NOT have a stellar reputation, despite the fact that it is a hospital, and this was an outpatient clinic. I trust far more in the professionals that treated Joan Rivers, than I do in the ones that treated Jahi McMath post-op!

 

[SStarr33]

Medical director of Manhattan clinic where Joan Rivers went into cardiac arrest steps down

Dr Lawrence B. Cohen performed the procedure on the star before she stopped breathing and went into cardiac arrest on August 28
Dr Cohen 'allowed a specialist not authorized to practice at the clinic to examine Ms Rivers'
Ms Rivers was rushed to Mount Sinai Hospital and passed away on September 4 at the age of 81


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-went-cardiac-arrest-fired.html#ixzz3D7ktXWgn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[LinasK]

The report also has details about what went wrong during Rivers's procedure. Just as it was wrapping up, medical personnel realized that the Fashion Police host's oxygen level was crashing, a source said. It's unclear what led to that — whether it was a complication of the procedure or a result of the anesthetic she was given, which the person said was the powerful sedative Propofol.
The clinic called 911 and despite attempts to revive her at that facility, by paramedics transporting her to the hospital, and later at Mount Sinai Hospital, Rivers never regained consciousness. She died on Sept. 4 after being removed from life support.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/c...t-during-joan-rivers-procedure-135318760.html

Here's where they get medically inaccurate in their reporting: However, the specialist examined Rivers's voice box before and after the gastroenterologist performed the routine procedure, during which a tiny camera was used to look down the throat into her digestive system as Rivers had been complaining of hoarseness and a sore throat. BBM. Joan was having an endoscopy down her trachea (windpipe) not her esophagus/digestive system.

 

[Isabelle]

Medical director of Manhattan clinic where Joan Rivers went into cardiac arrest steps down

Dr Lawrence B. Cohen performed the procedure on the star before she stopped breathing and went into cardiac arrest on August 28
Dr Cohen 'allowed a specialist not authorized to practice at the clinic to examine Ms Rivers'
Ms Rivers was rushed to Mount Sinai Hospital and passed away on September 4 at the age of 81


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-went-cardiac-arrest-fired.html#ixzz3D7ktXWgn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Oh my! The good old boy network! I suspect Dr. Cohen was given a choice.

 

[Isabelle]

The report also has details about what went wrong during Rivers's procedure. Just as it was wrapping up, medical personnel realized that the Fashion Police host's oxygen level was crashing, a source said. It's unclear what led to that — whether it was a complication of the procedure or a result of the anesthetic she was given, which the person said was the powerful sedative Propofol.
The clinic called 911 and despite attempts to revive her at that facility, by paramedics transporting her to the hospital, and later at Mount Sinai Hospital, Rivers never regained consciousness. She died on Sept. 4 after being removed from life support.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/c...t-during-joan-rivers-procedure-135318760.html

Here's where they get medically inaccurate in their reporting: However, the specialist examined Rivers's voice box before and after the gastroenterologist performed the routine procedure, during which a tiny camera was used to look down the throat into her digestive system as Rivers had been complaining of hoarseness and a sore throat. BBM. Joan was having an endoscopy down her trachea (windpipe) not her esophagus/digestive system.

Interesting that the article states the unauthorized physician got a look see before and after Dr. Cohen completed his procedure. Why would this observer have a need to look before and after?

Further, who was supposed to be paying attention to Joan Rivers. By the time pulse oximetry starts to drop a fair amount of time has passed that the patient is not receiving oxygen. If Joan Rivers did have laryngospasm preventing passage of oxygen into the lungs, this would have been grossly obvious to the untrained eye. Malpractice, negligence seems to apply fully in this case. Were these tow physicians so busy preening in front of each other that no one paid attention. So sad.

 

[LinasK]

Interesting that the article states the unauthorized physician got a look see before and after Dr. Cohen completed his procedure. Why would this observer have a need to look before and after?

Further, who was supposed to be paying attention to Joan Rivers. By the time pulse oximetry starts to drop a fair amount of time has passed that the patient is not receiving oxygen. If Joan Rivers did have laryngospasm preventing passage of oxygen into the lungs, this would have been grossly obvious to the untrained eye. Malpractice, negligence seems to apply fully in this case. Were these tow physicians so busy preening in front of each other that no one paid attention. So sad.

This scenario seems much more likely than performing a biopsy under local anesthesia.

 

[LinasK]

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/ce...135318760.html This article also stated that Joan went to the clinic rather than a hospital to avoid the publicity, in answer to previous poster's questions.

 

[popsicle]

KOMO News ‏@komonews 8m
Report: Joan Rivers' doctor fired from clinic - http://www.komonews.com/news/entertainment/Report-Joan-Rivers-doctor-fired-from-clinic-274933941.html …

 

[Isabelle]

Clearly someone blew the whistle on these doctors. Kudos to whoever that was!

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Doctor who oversaw Joan Rivers' fatal operation was sued for malpractice in 2004 for operating without informed consent

"The doctor in charge of the endoscopy that led to Joan Rivers' death once operated on an elderly patient without his informed consent."

"The 93-year-old patient lost his 2004 medical malpractice suit against Dr. Lawrence Cohen, his attorneys admitted."

"However, his attorneys also claim there were similarities between that procedure and Rivers' operation."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-without-informed-consent.html#ixzz3DF2bB4z8