Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

[dmac55]

I don’t think he needed to answer the questions, but I think if he is terrified of the trooper, it is bizarre for him to outright ignore the questions.

(Paraphrased) Stines says come on be fair now. Trooper asks if what he did had anything to do with his family. No response. A moment later, Stines says come on be fair. Trooper says this is his opportunity to say if it had something to do with his family. Stines doesn’t respond. Stines says they aren’t taking him to the jail. Trooper says yes we’re taking you to the jail (they’re about 2 minutes away at this point). Stines says this isn’t the jail.

He replies to them when they engage with his concerns (the cuffs being tight, the heat in the car, where they’re taking him, who they’re passing him off to), but is noticeably not responding to what they say.

I may be alone in this, but to me it reads strongly as malingering.

If it was me, and i was experiencing the feelings and perceptions Stines was describing…
If someone asked me if the shooting event had anything to do my family my first thought would be that they’re trying to elicit secret/confidential/etc information about my family

My views/thoughts

 

[MrsWatson]

Maybe the deputy laughed when he heard it was the judge because he thought it was a ridiculous notion that someone would shoot a sitting judge at the courthouse in their little town.

MOO

 

[sunspun]

Maybe the deputy laughed when he heard it was the judge because he thought it was a ridiculous notion that someone would shoot a sitting judge at the courthouse in their little town.

MOO

Also, would the Trooper have even known yet that the Judge had died? He may have thought it wasn't a fatal shooting at that point.

 

[fsngruv]

I also, wonder if he didn't answer any of the questions presented by the officer because he hadn't been marandized, might another reason why he repeated "com'on guys" about a billion times. Very odd, disturbed, excited and frenzied behavior from a man who murdered another man, I can only imagine that behavior was a combination of whatever mental distress he was experiencing to get him to that point before and the mental distress caused by his actions in murdering his friend, a judge who is begging him to stop? Hard to imagine what a reasonable person would do, can't imagine Stines as a reasonable man after hearing him on the video.

 

[sunspun]

I also, wonder if he didn't answer any of the questions presented by the officer because he hadn't been marandized, might another reason why he repeated "com'on guys" about a billion times. Very odd, disturbed, excited and frenzied behavior from a man who murdered another man, I can only imagine that behavior was a combination of whatever mental distress he was experiencing to get him to that point before and the mental distress caused by his actions in murdering his friend, a judge who is begging him to stop? Hard to imagine what a reasonable person would do, can't imagine Stines as a reasonable man after hearing him on the video.

I was surprised his voice was that high!

 

[Dotta]

I was surprised his voice was that high!

In distress voice gets higher.

"Apart from anatomy,
stress, anxiety, excitement
(any emotion that causes us to move from baseline),
causes our voice to increase in pitch.

When people become frightened or excited,
the muscles around the voice box (or larynx) unconsciously contract, putting strain on the vocal cords,
making the pitch higher."

How the pitch of your voice affects your success : Public Speaking - Speak For Life

I often get many clients complain that they sound too high pitched or too juvenile.

www.speakforlife.com.au

 

[tlcya]

Thank you @Mack the Knife for an excellent breakdown of the body cam footage.

That laugh, yikes. You are right, could be nervous awkward laughter. Could be the adrenaline kicking in. I mean how often does a judge get shot in a small town? I wonder how often anybody gets shot in that little burg. Does he dislike the judge personally? Is he simply excited and anxious because this is a pretty big deal?

I also keep in mind he knew the judge was shot. not that he was dead yet. and not that Stines had been the shooter. It is off putting. Not sure what I think about that laugh just now.

The sheriff's demeanor? Wow, odd. I realize the officer or trooper who was transporting him to jail was asking repeatedly about if this had to do with his family because he was probably aware of those calls to the daughter from both men's phones. But man, Stines gave nothing when questioned about it. Repeatedly, an almost obscene amount of times. One might think he was being fed his defense.

Now I do understand that that is an interview technique that is sometimes successful in getting a suspect to talk about the crime and investigators will give a suspect enough rope to feel comfortable telling their own version of the truth that makes their crime make sense in their own mind. Sometimes minimizing their role, sometime maximizing their victim's role in what happened.

But Stines gave them zip, nada, nothing. Otherwise he was quite vocal. Come on now. Come on man. Be fair to me. Come on now. Make sure there ain't no weapons in there.

The complaints: cuffs are too tight. I can't get up in there. I can't get back there. It's too hot back here. I'm going to die of heat back here. I can't breath. I can't breath. I can't breath.

The very sort of things he himself has probably heard from suspects he has transported to jail hundreds of times. Yet it sounded so flat, so by rote coming from him.

The apparent paranoia and concern that one of the officers would do him harm? That they were going to drag him off into the forest to do what? That they not turn him over to "somebody". That they not put him in the Lesley County van? And yet even for these type of comments he didn't sound particularly terrified or agitated.

I'm going to have to watch this footage several more times before I know what I think. The bits and pieces seem like they are from several different puzzles and I can't make them form one picture.

 

[tlcya]

One thing I took particular note of. Nowhere do I hear Stines say anything about someone trying to abduct his wife and kid. So when exactly did that happen? Or have we not seen THAT officer's body cam footage and if not, why not? Because someone told Det. Stamper that he said that. I don't think Stamper pulled it from his back forty.

 

[tlcya]

If it was me, and i was experiencing the feelings and perceptions Stines was describing…
If someone asked me if the shooting event had anything to do my family my first thought would be that they’re trying to elicit secret/confidential/etc information about my family

My views/thoughts

makes me wonder if he said the thing about "they" are trying to abduct my wife and kid to officers at Lesley County jail and the LEO questions during the car ride made him think in some disjointed paranoid leap that the LEOs were too "interested" in getting him to talk about his family (wife and kid) and took that as some sort of indication they wanted to abduct or take them. I mean the guy asked if LEOs were taking him to the forest to hurt him.

IF he ever made the statement Detective Stamper testified to, maybe it was made AFTER that car ride to Lesley county, either because he truly was having a delusional break with reality, or because he quietly took the bait given him that maybe he did it because - family.

 

[fsngruv]

makes me wonder if he said the thing about "they" are trying to abduct my wife and kid to officers at Lesley County jail and the LEO questions during the car ride made him think in some disjointed paranoid leap that the LEOs were too "interested" in getting him to talk about his family (wife and kid) and took that as some sort of indication they wanted to abduct or take them. I mean the guy asked if LEOs were taking him to the forest to hurt him.

IF he ever made the statement Detective Stamper testified to, maybe it was made AFTER that car ride to Lesley county, either because he truly was having a delusional break with reality, or because he quietly took the bait given him that maybe he did it because - family.

Exactly! Nail on the head!

I mentioned a page before because I wondered where that footage was, or if it existed because we didn't see it in the new footage. If I understand correctly the agent who testified about that statement didn't hear it directly? So yeah! Where did it come from and when was it said? Maybe it was after the car ride.

I've wondered if it was said by him before the car ride because the officer seems to really narrow in on that question, I mean it's the only question he asks? He doesn't even volunteer anything else, so it's like he knew something before hand??

Someone before posted about time stamps, how long after the shooting did this ride take place, do we have enough info at this time to summize?

 

[KooshBall]

So far, I feel the most sorry for the women that felt they had no other option than having sex with sleezy men in power. MOO.

 

[KooshBall]

If I recall correctly, from reading this thread from the beginning, the statement about Stine's wife and kids being taken was allegedly said right after the shooting, possibly as he was being handcuffed. MOO

 

[Angelcat13]

Thank you @Mack the Knife for an excellent breakdown of the body cam footage.

That laugh, yikes. You are right, could be nervous awkward laughter. Could be the adrenaline kicking in. I mean how often does a judge get shot in a small town? I wonder how often anybody gets shot in that little burg. Does he dislike the judge personally? Is he simply excited and anxious because this is a pretty big deal?

I also keep in mind he knew the judge was shot. not that he was dead yet. and not that Stines had been the shooter. It is off putting. Not sure what I think about that laugh just now.

The sheriff's demeanor? Wow, odd. I realize the officer or trooper who was transporting him to jail was asking repeatedly about if this had to do with his family because he was probably aware of those calls to the daughter from both men's phones. But man, Stines gave nothing when questioned about it. Repeatedly, an almost obscene amount of times. One might think he was being fed his defense.

Now I do understand that that is an interview technique that is sometimes successful in getting a suspect to talk about the crime and investigators will give a suspect enough rope to feel comfortable telling their own version of the truth that makes their crime make sense in their own mind. Sometimes minimizing their role, sometime maximizing their victim's role in what happened.

But Stines gave them zip, nada, nothing. Otherwise he was quite vocal. Come on now. Come on man. Be fair to me. Come on now. Make sure there ain't no weapons in there.

The complaints: cuffs are too tight. I can't get up in there. I can't get back there. It's too hot back here. I'm going to die of heat back here. I can't breath. I can't breath. I can't breath.

The very sort of things he himself has probably heard from suspects he has transported to jail hundreds of times. Yet it sounded so flat, so by rote coming from him.

The apparent paranoia and concern that one of the officers would do him harm? That they were going to drag him off into the forest to do what? That they not turn him over to "somebody". That they not put him in the Lesley County van? And yet even for these type of comments he didn't sound particularly terrified or agitated.

I'm going to have to watch this footage several more times before I know what I think. The bits and pieces seem like they are from several different puzzles and I can't make them form one picture.

Your post reminded me of something that caught my attention earlier - Stines’ comment about making sure there were no weapons in the back of the police car.

I would think it would be unusual to keep weapons in the “cage/prisoner” section of a police vehicle. I dated a cop for several years and the back seats were checked at the beginning and end of every shift, as well as after anyone was placed in that section to make sure it was COMPLETELY empty.

Was Stines simply reverting to his training and what he would say to officers in his employ (even if these particular officers were not as they appeared to be KY State Police) - reminding them that checking the back seats is protocol?

Or was he afraid (real or delusional) that they (the troopers) were going to shoot/kill him and make it look like he managed to access a weapon and kill himself?

 

[OldAce]

I also, wonder if he didn't answer any of the questions presented by the officer because he hadn't been marandized, might another reason why he repeated "com'on guys" about a billion times. Very odd, disturbed, excited and frenzied behavior from a man who murdered another man, I can only imagine that behavior was a combination of whatever mental distress he was experiencing to get him to that point before and the mental distress caused by his actions in murdering his friend, a judge who is begging him to stop? Hard to imagine what a reasonable person would do, can't imagine Stines as a reasonable man after hearing him on the video.

"disturbed, excited and frenzied behavior from a man who murdered another man".
Not odd at all. Just think how you would feel/react had you just murdered someone and was going into custody.
Plus his "treat me fair" and reticence may well be based on experience of how some LE treat another LE in dire circumstances. Cuffs go on; mouth shuts from any offerings, just what is next.

He may have had some knowledge of how the one asking those questions had treated other prisoners in such circumstances in the past. As in "Ole Bob gets right in there right off". The "A" team is at work quickly.

 

[Seattle1]

One thing I took particular note of. Nowhere do I hear Stines say anything about someone trying to abduct his wife and kid. So when exactly did that happen? Or have we not seen THAT officer's body cam footage and if not, why not? Because someone told Det. Stamper that he said that. I don't think Stamper pulled it from his back forty.

I understood that statement came about when Stines was being booked at the Leslie County jail, and I certainly think we know where he got the idea from.... um, cough, cough. JMO.

ETA: What was it -- about an hour car ride to Leslie County with the trooper...

 

[Vaderman]

So far, I feel the most sorry for the women that felt they had no other option than having sex with sleezy men in power. MOO.

Agreed.

 

[Knox]

I understood that statement came about when Stines was being booked at the Leslie County jail, and I certainly think we know where he got the idea from.... um, cough, cough. JMO.

ETA: What was it -- about an hour car ride to Leslie County with the trooper...

Wow really? I did not previously understand the timing of that event as you state it. I thought it was said right after he shot him at the courthouse. If that's true, my thoughts on motive just poofed. Thanks for sharing.

Will the truth come out at trial or will Stines cop a plea deal?

 

[OldAce]

Wow really? I did not previously understand the timing of that event as you state it. I thought it was said right after he shot him at the courthouse. If that's true, my thoughts on motive just poofed. Thanks for sharing.

Will the truth come out at trial or will Stines cop a plea deal?

If there is a trial and he testifies...There is a lot of maneuvering to be done yet. As they say: If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the facts are against you, argue the law. If both are against you, just argue... "There is many a slip tween cup and lip."

 

[fsngruv]

"disturbed, excited and frenzied behavior from a man who murdered another man".
Not odd at all. Just think how you would feel/react had you just murdered someone and was going into custody.
Plus his "treat me fair" and reticence may well be based on experience of how some LE treat another LE in dire circumstances. Cuffs go on; mouth shuts from any offerings, just what is next.

He may have had some knowledge of how the one asking those questions had treated other prisoners in such circumstances in the past. As in "Ole Bob gets right in there right off". The "A" team is at work quickly.

You're correct, definitely not odd frinzied behavior considering he murdered someone but to me as a "presumed" rational person , I find his behavior odd, I've never killed anyone so I can't say this for sure, imo. In all fairness I agree, his frinzied behavior isn't odd considering he killed a man in cold blood. But it's a bit odd, if we're considering Stines did some vigilant mercy killing because of alleged nefarious behavior from the judge, let alone acts to his family, and it's a bit odd because the defense has alleged mental distress, as others have noted, it appears it could be melingering. Again, I can't say I've killed anyone, let alone for "good" reason, or severe mental distress. So I agree, I would think I would be frinzied but it's a bit odd considering the notions made from his defense. Maybe I was getting caught up in my adjective's tho, and using them a bit carelessly. Lol

 

[fsngruv]

Your post reminded me of something that caught my attention earlier - Stines’ comment about making sure there were no weapons in the back of the police car.

I would think it would be unusual to keep weapons in the “cage/prisoner” section of a police vehicle. I dated a cop for several years and the back seats were checked at the beginning and end of every shift, as well as after anyone was placed in that section to make sure it was COMPLETELY empty.

Was Stines simply reverting to his training and what he would say to officers in his employ (even if these particular officers were not as they appeared to be KY State Police) - reminding them that checking the back seats is protocol?

Or was he afraid (real or delusional) that they (the troopers) were going to shoot/kill him and make it look like he managed to access a weapon and kill himself?

I thought the same thing, why does he think there's a weapon in the back cage, as if they would put a weapon in there so he could possibly unalive himself, but then wondered if he was just talking about other weapons in the car. As if, like you stated one of the troopers might kill him. Where did that paranoia come from? His own experience as a sheriff and deputy or some new perceived paranoid?