GUILTY KY - Trey Zwicker, 14, beaten to death, Louisville, 11 May 2011 #2

[Cherry]

Hey Tiger Balm thanks! I appreciate it; I missed it; had live feed up but empty court room and now they are playing the states closing again.

 

[aa9511]

What else does a 15 yr old do on a school night? He could of offered other stories like everyone else but he didn't because he was being truthful.

Young did not know what his father had done, he was not told by Gouker, he was at school. Nor did he know what his father was doing getting everyone to cover Gouker's own hiney by using Josh Young as the murderer.

Gouker stated he thought for sure at any moment he was going to arrest him, but they didn't. Which gave him time to work his minions, and get more and more paranoid and violent towards Amanda. But she still kept her mouth shut, till it was clear she had better get out of there or she would be next.

Hmm...that still doesn't account for the whole night until Amanda was asleep, Gouker was with her except for few times he went back and forth to Cassie's. If he wasn't with Amanda, then where was he? If he had been at Cassie's while Cassie and John were awake, they would have seen him. If he hadn't been with Amanda, Amanda would have told police that she did not see Gouker after X time. We know for sure he was with Amanda at 1:06 Circle K video, wearing same shirt he wore the next day. Sure, during one of the times he went to Cassie's, he could have snuck out and killed Trey, but that still means he would have had to, during that time, also clean up/shower/change, as well as figure out a place to stash the dirty clothes/weapon until later.

So Gouker only had slim window of time to do the killing/clean-up...whereas Little Josh had the whole night because he was completely unaccounted for the whole night. Cassie and John never said they saw him actually asleep downstairs...just that he was watching a movie and then they were alseep.

 

[geevee]

I don't see how you can convict anyone of murder (or any other offense) with witnesses as unreliable as the ones we've seen.

 

[digitalwindows]

Sigh, Amanda is not charged with the murder, whereas Little Josh is. So where Little Josh and Big Josh slept that night has directly to do with the murder. All of their actions for that night are directly relevant to the murder. Does it matter whether Big Josh lived with Amanda or not? If he didn't live with Amanda or lived with Amanda, is that gonna make the difference between whether he killed Trey or did not kill Trey? No, what matters is what exactly were his actions and minute-by minute what did he do on the night of May 10 going into May 11.

We agree to disagree on this one. I think in a Murder case that is only a circumstantial, everything a witness says, especially those who are attacking the defendants character and will say what ever is needed no matter the real truth, to justify thier own self interests when it suits them under oath, then credibility, should be closely scrutinized and given the weight it deserves accordingly.

 

[writer7]

For me, the thing about that part is that he told two different versions during his original interviews right after the murder. Yes, the versions are telling, but even just having two versions is a huge problem.

His defense never said he was afraid of or intimidated by Big Josh, either. I assumed that would be the defense, but they didn't put up any evidence of it. If his own team isn't even saying he was afraid of Big Josh, I'm not going to assume that's what happened. Usually the defense throws everything at the wall, so it's important -- imho -- that they never asserted that JY had any problem at all with JG. Quite the contrary. Him idolizing his criminal dad is no defense at all to what he is charged with.

I don't believe the individual witnesses in this case, either. But the combined effect strains probability if they are all supposed to be lying. The way the motives would have to work doesn't pan out for so many of them, either. Big Josh is telling a different story than they are now, remember. If it were all about his power and intimidation, they wouldn't go against the story he's telling now. Not all of them. Certainly not the inmates, for instance.

 

[aa9511]

I don't see how you can convict anyone of murder (or any other offense) with witnesses as unreliable as the ones we've seen.

I guess I'm one of the few that generally believed the witnesses...except for the inmates, which I'm unsure of and probably would not take their testimony into account.

The others, like Cassie, John, Angelique, etc., I believed and believe that they are not, as the prosecution said, "sophisticated" enough to spin an elaborate web they have all concocted together. Their "un-sophistication" actually makes them more believable to me.

 

[digitalwindows]

Hmm...that still doesn't account for the whole night until Amanda was asleep, Gouker was with her except for few times he went back and forth to Cassie's. If he wasn't with Amanda, then where was he? If he had been at Cassie's while Cassie and John were awake, they would have seen him. If he hadn't been with Amanda, Amanda would have told police that she did not see Gouker after X time. We know for sure he was with Amanda at 1:06 Circle K video, wearing same shirt he wore the next day. Sure, during one of the times he went to Cassie's, he could have snuck out and killed Trey, but that still means he would have had to, during that time, also clean up/shower/change, as well as figure out a place to stash the dirty clothes/weapon until later.

So Gouker only had slim window of time to do the killing/clean-up...whereas Little Josh had the whole night because he was completely unaccounted for the whole night. Cassie and John never said they saw him actually asleep downstairs...just that he was watching a movie and then they were alseep.

Leaving reasonable doubt, right? Do you believe because this boy went to sleep and then got up and went to school, he killed Trey? Where is that proof to his involvement?

I believe that Amanda fell asleep and Gouker got up and went out the back door. Do you think he would put his shirt back on or is it possible he did not? I believe that Trey did eat the food, and I believe that pissed Gouker off too.

 

[digitalwindows]

I guess I'm one of the few that generally believed the witnesses...except for the inmates, which I'm unsure of and probably would not take their testimony into account.

The others, like Cassie, John, Angelique, etc., I believed and believe that they are not, as the prosecution said, "sophisticated" enough to spin an elaborate web they have all concocted together. Their "un-sophistication" actually makes them more believable to me.

I don't think you are in the minority. I agree those folks are not "sophisticated" and had no reason to spin those stories. Gouker did and he did produce those stories for them. If you listen to the tape of the call from Gouker and the Dt. Russ. She forgets the story, and has to be guided along till she gets it right. It is also the reason Gouker told the prosecutors that "it's hard to be a mastermind when your dealing with stupid people."

 

[Coldpizza]

When do u guys think the verdict will come in? Is the jury gonna work past 5...like say until late into the night? I think if they work through, we can get verdict late at night...if they stop, then tomorrow.

I'm thinking they will deliberate tonight and do so rather late, sleep on it, take a final vote in the AM and deliver a verdict before noon tomorrow.

 

[TigerBalm]

Chelsea Rabideau ‏@WHAS11Chelsea 1m

Jury has ordered pizza...taking a dinner break. #JoshYoung #whas11
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https://twitter.com/WHAS11Chelsea

 

[AngelWings444]

PER HLN: Jury ordering dinner.

 

[katydid23]

Leaving reasonable doubt, right? Do you believe because this boy went to sleep and then got up and went to school, he killed Trey? Where is that proof to his involvement?

I believe that Amanda fell asleep and Gouker got up and went out the back door. Do you think he would put his shirt back on or is it possible he did not? I believe that Trey did eat the food, and I believe that pissed Gouker off too.

But how did Gouker get Trey to go down to that ditch area? I can see how JY could lure Trey down there, but how would big Josh convince trey to go there?

 

[AngelWings444]

I guess I'm one of the few that generally believed the witnesses...except for the inmates, which I'm unsure of and probably would not take their testimony into account.

The others, like Cassie, John, Angelique, etc., I believed and believe that they are not, as the prosecution said, "sophisticated" enough to spin an elaborate web they have all concocted together. Their "un-sophistication" actually makes them more believable to me.

I actually believed the inmates! They received nothing, except beatings in prison, for their testimony! One of them was scared to testify because of the beatings, took a contempt on his record. Now, if they received something for their testimony, I wouldn't believe them, but they did not. One of them has been assaulted a bunch of times for telling the truth. Believable to me.

 

[AngelWings444]

I don't think you are in the minority. I agree those folks are not "sophisticated" and had no reason to spin those stories. Gouker did and he did produce those stories for them. If you listen to the tape of the call from Gouker and the Dt. Russ. She forgets the story, and has to be guided along till she gets it right. It is also the reason Gouker told the prosecutors that "it's hard to be a mastermind when your dealing with stupid people."

Gouker couldn't remember any details from the murder! IMO - he wasn't there. JY murdered Trey. JMO

 

[digitalwindows]

I actually believed the inmates! They received nothing, except beatings in prison, for their testimony! One of them was scared to testify because of the beatings, took a contempt on his record. Now, if they received something for their testimony, I wouldn't believe them, but they did not. One of them has been assaulted a bunch of times for telling the truth. Believable to me.

I agree but who were they qouting? Gouker.

 

[digitalwindows]

And remember Josh only lived there for 6 weeks full time. The rest of the time it was only on the weekends. So for 5 weeks and a few days Gouker and Josh Young lived at Cassies house full time.

His defense never said he was afraid of or intimidated by Big Josh, either. I assumed that would be the defense, but they didn't put up any evidence of it. If his own team isn't even saying he was afraid of Big Josh, I'm not going to assume that's what happened.

I don't think he was afraid of him till he went on that ride to Alabama. I think Big Josh worked hard to gain his sons trust and treated him like a buddy during those 6 weeks he was his dad."

I don't believe the individual witnesses in this case, either. But the combined effect strains probability if they are all supposed to be lying. The way the motives would have to work doesn't pan out for so many of them, either. Big Josh is telling a different story than they are now, remember. If it were all about his power and intimidation, they wouldn't go against the story he's telling now. Not all of them. Certainly not the inmates, for instance.

I think the key witness is Cassie. Not credible IMO. Also both her and john are unable to change their testimony, even though they both do not believe Josh Young did it, and they said so under oath. She has told her baseball bat story under oath, changing it would be lying under oath, and the terms of the theft convictions would be revoked. She admitted this on the stand, she would go back to jail.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Does anyone know what the jury watched? I heard on HLN they asked for the interviews and other testimony to review....

 

[TigerBalm]

Does anyone know what the jury watched? I heard on HLN they asked for the interviews and other testimony to review....

The jury asked to review Gouker's testimony and Young's interrogation tapes

 

[digitalwindows]

Does anyone know what the jury watched? I heard on HLN they asked for the interviews and other testimony to review....

They watched Gouker on the stand
and Youngs tapes with the police.

 

[AngelWings444]

Verdict is in!!!!!