Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

@PrairieWind -- do you know anything about the grand jury here? How many days before they must return with an indictment? Thanks.
"Judge Rupert Wilhoit referred the case a grand jury at the conclusion of the hearing Tuesday after finding probable cause that Stines shot Mullins. Stines' next court date will come after a grand jury serves an indictment, which must be done within 60 days of the preliminary hearing, Bartley said. Stines would be discharged if the indictment were to come after the 60-day window, but it's likely that the indictment will be served within that timeframe, Bartley said." Kentucky judge shooting case referred to grand jury. What that means and what's next

Based on this, we're looking at 12.1 being the deadline.
 
But there has been no report from anyone that the sheriff was a violent or controlling person. You would think that if he was, by now, there would be people coming forward to report it. I don't think that is the case.
There has, neither, been anyone coming forward to say the judge was a known child molester. And yet that seems a popular suggestion for the shooting.
 

By John McGary

October 20, 2024 at 2:59 PM EDT

[..]

“It's our feeling that this case should be heard amongst a jury of our client’s peers. And his peers are the same people that elected him, and they are the people of Letcher County.”

Bartley said the fact that Stines’ preliminary hearing was held in Morgan County has no bearing on the venue for the trial.

“There's this presumption that, because we had a special judge appointed for the hearing, and we held that hearing in another county, that this case is already somehow taken out of the Letcher County system. It's not.”

Bartley said the case will be presented to a Letcher County grand jury and a chief regional judge will select the judge for Stines’ trial.
 
I wonder if he even knows what his defense is going to be? Lofty statement about a full acquittal when you have video evidence of the actual shooting taking place. All JMO
I posted that link a while back and believe at this point, he knows exactly what his defense is going to be. Despite what we all saw on that video, we don't know what other evidence the defense attorney says he has. To go for a full acquittal, it would have to be some seriously damning evidence. Otherwise, it'd never work.

jmo
 
I wonder if MS is cooperating with his counsel and has told him everything, that was the reason for my remark about his attorney's comment. For a while we weren't sure if he was. All jmo
My guess would be that he’s cooperating , and there’s a complex situation/motive and if they stick with murder and not adding the option of manslaughter, a full acquittal is likely- moo
 
My guess would be that he’s cooperating , and there’s a complex situation/motive and if they stick with murder and not adding the option of manslaughter, a full acquittal is likely- moo

It does not work that way (full acquittal and walk free) beginning with the KY statute that does not provide for degrees of Murder, only for degrees for Manslaughter 1 & 2, and Reckless Homicide. More important, KRS 507.020- Murder, also provides that nothing under this section shall preclude a conviction of Manslaughter-1 or any other crime.

If you listened to Bartley during the Prelim or the YT above, he argued the Common Wealth only proved probable cause for Manslaughter-1, despite the released video but I'm sure he'd also like to save his client from facing a capital murder trial (i.e., death penalty). Ultimately, I don't think Bartley any different than any other KY defense attorney where he's really looking at the type of sentence imposed.

Regardless whether or not the defense can successfully mitigate the element of intent, or convince the Judge or the Jury that the homicide was not planned, nor expected, and therefore should be considered manslaughter, Stines will be convicted, and won't be walking anywhere.

Since the KY Statute provides that reasonableness for the explanation for a defendant's extreme emotional disturbance be determined from the viewpoint of a person in the defendant's situation, under the circumstances as the defendant believed them to be, IMO, the law very much favors the defendant-- including Stines.

^^That said,this was no self-defense shooting, and Stines will NEVER be 'fully acquitted' for executing Mullins in his Chambers.

When I’m successful in these arguments, the main victory is that my client would no longer be eligible for the death penalty. Often, it’s not whether my client walks free, but rather the type of sentence that is ultimately imposed. KY Murder vs Manslaughter

 
I wonder if MS is cooperating with his counsel and has told him everything, that was the reason for my remark about his attorney's comment. For a while we weren't sure if he was. All jmo

Generally, if a defendant is not participating in their defense and/or not cooperating, we learn pretty quickly because the defense is required to notify the Court who Orders a competency evaluation for the defendant. To my knowledge, there have been no such Orders for Stines as of today. And given the interest in this case, I imagine several MSM are camped on the docket here. JMO.
 
Generally, if a defendant is not participating in their defense and/or not cooperating, we learn pretty quickly because the defense is required to notify the Court who Orders a competency evaluation for the defendant. To my knowledge, there have been no such Orders for Stines as of today. And given the interest in this case, I imagine several MSM are camped on the docket here. JMO.
Your take on: Grand jury returning a no true bill..
Jury nullification..
If possible; Evidence, lack of evidence, unusual compelling circumstances, as possible causes.
I am confused by several comments floating some possibilities affecting a "textbook" proceeding.
 
Your take on: Grand jury returning a no true bill..
Jury nullification..
If possible; Evidence, lack of evidence, unusual compelling circumstances, as possible causes.
I am confused by several comments floating some possibilities affecting a "textbook" proceeding.

Million dollar questions!

1) No True Bill -- I don't see this happening:

Reportedly, the Grand Jury must indict within 60 days of the prelim hearing which was held on Tuesday, Oct 1. That would be Nov 1, but since this date falls on a Sunday, I guess the default is by Monday, Nov 2 and this that date is just around the corner. According to Stines Defense Attorney Bartley, this is also a Letcher County Grand Jury.

The Common Wealth only called one witness during the prelim hearing -- lead investigator Clayton Stamper, who guarded that State's Murder-1 Charge pretty tight with his concise answers. Bartley was not allowed to argue for Manslaughter. Between the surveillance video of Stines shooting the unarmed Mullins, and any witnesses subpoenaed by the Grand Jury, I don't see anything standing in the way of Stines being indicted for Murder as initially charged in the citation by KY State Police.

While premeditation is not considered in defining capital murder under KY Statute KRS 507.020- Murder, the element of intent must be present. I dunno, seems to me those last seconds of the video when Stines is headed out the door until some motion or noise beneath the desk causes him to pause, and he stops, turns, aims his firearm under Mullins desk, and fires a couple more rounds before walking out the door -- that pretty much looks like intent to me.

Also, while I understand that the Defense can request to present evidence to the Grand Jury, they have no duty to accept it. In other words, I think Bartley's argument that the homicide was not planned, nor expected, and therefore this killing should be considered manslaughter, will have to come during trial.

Lastly, KY Murder Statute provides that a defendant under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance, determined from the viewpoint of a person in the defendant's situation, under the circumstances as the defendant believed them to be, is mitigation for the charge of manslaughter in the first degree, and not murder. But if true, only Stines can answer this alleged heat of the moment and/or crime of passion he was experiencing when he shot Mullins in his Chambers.

2) Jury Nullification:

I don't understand how or why anybody would want send the message that their once Sheriff is above the law, and that the rules of the land don't apply to him. My brain can't even touch that.

In fact, the law here also provides that even if Stines had a brain tumor, and his defense was this tumor caused him to act in an irrational manner when he executed Mullins, Stines defense against Murder would still fall under extreme emotional disturbance-- seeking a conviction for the lesser or manslaughter. MOO

Stines' next court date will come after a grand jury serves an indictment, which must be done within 60 days of the preliminary hearing, Bartley said

Bartley said the case will be presented to a Letcher County grand jury and a chief regional judge will select the judge for Stines’ trial.

 
Aren’t good defense attorneys supposed to always act like they have solid arguments to mitigate their clients criminal behavior?

No matter what the situation- a full acquittal is insanity for someone who decided, against the law he swore to, to be the judge, jury and executioner of someone who was clearly not an imminent, immediate physical threat.

Also, wouldn’t it make sense to continue the proceedings elsewhere? Feels like everywhere you turn would be a different conflict of interest..
all jmo
 
Reportedly, the Grand Jury must indict within 60 days of the prelim hearing which was held on Tuesday, Oct 1. That would be Nov 1, but since this date falls on a Sunday, I guess the default is by Monday, Nov 2 and this that date is just around the corner. According to Stines Defense Attorney Bartley, this is also a Letcher County Grand Jury.
Respectfully snipped @Seattle1 . If the prelim was held on October 1st, then isn't within 60 days around November 29th or 30th? Nov 2nd is more like within 30 days of the prelim. Moo
 
Aren’t good defense attorneys supposed to always act like they have solid arguments to mitigate their clients criminal behavior?

No matter what the situation- a full acquittal is insanity for someone who decided, against the law he swore to, to be the judge, jury and executioner of someone who was clearly not an imminent, immediate physical threat.

Also, wouldn’t it make sense to continue the proceedings elsewhere? Feels like everywhere you turn would be a different conflict of interest..
all jmo
Regarding your first two paragraphs, exactly! Is there really any basis or possibility of a full acquittal? Jmo opinion but no, that is nonsense. Whatever the circumstances may be, I'm not aware of vigilantism being legal. Imo I cannot see any possibility of a successful self defence case.

His council is just implying and creating some innuendo to feed the public, stir up already existing speculation. It follows that I also agree with your third paragraph re all the potential COIs and would add jury pool contamination if this goes to trial. Moo should be outside investigators and change of venue if it comes to a trial. All above is moo.
 
Respectfully snipped @Seattle1 . If the prelim was held on October 1st, then isn't within 60 days around November 29th or 30th? Nov 2nd is more like within 30 days of the prelim. Moo
Thanks @jepop -- I was recalling the quote below at December 1 which falls on Sunday, and errored when I typed Nov 2, which should have been December 2.

Based on this, we're looking at 12.1 being the deadline.
 
1) No True Bill -- I don't see this happening:

Reportedly, the Grand Jury must indict within 60 days of the prelim hearing which was held on Tuesday, Oct 1. That would be Nov 1, December 1 but since this date falls on a Sunday, I guess the default is by Monday, Nov 2 December 2 and this that date is just around the corner. According to Stines Defense Attorney Bartley, this is also a Letcher County Grand Jury.
^^ETA fix 60 day error thanks to @jepop :)
 

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