jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

[~n/t~]

What's wrong with those pictures? :jail:

Actually, this one would be even more appropriate, imo.

 

[matou]

Is there any evidence to support that rehabilitation can be successful in the case of pedophiles?

 

[antiquegirl]

An eye for an eye sounds good to me at this point in time. 2 evil people took part in raping and murdering an innocent sweet 8 year old child.

I have a hard time with the term "rehabilitation" with these 2 monsters. I do not want them rehabilitated and possibly thrown back out to society in the years to come, to be my neighbour. I feel they do not deserve to freely walk the streets ever again. Who wants them? Who wants them near their child, grandchild? These are just my feelings and my opinion only!

I agree with your second paragraph. I didn't mean to imply in any way that all those found guilty of Tori's sad fate could ever be rehabilitated. I mentioned the word in the context of how people (in general) have different opinions on what imprisonment should accomplish.

Personally, I believe that some non-violent offenders are capable of rehabilitation. I do have dire concerns about violent ones. I would never trust anyone with that kind of history near my children or grandchild!

JMO

 

[flipflop]

Is there any evidence to support that rehabilitation can be successful in the case of pedophiles?

Good question! All we ever hear about are repeat offenders!!!!

 

[antiquegirl]

Is there any evidence to support that rehabilitation can be successful in the case of pedophiles?

No. I believe the current medical consensus is that they are mostly incapable of rehabilitation.

JMO

 

[maxfactor]

IMO life is all about choices and consequences, you make a choice and you live with the consequences. I think everyone would be surprised to know what life inside prisons is like.Most have more rights than any of the rest of us, most have it fairly good. PB and RW are where they are to protect THEM. I guess they should have thought about this before they did what they did. I feel the same about TLM and MR. They made the choice, they live with the consequence. Tori didn't get that option.

And as for how would I feel if one of my children had to live in a tiny cell? I love my children more than life itself. They have been raised from day one to know life is all choices and consequences. If one of my children does that to a child they are on their own. :moo:

 

[antiquegirl]

No, we're much more civilized now and opt for another Biblical concept instead, "turn the other cheek".

So how are we to make people accountable for their crimes? Or shouldn't we?

I'm afraid that I'm being taken out of context again. Turning the other cheek is not an option IMHO for almost any crime. But since we long ago abolished exiling criminals to deserted islands, prison is our preferred and only alternative. I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I'm all for it. But my own opinion about its purpose is all about keeping society safe and hopefully (although not proven) as a deterrent to other would-be criminals. Rehabilitation is subjective and depends greatly on the offense and the offender. I do not believe it works for most violent criminals. It's the "vengeance" concept I have a problem with.

JMO

 

[swedie]

The injuries that Tori sustained prior to the hammer blows, would have been fatal.

Thank you for that article WG. As sickening as MR sexually assaulting Tori, what else did he do to Tori that TLM was not witness to, while he had Tori in the back seat of his car? He alone could have caused so many fatal injuries to poor Tori. If he was sick enough to do the act of sexual assault, he would be sick enough to inflict more suffering by beating her. I wonder where his blood comes into play which was found on his gym bag? I sure hope Tori put up one heck of a fight and wounded him good. Or could MR have injured himself using the hammer.:waitasec:

 

[maxfactor]

Here is an interesting article about Warkworth Institution which is close to Trenton and houses a lot of pedophiles. Just give you an idea how things work on the inside.

You know they have barbecues every second weekend? And yet we have seniors in our country who can’t afford to feed themselves. It’s so disappointing.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/15/warkworth-guards-cured-of-child-killer-headache

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Yes, of course I want criminals punished - appropriately and for a duration commensurate with the severity of their crimes. No, I don't want them living in a Club Med environment. But I do believe in a humane treatment of all human beings and not reverting to Draconian conditions. Maybe I'm just a bleeding heart liberal. Or maybe I'm just a mother who tries to put herself in everybody's shoes.

Think about it: if it were your child sent to prison for the rest of his life, how would you want him treated?

JMO

:twocents:
:cowcouch:

R.I.P., Tori. Sadly, nothing can bring you back now.

As angry as I get at these monsters, I tend to agree with you AG. S'all I'm gonna say.

 

[swedie]

Copy and pasted from AG's post #280
Think about it: if it were your child sent to prison for the rest of his life, how would you want him treated?

I will answer your question AG only because you are asking for answers. If it was my grown adult male son who abducted, sexually assaulted and murdered an innocent child, I would most definitely want him locked up and away from any other potential victims, for the remainder of his life. It's a known fact these people cannot be rehabilitated. IMHO these people or not humane and do not deserve humane treatment. Would you want RW, PB, TLM, MR, CO living in your neighbourhood and lurking in the playgrounds where your children or grandchildren play? Just food for thought and no need to answer my last question. Again this is JMHO.

 

[antiquegirl]

thank you for that article wg. As sickening as mr sexually assaulting tori, what else did he do to tori that tlm was not witness to, while he had tori in the back seat of his car? he alone could have caused so many fatal injuries to poor tori. if he was sick enough to do the act of sexual assault, he would be sick enough to inflict more suffering by beating her. I wonder where his blood comes into play which was found on his gym bag? I sure hope tori put up one heck of a fight and wounded him good. Or could mr have injured himself using the hammer.:waitasec:

(bbm)

cristina tenaglia‏@cristina_chchtv

#mcclintic said she started kicking #tori.

.james armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7

mcclintic says she kicked tori. Not #rafferty as previous statement in may 2009 said.

am980.ca‏@am980_court

mcclintic says she also "stomped" tori, not rafferty.

.james armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7

mcclintic again reaffirms that she was the only one who hit and kicked tori. #rafferty

Adrian Morrow‏@AdrianMorrow

Terri-Lynn McClintic says she hit #ToriStafford with the hammer

Cynthia Mulligan‏@CityCynthia

#Rafferty - crown " who struck her with the hammer?". Mcclintic "me".

 

[Hello_Kitty]

An eye for an eye sounds good to me at this point in time. 2 evil people took part in raping and murdering an innocent sweet 8 year old child.

I have a hard time with the term "rehabilitation" with these 2 monsters. I do not want them rehabilitated and possibly thrown back out to society in the years to come, to be my neighbour. I feel they do not deserve to freely walk the streets ever again. Who wants them? Who wants them near their child, grandchild? These are just my feelings and my opinion only!

BBM

I think I would rather have them rehabilitated than not when they do get out

 

[KMouse]

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...fic-details-of-slaying-revealed-as-case-opens

"Your task will be to decide whether they acted together when they picked up Tori and took her away from her school, whether they acted together when they took Tori to Guelph, whether they acted together when (they went) to the Home Depot and bought the garbage bags and the hammer, whether they acted together when they took Tori to an isolated location where all of her clothing was removed other than her T-shirt, whether they acted together to bring about sexual assault on Tori, whether they acted together when Tori was killed, when she was placed in a garbage bag, and when heavy rocks were placed on top of her.”

I got my checklist out and I'm making my check marks based on the opening statement.

 

[swedie]

(bbm)

As sickening as MR sexually assaulting Tori, what else did he do to Tori that TLM was not witness to, while he had Tori in the back seat of his car? He alone could have caused so many fatal injuries to poor Tori. HTH

 

[matou]

It was just after 10 a.m. on April 8 -- five hours before an abductor lured Tori, 8, to her eventual death -- when Rafferty offered up a typically brief Facebook update that's taking on an ominous new tone.
Good things are coming my way, he wrote.



http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/21/9520751-sun.html

 

[matou]

Last month, police were called to the home after a violent confrontation between Rafferty and his mother's boyfriend, who neighbours say also lives there.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/21/9520751-sun.html

 

[dilbert]

What's wrong with those pictures? :jail:

Actually, this one would be even more appropriate, imo.

Are you going to be the person who puts the needle in and administer the deadly drug? People like to talk big, but when it comes down to it, could they do it?

I doubt it. There's a reason there is more than one man on a firing squad.

These types of debates are always funny to me, not funny "haha" but funny in that everyone that is ok with the death penalty are "ok" with it as long as it's someone else that is actually doing the killing. Maybe all the people that are pro death should each take turns being the executioner. <modsnip>

 

[nettie_82]

Prisons should have to be self sufficient as they once were instead of operating off the taxpayer's money. I am not necessarily for the death penalty because that would be the easy way out IMO. A part of me does feel though they should have to suffer one blow to the head just as Tori did for the rest of their pathetic lives while suffering in a cell with no perks whatsoever. Someone the other day made an interesting comment to me in regards to the DP. He wondered what would be wrong with hanging a rope in their cell for them to do with what they pleased, that way no one would have to be the actual murderer?! JMO

 

[dilbert]

Prisons should have to be self sufficient as they once were instead of operating off the taxpayer's money. I am not necessarily for the death penalty because that would be the easy way out IMO. A part of me does feel though they should have to suffer one blow to the head just as Tori did for the rest of their pathetic lives while suffering in a cell with no perks whatsoever. Someone the other day made an interesting comment to me in regards to the DP. He wondered what would be wrong with hanging a rope in their cell for them to do with what they pleased, that way no one would have to be the actual murderer?! JMO

Now there's a good alternative, but it's still an easy out. If you don't believe in heaven and hell, where's the punishment and suffering in death?