Jodi Arias Trial: the weekend discussion

[kkdj]

snipped:

The prosecution better have a "domestic violence expert" that has worked with men who have been the victims. Men are even less likely to tell their friends and family what is going on. They are less likely to file reports with the police (in this case there was nothing that the police could have gotten involved with prior to the murder). Travis could have reported the tire slashing but without anybody placing Jodi at the scene it is only suspicion. It sure would have been nice to have that on a police report though

I'm still wondering if she threatened him with blackmail. He had a lot to have to answer to if others knew about his dirty little secret. Might have made him continue the relationship with her.
IMO

 

[BrownRice]

Just thinking more about Travis's house and the real estate market and the motive for the crime, it strikes me that there is no way Travis could have bought that house on 100% financing, then re-fi'd for another almost $100k two years later in a normal market. Especially if he was working on commissions and/or was self-employed. I wonder if he decorated the house so nicely and bought a lot of other stuff with the money he took out in the re-fi. I know SO many people who did that b/c they thought the bubble would never burst, and found themselves underwater in the six-figures and foreclosed. Apparently, Jodi thought he was a great catch based, at least in part, on the trappings of success. Which really were probably more the product of an artificially inflated real estate market than on Travis earning the really big bucks. Not saying he wasn't successful. Just saying I think he fell into the same trap a lot of folks did wrt to livin' large at that time in the economy. Especially in AZ. Plus, I didn't realize how far out there that home is. The builders went crazy all over the valley during the boom, and houses even way out that way were selling for way more than they were or are worth b/c most peeps couldn't touch a new home closer in.

Did he refinance or are you just thinking out loud? I have no idea about his financial situation. I do recall in one of the videos posted last night where he was brought in to talk to a group of new PPL reps that he was introduced as being a gold member or something like that. So I assume he was bringing in at least 6 figures - maybe like $10k a month? And since he had roommates in his home he seemed to be somewhat level headed with money (and driving a Prius).

I lived in the Phoenix area from 2004-06 and remember the boom. There were people who were buying out in Queens Creek (I think that is where it was - past Mesa) and they would have a 1.5 hour commute into Phoenix just to be able to buy a house that was affordable. And then crash. The boom came and went pretty quickly.

 

[knt]

That does not bring any validity to it, people join here everyday, it was poorly done imo, there should be direct links to fact check entries, has it even been fact checked by mods or just allowed. Granted I know there are a lot of views but I have never seen tomato interpreted so many ways.

I think the WS member did a great job on the timeline. I appreciate the hard work and have referenced it myself. Maybe you should do one yourself that better suits your tastes...

 

[BritsKate]

~sbm

Did the lawyers themselves ever move to get those letters admitted before or after they were tested and determined, at least by the prosecution, to be forgeries? I think it's highly likely that her lawyers refused to try to get the letters admitted and Jodi represented herself on that motion with the specific intent of getting her lawyers back if it was denied. Or maybe even if it wasn't. A pro se litigant has a MUCH better chance of obtainining ridiculously favorable rulings and stands almost no chance of being denied counsel even if they fire them once (or even more than once) in a dp case. I'm sure her lawyers told her that. Plus, that way the lawyers didn't have to put their own licenses on the line trying to admit documents they knew or believed to be false. Also, jodi thinking that anything is to much for her to handle seems highly unlikely, but I'm pretty sure she'd say it if it served her purpose. jmo

Unfortunately the minutes are just bare bones so it's really hard to piece together but here's my effort:
2010
June 1 the defendant discloses copies of the letters to the state.
June 3rd defense files motion allowing expert examination of evidence - no clue what that evidence is.
June 10th State files motion to preclude letters purportedly written by Travis.
Motion can be viewed here, page 11: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=109828551
June 18th state makes oral argument seeking original letters be disclosed for their own examiner.
September 14th State is ordered to turn Travis' journals over to the defense's handwriting expert.
October 26th Letters are discussed and have been examined by defense expert. Defense seeks motion requesting additional discovery 'relating to the assertion that the letters submitted to the court are forged'.
November 18th Defense withdraws above motion based on discussions held.

skipping ahead for my sanity
2011
August 8th Jodi moves to represent herself.
August 15th Judge Stephens reinstates Jodi's attorneys. At this hearing the defense handwriting expert also testifies and the defense withdraws their objection to the State's motion to preclude the letters.

I obviously have way too much time on my hands. :floorlaugh:

 

[Karmady]

I'm still wondering if she threatened him with blackmail. He had a lot to have to answer to if others knew about his dirty little secret. Might have made him continue the relationship with her.
IMO

Under the circumstances, I think there's a pretty good chance she did that. He was getting ready to go on a trip with an lds woman who was potential marriage material. That woman and others may have known that Travis was messing around with Jodi, but they probably didn't know any or many of the details of it. What better way to shove the other woman's face in it and ruin the trip completely, maybe even make her stay home, than a few time-stamped pics of her and Travis having crazy monkey sex just before they were supposed to leave.

Otoh, does "he went off on me because I dropped his camera" really sound that much better than "I threatened to blackmail him with sex pics" -- idk. If she did threaten him, wouldn't she use the blackmail as the supposed spark for his anger? I'm glad I can't completely figure her out lol

 

[BritsKate]

I think if Jodi were to admit to causing Travis' (non ) anger through anything other than accidental means she'd risk losing her victim status. How much sympathy would a jury feel if she admitted blackmailing him?

 

[Karmady]

Unfortunately the minutes are just bare bones so it's really hard to piece together but here's my effort:
2010
June 1 the defendant discloses copies of the letters to the state.
June 3rd defense files motion allowing expert examination of evidence - no clue what that evidence is.
June 10th State files motion to preclude letters purportedly written by Travis.
Motion can be viewed here, page 11: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=109828551
June 18th state makes oral argument seeking original letters be disclosed for their own examiner.
September 14th State is ordered to turn Travis' journals over to the defense's handwriting expert.
October 26th Letters are discussed and have been examined by defense expert. Defense seeks motion requesting additional discovery 'relating to the assertion that the letters submitted to the court are forged'.
November 18th Defense withdraws above motion based on discussions held.

skipping ahead for my sanity
2011
August 8th Jodi moves to represent herself.
August 15th Judge Stephens reinstates Jodi's attorneys. At this hearing the defense handwriting expert also testifies and the defense withdraws their objection to the State's motion to preclude the letters.

I obviously have way too much time on my hands. :floorlaugh:

ha, ha...me, too. How pitiful is it that this is the way I "relax"? lol

anyway, thanks for the time line and that seals my opinion. Defense counsel disclosed that they intended to use the letters as evidence. Letters were examined by experts for both sides. Both concluded and would have testified that they are forgeries. Defense counsel says I'm not going to court with forged docs but tells Jodi she can try it if she wants knowing that she will always be able to "re-hire" them later. Jodi does that, then says she was in over her head, possibly creating at the same time the most tenuous argument on appeal that she was her own "ineffective counsel" for the purpose of getting key evidence before the court.
jmo

 

[KMouse]

BBM

Recording phone calls and all the other things she did shows that she was a planner. She wanted documented proof for everything, even if she had to make it up herself. Her being into photography was almost as though she had to document everything in her life in order to prove something, anything. I wonder if photoshop delighted her or pissed her off?

Recording phone calls is creepy. I wonder how many she did record and when that all started as far as their relationship went. I am thinking she recorded calls because she was in blackmail mode. Again...who does stuff like that?

 

[PrincessSezMe]

Snipped for space..........

TY.

I have read about criminal cases for over three decades and one of the glaring things I have noticed along the way is the vast difference in how society preceives males who are victims of abuse from females.... from females suffering the same fate from a male. Admittedly it has made me angry for many years and has been one of my pet peeves. Everyone who suffers any kind of abuse deserves the same consideration in our justice system ....the gender should be irrelevant.

I am naive I suppose to really believe in 'justice for ALL' but this is what I truly believe and want to see happen in our country. I have read many heartbreaking stories about men who were emotionally, physically, and sexually abused ..some of them even by their own mother. The inner scars, fear, humilation, shame, and inner pain they experience are no different than when women endures the same except it seems females have a stronger support group and will tell what happened to them more often. No wonder males are 10 times more likely to contemplate suicide and carry it out if they are victims of sexual abuse. They feel all alone and many times they are.

Our society as a whole sends such a wrong message about males who are sexually abused by females. The male is supposed to feel lucky by society's standards and when they dont feel that way they are ridiculed and then they believe something has to be wrong with them rather than their abuser. Accused over and over that they had to have wanted it or it wouldnt have happened.

I have even been shocked and sickened by seeing some say a man cant even be raped or seriously physically abused by a smaller female and these opinions werent said years ago......they have continued to be said even when all should know better by now, imo. With ignorance comes biases, imo. It also shows why men are the least likely ones to report abuse done by a female. Has society's views caused them to be reluctant to do so? Imo, yes. Most of the time they are not believed even if they do tell.

One thing my own experience with my ex did not do..it did not leave me with personal biases against (any nor all) males in general. After three years I actually forgave my ex and he is no longer the man he once was. If I had been so closed minded I would have missed the love of my life who I have been happily married to for almost 30 years. I wish things had turned out the same way for Travis and wish he had a chance to find the love of his dreams.

I have no doubt that Travis was psychologically and sexually abused by Jodi Arias. All the red flags are there. He was fearful of his murderess or he would have never told his friends that he felt she was going to kill him. He saw the eratic and violent behavior esculating just like I did in my situation. My fear was well founded because after 10 and a half months after I left my ex he tried to kill me and almost succeeded. Did I report him to the police before that happened no matter how much he abused me? No, I protected his secret for years due to the paralyzing fear I had of him. Once he hurt me so badly that it required intensive care treatment for three weeks it was out of my hands and in the hands of the justice system which was a turning point in my life.

Imo, Jodi Arias is gulty of murder one.

Wow, reading your post raised the hair on the back of my neck. How horrible it must be to go through the level of abuse you (and BritsKate) did. I was fortunate enough that my ex husband was never physically abusive to the point of putting me in the hospital. It was more mental and emotional torture with him, although he did pour a full beer in my face once and then throw the bottle at me, resulting in a bruised cheek and swollen nose. He was more of a property destroyer (throwing TVs and stereos etc.). His main goal was to destroy my self confidence, and make me feel like I was worthless.

When I walked away from the relationship he stalked me for more than a year begging forgiveness, and asking me to give him another chance. I held firm and never looked back, and am now married to a wonderful man for the last 23 years.

I've been around women that are verbally abusive to their mate, and often wonder if there is more that goes on behind closed doors then those men are willing to talk about. I often wonder why they stay in the relationship. Some are guys who weren't terribly popular growing up, so they kind of grab onto the first one that will give them what they've dreamed of all through their adolescence.

I agree that abuse can occur no matter what the gender, and the reasons for the victim to stay in that relationship are varied.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience, and for being an advocate for the victim.

 

[BritsKate]

New article up at radar. Taylor makes it sound like Travis himself was really struggling with what he wanted.

“Travis always presented the situation as trying to decide what kind of girl he should date,” revealed Taylor. “He would say, ‘Jodi is really hot and I’m super attracted to her, but should I go with that or pick a good Mormon girl who would be marriage material?’” said Taylor.

“I was always put off by her and thought he should find someone he could settle down with, so I was rooting against it for both reasons.”

There's lots more: http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...s-she-scares-me-says-her-victims-best-friend/

 

[kkdj]

I think if Jodi were to admit to causing Travis' (non ) anger through anything other than accidental means she'd risk losing her victim status. How much sympathy would a jury feel if she admitted blackmailing him?

Oh she would never admit to blackmail! Heck no! But it makes sense to me that she would try the blackmail route before the murder route. But Im trying to get some sorta crazy logic out of a crazy Jodi!
(not legally insane though)

 

[Karmady]

Did he refinance or are you just thinking out loud? I have no idea about his financial situation. I do recall in one of the videos posted last night where he was brought in to talk to a group of new PPL reps that he was introduced as being a gold member or something like that. So I assume he was bringing in at least 6 figures - maybe like $10k a month? And since he had roommates in his home he seemed to be somewhat level headed with money (and driving a Prius).

I lived in the Phoenix area from 2004-06 and remember the boom. There were people who were buying out in Queens Creek (I think that is where it was - past Mesa) and they would have a 1.5 hour commute into Phoenix just to be able to buy a house that was affordable. And then crash. The boom came and went pretty quickly.

No, I did actually look at the records at the county recorder web site. It's possible I'm reading them wrong, but I don't think so. Anyone can check. All you have to do is enter his name and look for the records that start with the initial date of sale from the zillow site.

I don't know how long he was associated with PPL or how long he was at the platinum level, either. So that may be relevant to his income in the 2004 time frame. Like I said, though, he appeared to have a lot of very nice things for such a young guy. You mentioned a Prius (which I wasn't aware of) but he also had a Beamer until Jodi wrecked the engine. And I think you're right, he was probably using rent to pay the mortgage almost completely. Anyway, just some information since we're all just sitting around waiting for the trial to start back up

 

[KMouse]

Re: autopsy photos

How does a person do something like that to another?

I can't think of any way to explain those wounds other than rage and overkill. We know he was down on the ground for some of them. How can the DT say that Jodi was forced to fight for her life and have that quasi-decapitation photo showing on the screen in court.

 

[BritsKate]

Here are some very, very graphic photos.

http://s1356.beta.photobucket.com/user/stringtheory1/library/ME

I hope you don't mind but after those...this...

 

[3trees]

I hope you don't mind but after those...this...

Much more preferable.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No, I did actually look at the records at the county recorder web site. It's possible I'm reading them wrong, but I don't think so. Anyone can check. All you have to do is enter his name and look for the records that start with the initial date of sale from the zillow site.

I don't know how long he was associated with PPL or how long he was at the platinum level, either. So that may be relevant to his income in the 2004 time frame. Like I said, though, he appeared to have a lot of very nice things for such a young guy. You mentioned a Prius (which I wasn't aware of) but he also had a Beamer until Jodi wrecked the engine. And I think you're right, he was probably using rent to pay the mortgage almost completely. Anyway, just some information since we're all just sitting around waiting for the trial to start back up

I think Travis was a very successful young man. He seemed to be highly motivated. One of his good friends even said that all of Travis' suits were tailored and handmade with his name on the inside pocket.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Much more preferable.

Now that is a sweet photo.

I read that one of his friends has his doggie.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I hope you don't mind but after those...this...

The prior photos just shows what can happen when someone dies a horrific death and isnt found for days.

This photo of Travis is the one I will remember. A happy and alive Travis with his little poochie.

I have enjoyed seeing all the photos of him and his friends. He had a nice warm smile.

IMO

 

[kkdj]

I hope you don't mind but after those...this...

Thank you for posting this pic of Travis alive and well! We need to see him like this.
How in the heck could anybody do to him what Jodi did?!?
How could a person just keep going at it? And then zero remorse!!!
It's horrifying!

 

[borndem]

IMO, this trial is going to be very similar to the Casey Anthony trial. Defense will attempt to confuse, confuse, confuse with inconsequential details and "fluff". Which is what the sex stuff is. (To me the pigtails, etc. are unimportant. Not really much different than the cute little red teddy I purchased at Christmas with the Santa Claus fur.:blushing And I don't believe all the anal sex stuff - just her word for it. And so what, anyway - clearly he wasn't raping her.

It is actually quite simple. JA (similar to Casey Anthony) seemed to have no real life skills. (She was 30 or so, right?) She doesn't appear stupid but spends her time and energy on developing stalking skills. Smart like Casey Anthony in a weird twisted way. Only had the life skills to manipulate others.

She was a high school dropout. Her house was foreclosed on. She needed someone quickly. She found him in Travis. She was immediately "in love". (Sound familiar?) We've all known women like that. One date - in love. The guy can't escape and is quickly ensnared and isn't even sure how it happened. I don't think Travis was a bad guy. I think he wanted out and couldn't get out. And had no idea of her level of crazy. So many red flags! (Didn't this all happen rather quickly? Over 4 months or so?)

Luckily the evidence appears more solid than the Casey Anthony case. I hope the jury is a little more sensible and just looks at the evidence pertaining to the murder and remembers all that other "fluff" is irrelevant.

bbm

Yep, Fortune, it reminds me of when CA's "boyfriend/sex buddy" told her to stop bringing Caylee to stay overnight with them -- he said his roommates were uncomfortable with her there. That's when Caylee's bed in the trunk & the Benadryl & the duct tape began, along with the end of little Caylee. CA just had to have him, no matter the cost... Of course, JA carried it a little farther, and became the scorned woman and things got very bad in a hurry.