Jodi Arias Trial: the weekend discussion

[Madeleine74]

If Arias is convicted of first degree murder she'll likely get LWOP which means there won't be any parole hearings that any family member will ever have to attend. She'll just go away forever.

 

[Curious Me]

If Arias is convicted of first degree murder she'll likely get LWOP which means there won't be any parole hearings that any family member will ever have to attend. She'll just go away forever.

Is that a promise?

 

[Madeleine74]

I said "if" and "likely." Nothing is guaranteed.

 

[norest4thewicked]

If Arias is convicted of first degree murder she'll likely get LWOP which means there won't be any parole hearings that any family member will ever have to attend. She'll just go away forever.

Unfortunately, that is never set in stone. Look at California.

 

[Curious Me]

I said "if" and "likely." Nothing is guaranteed.

Is that a promise - said as a joke.

 

[TigerBalm]

Maybe he liked to hang onto the pony tails like bicycle handle bars during sex? Maybe he enjoyed a school fantasy ? So what?im missing the point. Maybe it was her fantasy not his at all?

We don't know .

JA wearing ponytails would only work as a seduction tool if TA was, in fact, turned on by seeing such a thing. And JA knew that which implies he told her it was something he liked/turned him on. Otherwise, it's a very random and strange time to decide to wear pigtails, not knowing if it would get a positive reaction.

It might be something that was a part of their sexual repertoire. Maybe TA did like envisioning JA as a younger female and maybe it did turn him on to see that.

I really wish people would *read* the words written. I never said role play or dress up was strange. I specifically said it would be a strange time to try it out on TA if she didn't already know he liked it. Considering she was supposedly gearing up to murder him and all and was allegedly making sure he was very turned on.

Since when does an adult female wearing pigtails turn into "the guy is into younger females"? Must have missed that memo! I guess NCIS should stop having Abby wear her hair like this, because any guy that thinks she looks cute is into younger females.
I just asked two of my male friends (in their 20's) what they thought of her hair, they both said its cute. I'm sure just about every guy their age (and not) would say the same thing. It doesn't mean any of them are into younger females!

 

[Linda7NJ]

If Arias is convicted of first degree murder she'll likely get LWOP which means there won't be any parole hearings that any family member will ever have to attend. She'll just go away forever.

If that's what he loved ones would prefer, that would work for me.

 

[ErnestBorgnine]

Has anybody seen the pigtails picture of Jody?
Were the pigtails up high like a child would wear
Or
Down low native Indian style?

That question is so specific that it made me laugh. Would they signify very different things?

 

[gngr~snap]

Yes I've heard about that. But (and I have no idea at this point) was she the trainer of his sexual fantasies? I mean for a virgin, he sure seemed to be open to exploring things some people never explore!
Imo

I have an idea of something that has gained popularity recently...
Heck even Dr Ruth recommended married couples trying it to "spice" up their love life... uke:
Personally it's a NO for me!

Well according to Travis he was a "dildo with a heartbeat" to her, so I don't think it was one-sided.

I have asked several men if they would ever say that to any woman they were bedding... a resounding "NO" was the answer.

The next statement was, they might call an "easy" girl a "life support system for a vagina" ~ but guess in this case that would not apply huh?

I'm still very curious about the crime scene photograph of the duct tape. I really hope that someone explains this.

Could she have had the gun taped to her when she went after him with the knife?
* say after she dressed and pretended she was leaving
-oviously she didn't have a gun taped to her the whole time!
The tape does not look longer than 6 inches....

What purpose would be the purpose of a short piece of duct tape
How would it aid in the commission of a murder?
all moo

 

[gitana1]

Reading here I have come to the conclusion that all the defense needs is one woman on that jury who was insecure in her life, dumped by a man and was somehow never able to get over it or to stop blaming the male gender for that heartbreak.

Then they just need to paint the picture that this was merely a "dysfunctional" relationship between a fragile woman and a creepy user, that morphed into what was basically just a long term "fight", culminating in an "unpleasant" crime, and this woman might just walk.

 

[claudicici]

I hope not Gitana,I think if the opinions on this forum would give clues to how the jurors might feel ,it is clear that even the ones that DO believe Jodi was used and had a right to be angry at Travis (such as myself) want her to be prosecuted and want justice for Travis.I don't care how much you hate men I don't think there could be anyone on the planet that could believe what Jodi did was justified.Like someone on these threads said awhile back .....slash his tires,not his throat....

 

[Keebler]

I'm sorry I didn't answer this sooner. I honestly was hoping someone else would, lol !

When she was moving, she had the BMW towed behind her U-Haul, she left it in gear and blew up the engine. He was great about it, not even mad according to Jodi. She had to pay him $100 dollars a month for it until it was paid off and he held the title till it was. This is true because lawyers and insurance company was involved.

She also asked the detective about the check from her written to Travis for the BMW and asked when it was going to be cashed! This is not long after he was slaughtered and she's toying with detective on the phone!

During the recorded interview between Jodi and Det. Flores, she also said that she left her condolences on Travis' sister's MySpace page (anyone notice the courtroom camera pan to her and see her shake her head 'no' when this was played) and asked her about the car and contacted the executor for Travis' estate and left him a message about the BMW...after all she did, she still wants to get his car. Wow, just wow.

 

[gngr~snap]

He was visiting a romantic interest. She followed him there....and slashed his tires. Not once, but twice!

Thinking out loud... She "allegedly" slashed his tires WHILE he was visiting a love interest.

Why slash the tires?
To threaten him or the girl? As in lady you are next?
OR don't get involved with him I'm the psycho x?
He cheats on you with me?

IMO end result he gets to spend MORE time with new girl!
He can't exactly leave. and JA looks like a fool.
(man if I did that I'd for sure be arrested! I'd flub up big time.)
I'd think to go and
Slash his tires BEFORE he is supposed to see the other girl!
(unless you know you will get caught)

Wasn't she driving a car he sold her?
How did she know he wouldn't call the cops and refund her $
and take the car back?


Guess it's a good thing I was always too scared to exact revenge on anyone. :blushing:
Well at least until I reached my 40's! lol

OH ~snap! I am no door mat these days!!! :dervish:
I blame it on the HOT FLASHES!!!:steamed:

I hope not Gitana,I think if the opinions on this forum would give clues to how the jurors might feel ,it is clear that even the ones that DO believe Jodi was used and had a right to be angry at Travis (such as myself) want her to be prosecuted and want justice for Travis.I don't care how much you hate men I don't think there could be anyone on the planet that could believe what Jodi did was justified.Like someone on these threads said awhile back .....slash his tires,not his throat....

I kinda side with you. I am not against you in any way.

"Dirty Little Secret" by Linkin Park plays in my head!
~it probably was not even released until after his death.

My ISSUES are (how I personally am understanding it)
JA was just out of a 4 YEAR relationship with a ?divorced man with a child
JA knew Mormon rules/laws/recommendations (sorry not sure what term
to use) I mean no offense.
JA knew they were "friends with benefits" ~ does that ever work?
JA was not a naive "young" girl. ~20
JA was never invited to become a resident at TA's address
JA broke several Laws "allegedly" (if anything we have heard is true)

TA knew Mormon rules and followed them to his satisfaction
TA planned on marrying a Mormon by birth
TA allowed JA to overstay her welcome
TA underestimated her odd visits and did nothing to prevent her
them
TA sold her a car thereby entered a legal contract with
her that "kept her in the picture" for a future
TA was either very "clueless" or afraid to stand up to her
and say enough is enough!

TA was a motivational speaker.
maybe it was him really trying to help her
but YA CAN'T MIX business and pleasure...

I can not understand why he tolerated her!
I just keep thinking she had something on him.
OR she claimed she did and he believed her

Something that kept him from alerting LE and he still allowed her to
come around and played nice with her.

IMO the JA/TA pics seem forced.
maybe I am seeing things.
The body language is not one of
a new couple...
But maybe he can't be too mushy
due to his job and/or faith.

Even the Army gets funny about PDA...

 

[Keebler]

I would ordinarily agree with this. But, with a person like Jodi, life in prison would still allow her to live her life in her narcissistic dream. Although it would be on a much smaller level, she could still continue to blablabla and act like a rock star. I think the death penalty was made for people like her.

A normal person would be horrified by the thought of LWOP, but Jodi isn't a normal person and doesn't seem particularly bothered by having spent the last 4 years in jail. She's not showing any physical signs of being stressed...no weight gain, no worry lines or premature aging. When one of her old friends went to visit her in jail, he said (interview on JVM or NG) he was shocked by how unaffected she seemed..just asking what mutual friends were up to, etc. as if she wasn't talking to him from prison.
I don't think LWOP for Jodi would be the hell that it would be to the rest of us.

 

[BritsKate]

:what: Yeesh! I think I need to start pulling all nighters just to keep up with the lot of you!

So the DT will be calling a domestic violence expert that will be talking about how subtle abuse can be and that it doesn't have to be physical in nature. Why Jodi would have kept going back to an abusive relationship and doing whatever Travis wanted sexually to keep him happy.

I hope the Prosecution has one of these experts lined up as well to explain how their relationship does not fit a domestic violence relationship unless you look at Jodi stalking Travis and showing up at his house etc. I am afraid this is an uphill battle for the Pros. and hope the jury is not caught up in an expert's theoretical statements.

BBM
You voiced my biggest fear in this case. Somehow the jury will see Jodi as a 'wronged woman' instead of psychologically abusive.

Imagine this..........you are home alone and go to sleep. You know that there is no one else in your house with you (gf/bf that you have/had a relationship with). While you are sound asleep someone sneaks into your house, gets undressed and slips into bed with you. While you are still sound asleep that someone proceeds to get you "excited". They then straddle you and begin having sex with you. You begin to wake up but think that it is a dream. You then realize that it is not a dream and that you are in fact having sex with someone that was not there when you went to sleep. Do you make the person stop and get ticked off or do you "go with the flow"? Do you consider this to be abuse? Do you feel violated?

Do we know if Jodi has ever done this to Travis? Would Jodi even admit to it if she had? Do we think that it is possible that Jodi has done this?

There are so many unknowns when it comes to whatever kind of relationship Jodi and Travis had and we only have the word of a liar as to what actually happened. Travis was killed by Jodi so he can no longer speak for himself or defend himself. Jodi has every reason to try and paint Travis in the worst possible light, it helps her case and may prevent her from being put to death. I, personally, refuse to look at Travis as an abuser of any sort without some sort of solid proof and Jodi's word is in no way shape or form proof.

MOO

BBM
I think it's subjective and therein lies the problem. There are still many, many people who do not consider psychological abuse to actually be abusive. It is often minimized, justified or rationalized - many times by those closest to the victim who just don't know better. Sadly, psychological (or emotional) abuse often escalates into physical, and sometimes lethal, violence.

This is why I think his journals are missing. jmo I also think the above scenario is possible and probable and that afterwards TA did feel violated and abused. jmo

I think they have the journals in evidence. Defense wanted their handwriting expert to examine them according to Maricopa minutes. http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/092010/m4391050.pdf

How do you know he wasn't scared to death of her? How do you know he wasn't the one being stalked and used sexually? Too scared & embarrassed to call the police and make a report.

IMO if the roles were reversed we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just have to say while I feared my ex (he threatened to kill me several times) I honestly never thought he would really hurt me. Until I left. Sometimes I think people can be afraid and still not realize the extent others will go to hurt us. Now I am absolutely petrified of him and fully believe he would murder me in a heartbeat if ever given the opportunity. (One of the reasons I'm living abroad. )

N

Really, that is news to me. I thought she wanted to marry him, get a better house to live in, blah blah blah.

If I was not in love with somebody, I certainly would not leave my hometown, move thousands of miles away, change my religion, go on some many trips, take so many pictures, if my only motive was to kill you.

That really makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't believe her only motive was to kill him until at least the middle of May 2008. I think she wanted his life and all it could offer her. I think she wanted charismatic, charming, gregarious, wealthy, and successful Travis. For me there's an awfully big difference love and obsession. Disordered people (and abusers) very often 'morph' into what their victims greatest desires are to lure their prey. (The 'Prince Charming' personality of many abusive people.)

Look, I hate her. I wouldn't call her a . As far as we know she wasn't banging the state of AZ, she wasn't having sex with anyone's husband.

What two consenting single adults do sexually is fine by me.

Please don't ever make me defend her again...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't believe she was a or either but I do believe she used sex as manipulative tool.

When the Defense Attorney says Jodi did it and there is no question about that, where did that come from? I know Jodi had to admit she was at Travis' home because of camera pics, handprint in blood and her blood being present. I am just not getting this part that she confessed, but not to police. Is there somewhere I can read about this? Thanks

First story (told to LE): She was not in Mesa that day and had not seen Travis since she moved in April.
Second story (told to 48 Hours or Inside Edition, I think): There were two intruders, dressed all in black, wearing ski masks. She heard a loud pop and turned to see Travis crawling. (Who also stated he couldn't feel his legs somewhere in there? :waitasec They tried to fire the gun at her but it didn't go off and she escaped - with purse and keys. (This version can also be located at People You'll See in Hell)
Third Story (told to her attorneys, relayed to internet by sister, post DNA, handprint, and hair analysis): Okay she was there but she dropped the camera and Travis was enraged and lunged at her. Enter self-defense story.

Travis didn't:

Travis did:
As a man in a relationship with Jodi, and it was dysfunctional to say the least, he was not innocent. Neither person was innocent in that relationship.
The demonization of the seductress female archetype continues unabated. Evil wench seducing and forcing poor defenseless man-boy to have multiple sexual trysts which was unwanted, in this fable. Sorry, but that stereotype doesn't do a thing to help understand this tragic case.

Respectfully snipped to include relevant points to my rebuttal.

Much of what Travis either did or did not do could be attributed to many who are subjected to abuse. Myself included. It isn't a question of innocence or sainthood but rather if someone was manipulated, coerced, gaslighted, blackmailed, stalked, etc.
(That isn't to say I didn't make poor choices myself or that I was an angel. But many of my decisions made and the very fact I stayed were part and parcel of the psychology behind being abused. Those factors shouldn't negate that I was.) IYKWIM

Pretty sure I argued the same points in the Young case. I know you followed that too. (Lots of folks didn't believe Michelle was abused because he didn't hit her; she didn't leave; she never told her friends; etc. For those who didn't follow that case Jason Young was convicted of beating his wife to death.)

What a strange question. What battered person was I assigning blame to? Travis wasn't a battered male. He was a man who was brutally murdered. I have no evidence of Jodi being a battered woman or being trapped in a relationship either.

Since you asked, I've volunteered for and raised money for and donated money to domestic violence organizations in my area, so blaming a battered woman (or man) is not my style.

He was a man who was brutally murdered who was also subjected to psychological abuse perpetrated by a predator in my opinion. No battery is necessary to abuse another.

Reading here I have come to the conclusion that all the defense needs is one woman on that jury who was insecure in her life, dumped by a man and was somehow never able to get over it or to stop blaming the male gender for that heartbreak.

Then they just need to paint the picture that this was merely a "dysfunctional" relationship between a fragile woman and a creepy user, that morphed into what was basically just a long term "fight", culminating in an "unpleasant" crime, and this woman might just walk.

:banghead:
I can hear the jury already...
"He didn't deserve to die BUT he should have/shouldn't have..."

 

[BrownRice]

(snipped) Travis did hide the reality of his sexual activities and his friends did not know he was engaging in these activities. That too is a fact.

I'm glad you mentioned this as I keep forgetting to ask about it....

Did TA's friends really think he was a virgin? How did he explain JA staying overnight at his house in his bedroom? They travelled together (presumably staying at a hotel together). He had a friend on one of the news shows who said JA and TA stayed at his house for a week.

His friends must have known. Come on! Has this been discussed?

 

[zoey]

The car check is gnawing at me,
I can't believe she called and asked the detective if he knew when it would be deposited.

Iirc she even approached one of his sisters about it as well don't have a link but. I think it was thrum facebook :what:

 

[DenverClipper]

I'm glad you mentioned this as I keep forgetting to ask about it....

Did TA's friends really think he was a virgin? How did he explain JA staying overnight at his house in his bedroom? They travelled together (presumably staying at a hotel together). He had a friend on one of the news shows who said JA and TA stayed at his house for a week.

His friends must have known. Come on! Has this been discussed?

Good point. This has not been discussed thoroughly here. It probably will be and I also suspect we might begin hearing more about this in trial next week.

 

[BritsKate]

I'm glad you mentioned this as I keep forgetting to ask about it....

Did TA's friends really think he was a virgin? How did he explain JA staying overnight at his house in his bedroom? They travelled together (presumably staying at a hotel together). He had a friend on one of the news shows who said JA and TA stayed at his house for a week.

His friends must have known. Come on! Has this been discussed?

Taylor Searle, friend of Travis:
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You knew Travis Alexander well. Was he the kind of guy who led a double life? Essentially, that`s what they`re accusing him of. And I want to give you an opportunity, as a friend of his, to set the record straight, given that he cannot speak for himself anymore.

SEARLE: I think calling it a double life is a little simplistic. I would say that he had ideals he wanted to live up to, and he had standards that he truly believed in. And he was a natural man with natural tendencies.

And the fact that he had these relationships with women doesn`t mean that he was lying when he said what his ideals were. He had no reason behind closed doors and in the confidence of his friends to lie about what he believed in. I mean, there`s no reason that I would call it a double life, because he has ideals and because he struggles in trying to uphold them.

Aaron Mortenson, friend of Travis:
MORTENSON: I think Travis and I were in similar circumstances at the time that he and I were friends during that time when -- in Arizona. We -- we were -- we spoke a lot about trying to improve in different facets of our lives. And I think I don`t get the impression that Travis ever told me that he was a perfect person, but he had big goals and he wanted to achieve things. And he wanted to improve in lots of areas of his life. And I had the impression that he was in the process of doing that.

Shanna Hogan, journalist:
Yes. I mean, he was a Mormon, and this was shocking in the LDS community. But they were also adults in their late 20s, and that`s what adults in their late 20s in a relationship do. They have sex. So you know, talking to some of his friends, and they`re all saying the same thing: they didn`t judge him for this. They saw him as a person who was trying to live by his best standards and just, you know, slipped from that. And when a woman was in his bed, you know, jumping in naked, he gave into that, like a lot of men would do.

Danny Jones, Travis' friend:
JONES: Well, see, I think that`s the big problem here, especially, you know, in the media. Like, this isn`t a trial about, you know, how good of a Mormon he was or how well he lived up to his religion or what his sexual fantasies were.

You know, I think one thing we have to all remember here is this is a human being and he`s not perfect. I`m not perfect. You`re not perfect. Nobody is, I don`t care what religion you are. And you know, it looks like that during that season of his life, you know, temptation got the better of him on some of the other things.

But you know, I think we all need to remember the main thing of this whole trial is these three things, is did she murder him? Well, obviously. Was it premeditated? Yes. And was there self-defense -- was it because of self-defense?

 

[zoey]

If Arias is convicted of first degree murder she'll likely get LWOP which means there won't be any parole hearings that any family member will ever have to attend. She'll just go away forever.

I also have heard that LWOP easier on victims families since they don't have the appeal process