Kyron's doctors appointment

[Billylee]

I thought that Skyline did not call home when a student was absent? Or did they only do it at the close of the day? I can't recall now...if they did not call home as policy, then no one would have been alerted any sooner to Kyron being gone, right?

They don't? Oh my, what we could have gotten away with when we were kids, if not for that policy! LOL When did schools stop calling a parent when a child doesn't show up for school? It costs them $$ when a child's not in school now also so I find that odd if they don't. Maybe it's in the school liability thread, I'll look, or if anyone else knows.

 

[STEADFAST]

bbm.


the bolded statement attributed to terri does not say the appt was FOR baby k as you say in your statement.

No, but it's widely interpreted as meaning that -- for instance by the writer of the article linked. Not much difference, really, one way or the other as the email implies that the teacher misheard Terri's comment that she was going to look at exhibits as a comment that she was taking both children to a drs appointment THAT DAY. (Nothing about a note or confusion about a different day, as she told JF.) It's a glaring inconsistency between Terri's stories.

 

[Calliope]

They don't? Oh my, what we could have gotten away with when we were kids, if not for that policy! LOL When did schools stop calling a parent when a child doesn't show up for school? It costs them $$ when a child's not in school now also so I find that odd if they don't. Maybe it's in the school liability thread, I'll look, or if anyone else knows.

Prior to this, Skyline did not have a policy of calling parents when kids were absent from school. Now they do; that's one of the changes implemented due to what happened to kyron.

 

[wondering1]

They don't? Oh my, what we could have gotten away with when we were kids, if not for that policy! LOL When did schools stop calling a parent when a child doesn't show up for school? It costs them $$ when a child's not in school now also so I find that odd if they don't. Maybe it's in the school liability thread, I'll look, or if anyone else knows.

As someone else mentioned, it appears that they do now. A school spokesperson said that they didn't use one previously b/c they didn't have a truancy problem (paraphrasing)

 

[mmmagique]

The school day was almost over. There had been no calls from the school or anyone else inquiring about Kyron's whereabouts. A phone call, possibly an e-mail, would be how they'd contact her about any concerns they had about his whereabouts. There was nothing to indicate the school was suspicious or worried.

The school wasn't suspicious or worried. They thought Kyron was with her.

If she truly wanted to fish, why not head to the school to pick up the project, and take advantage of the opportunity to put "worried step-mother" into full swing?

Many if not most criminals like to have their crime discovered by someone else, or at least have someone with them when they "discover" what has happened.

This is not out of the ordinary, though. This isn't unreasonable behavior. In fact, it's boringly normal type behavior and correspondence between a parent and teacher. There wasn't some wild, out of the ordinary, fabricated reason for the e-mail. The e-mail was appropriate, timely, and conducted in a reasonable manner.

Even if she knew that the teacher wouldn't see it in time to make a difference because she was at a talent show?

She was on Facebook a lot and had posted a lot of pictures of her family, including the children. This is not an unusual activity. If anything, it follows her normal pattern of activity. Maybe she was projecting normalcy because it was normal.

If TMH very seldom talked about Kyron on her FB and seldom posted pictures of him, would that then be suspicious? There's been talk that that was the case. I wish I could prove or disprove that...either way would be good to know.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Could this whole case come down to a matter of she said/she said?

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html


You know, by now for sure LE knows whether or not there was a doctor's appointment on the 11th of June. So, let's say there was and that it had been made prior to June 4th. The next question is WAS there a piece of paper called an absentee form ever filled out and presented to Kyron's teacher? Isn't it interesting that this question has never been answered yet?

Now, if TH is telling the truth, then it boils down to whether or not a simple absentee form for Kyron for the 11th existed or not, and whether or not TH gave it to Ms. Porter the morning of the 3rd or 4th. Correct?

Because if TH had done that, then Ms. P would have not marked Kyron absent on the 4th, because she had a piece of paper saying it was the 11th. However, if Ms. Porter never received the piece of paper, Kyron would have been marked absent, but a call would/or should have gone out to the home, no matter what she may have heard. Without that piece of paper for an excused absence, a call would have been made. Correct?

So it comes down to one of two things, either Ms. Porter never received the document and TH lied about it, and Ms. Porter should have reported Kyron absent without permission,

OR, Ms. P did receive the document, thought it was for that day (for whatever reason, saw the word Friday, didn't check the date, whatever, and shoved it in her pocket and due to the hectic day just didn't bother looking at it a second time. Now, it's afternoon, and Kyron goes missing.

Ms. Porter, according to the above is confronted with TH (and probably KH) TH tells the teacher (according to the above statement) "I gave you the absentee note for the 11th, not the 4th, why did you mark my son absent? Don't you think Ms. P would produce the note and that would be the end of that? Unless, unless, Ms. P when contacted by the school secretary (I'm assuming that's who'd initally contacted her about Kyron missing) then, looked at the note for the 11th, realized she'd made the mistake of marking Kyron absent on the wrong day, and to cover her butt and her school district's butt, she tossed the note and said "you never gave me any note for any day, what are you talking about?" ( Wouldn't we all have liked to have been a fly on the wall during that conversation?)

Does this whole issue of who is responsible for Kyron's disappearance boil down to a piece of paper?

Does anyone know if those absentee forms are printed on a duplicate type paper?

Hi Billylee. You make some very good points and boy, do I soooooo wish that Skyline did have such procedures as the the unexcused absence would have mandated a call to the parents/guardians to see why the child was absent without having followed policy of having an excused absence documented paper...But sadly I do not believe there was any such policy at Skyline... And it is only now AFTER Kyron having gone missing that they even do the "automated" calls home to those students marked absent..

ITA with you that had this policy been in place[the one of which you speak that any student absent{esp. for such as a pre planned appt for dr}MUST have given this excused absence doc filled out by the parent&given to the teacher] and IF THIS POLICY WAS NOT FOLLOWED [meaning the teacher never received the excused absence doc that it MANDATED a "personal" call to the parents/guardian of the student absent].. If this policy had been in place as of June 4th at Skyline IT WOULD HAVE SAVED THE LIFE OF AN INNOCENT STUDENT OF THEIRS.[and thats looking at it from all sides of the "fence" of whether Kyron was taken by Terri in a pre planned "disappearance" and execution of such plan OR IF Kyron was abducted by someone else from Skyline that morning]... Either way if that policy had been in place that important call to the parents/guardian of Kyron would have known VERY EARLY ON, rather than 6+ hours AFTER the disappearance had taken place, that KYRON WAS INDEED MISSING AS OF ROLLCALL THAT MORNING OF THE 4TH..

 

[mmmagique]

See, I'm not sure such a policy would have made a difference.

Only because, Terri showed up there and spoke with the teacher. If some are to be believed, she told the teacher that they were going to an appointment. Terri was a well known figure in that school, and the teacher probably would have felt (rightly imo,) (or wrongly) that she had seen and spoken to the parent, so a phone call would have been unnecessary.

 

[BeanE]

If Ms. Porter never received a absentee consent form, then would it not have been standard to mark Kyron absent, BUT a phone call would be made to the parents because it was an unexcused absence?

And, if she DID receive the absentee consent form, where IS it, and why would she answer to TH, "I thought the appointment was for today". Why not just produce the document and clear herself for marking Kyron with an excused absence?

It's been discussed a lot in the thread about the school's responsibility that the school has 2 related policies which, if there was an appointment, should have produced 2 signed pieces of paper by an adult responsible for Kyron. One would be a signed note in advance that Kyron would be leaving prior to the regular dismissal time. The paperwork for the doctor may have sufficed if it had the date of the medical appointment on it. The second is that students leaving prior to the regular dismissal time have to be checked out at the office, and that process includes the responsible adult signing the child out.

So, if there was a medical appointment on June 4, there should be two signed pieces of paper for Kyron for that date. No idea where they are. I'd also like to see that paperwork, if it was indeed given to the teacher, to see if there was a date, and if so, what that date was.

It's really a no-brainer. If there was a medical appointment on June 4, there should be two signed pieces of paper, per school policy.

 

[STEADFAST]

It's been discussed a lot in the thread about the school's responsibility that the school has 2 related policies which, if there was an appointment, should have produced 2 signed pieces of paper by an adult responsible for Kyron. One would be a signed note in advance that Kyron would be leaving prior to the regular dismissal time. The paperwork for the doctor may have sufficed if it had the date of the medical appointment on it. The second is that students leaving prior to the regular dismissal time have to be checked out at the office, and that process includes the responsible adult signing the child out.

So, if there was a medical appointment on June 4, there should be two signed pieces of paper for Kyron for that date. No idea where they are. I'd also like to see that paperwork, if it was indeed given to the teacher, to see if there was a date, and if so, what that date was.

It's really a no-brainer. If there was a medical appointment on June 4, there should be two signed pieces of paper, per school policy.

The operative phrase, IMO, is "should be." I think the school had a more lax practice than was outlined in their policies, especially with parents who the teachers were familiar with. I'm sure Terri was well aware she "could" take Kyron out of school in an informal manner, even if she didn't do it. After all, when she wrote the email to her friend, she didn't question that the teacher would think she was leaving with Kyron though there would be no paperwork, just the verbal miscommunication seemed to suffice as explanation.
So, I'm not sure that the absence of signed pieces of paper would really be much of a clue about when an appointment was supposed to be, although the presence of signed papers might be pretty significant.

 

[debs]

And I think the school covered their butt.

 

[cluciano63]

If the school had started phoning around at 10am...and Kyron had been gone since about 8:45 or so...I am not at all sure it would have made much difference in what his actual and current fate is...he was probably already on his way to wherever he may be, or if not alive, probably was already not alive by 10AM.

Now a camera at every door...that at least would have shown when and with whom he left...if not saved him.

 

[pufnstuf]

The operative phrase, IMO, is "should be." I think the school had a more lax practice than was outlined in their policies, especially with parents who the teachers were familiar with. I'm sure Terri was well aware she "could" take Kyron out of school in an informal manner, even if she didn't do it. After all, when she wrote the email to her friend, she didn't question that the teacher would think she was leaving with Kyron though there would be no paperwork, just the verbal miscommunication seemed to suffice as explanation.
So, I'm not sure that the absence of signed pieces of paper would really be much of a clue about when an appointment was supposed to be, although the presence of signed papers might be pretty significant.

Had any formal procedure been enforced at Skyline, Kyron wouldn't have been abducted from Skyline. It would have happened at Sea World, or Disneyland, or at the beach, or in his back yard, or outside the gym, or somewhere else. The reason that she chose Skyline as the setting from which to abduct him was because she was well aware that she could take him from there, no cameras, no sign-out, no nothing. Whether it would have happened at Skyline or not, it WOULD have happened.

Great post, BTW. And my opinion, expressed above.

 

[BeanE]

The operative phrase, IMO, is "should be." I think the school had a more lax practice than was outlined in their policies, especially with parents who the teachers were familiar with. I'm sure Terri was well aware she "could" take Kyron out of school in an informal manner, even if she didn't do it. After all, when she wrote the email to her friend, she didn't question that the teacher would think she was leaving with Kyron though there would be no paperwork, just the verbal miscommunication seemed to suffice as explanation.
So, I'm not sure that the absence of signed pieces of paper would really be much of a clue about when an appointment was supposed to be, although the presence of signed papers might be pretty significant.

Well, of course, we can all be 100% confident that there was absolutely no signed paper nor any other indication whatsoever that Terri was taking Kyron to a medical appointment that day.

We have ample, crystal clear evidence of that, directly from LE.

Yer gonna love this. Yup. Yer gonna love it a lot. :angel:

 

[STEADFAST]

Well, of course, we can all be 100% confident that there was absolutely no signed paper nor any other indication whatsoever that Terri was taking Kyron to a medical appointment that day.

We have ample, crystal clear evidence of that, directly from LE.

Yer gonna love this. Yup. Yer gonna love it a lot. :angel:

Put up or shut up.

 

[BeanE]

Put up or shut up.

We know that LE had no indication whatever that Terri removed Kyron from the school to go to a medical appointment, because they spent more than $350,000 and called in searchers from across both Oregon and Washington state to search, not medical offices in Portland, but a 2 square mile grid of the school and surrounding area.

As a bonus... they stated repeatedly that Kyron was last seen inside the school. But we'll put that aside, and concentrate on where they searched, backed up by all that $$$$$$$$.

The school. They searched the school. How incompetent would a PD, FBI, and all those agencies have to be to think there was credible evidence that a stepmother took her stepchild out of the school, and spend all that widely publicized (publicized by themselves, no less) time, effort, and money, on a search in and around the school, once, twice, three, and four times, when all the time they thought the stepmom had taken the child out of the school and to a doctor's office or elsewhere?

(I told ya you'd love it.)

 

[eyes4crime]

Well, of course, we can all be 100% confident that there was absolutely no signed paper nor any other indication whatsoever that Terri was taking Kyron to a medical appointment that day.

We have ample, crystal clear evidence of that, directly from LE.

Yer gonna love this. Yup. Yer gonna love it a lot. :angel:

Wouldn't the Dr's office have record of the scheduled appointment? Hopefully that info was supboenaed for the GJ. It would be confidential and protected information so I doubt its been made public - or has it?

 

[gardeness]

We know that LE had no indication whatever that Terri removed Kyron from the school to go to a medical appointment, because they spent more than $350,000 and called in searchers from across both Oregon and Washington state to search, not medical offices in Portland, but a 2 square mile grid of the school and surrounding area.

As a bonus... they stated repeatedly that Kyron was last seen inside the school. But we'll put that aside, and concentrate on where they searched, backed up by all that $$$$$$$$.

The school. They searched the school. How incompetent would a PD, FBI, and all those agencies have to be to think there was credible evidence that a stepmother took her stepchild out of the school, and spend all that widely publicized (publicized by themselves, no less) time, effort, and money, on a search in and around the school, once, twice, three, and four times, when all the time they thought the stepmom had taken the child out of the school and to a doctor's office or elsewhere?

(I told ya you'd love it.)

Thank you, BeanE, for your well-thought posts!

 

[STEADFAST]

We know that LE had no indication whatever that Terri removed Kyron from the school to go to a medical appointment, because they spent more than $350,000 and called in searchers from across both Oregon and Washington state to search, not medical offices in Portland, but a 2 square mile grid of the school and surrounding area.

As a bonus... they stated repeatedly that Kyron was last seen inside the school. But we'll put that aside, and concentrate on where they searched, backed up by all that $$$$$$$$.

The school. They searched the school. How incompetent would a PD, FBI, and all those agencies have to be to think there was credible evidence that a stepmother took her stepchild out of the school, and spend all that widely publicized (publicized by themselves, no less) time, effort, and money, on a search in and around the school, once, twice, three, and four times, when all the time they thought the stepmom had taken the child out of the school and to a doctor's office or elsewhere?

(I told ya you'd love it.)

Well, frankly, I don't exactly get it. The only people who, IMO, ever thought that Terri took Kyron out of school for a drs appointment were Ms Porter and that little boy whose mom was interviewed. Even Terri admits in an email that Ms Porter thought Kyron was leaving for an appointment.

Doesn't mean there weren't any slips of paper about an appointment (though I doubt there were.) Quick call to the dr in question. "No. No appointment." Terri's all, "Oh, those slips were for next Friday!" Who knows, except we can be sure the appointment angle was ruled out very, very quickly.

Like I said, Terri knew that school was lax on policies, especially when a parent was there to vouch for the absence.

I think it's great that they didn't focus only on the theory that Terri had taken Kyron out of the school. They definitely covered all bases. Why, they searched the school and grounds so well, as you describe, that we can be sure he must have been taken away from there. By whom?

Could it be by the woman who told the teacher she was taking him for a drs. appointment that never was?

 

[BeanE]

Thank you, BeanE, for your well-thought posts!

I pulled that one right out of thin air lol.

 

[BeanE]

Well, frankly, I don't exactly get it. The only people who, IMO, ever thought that Terri took Kyron out of school for a drs appointment were Ms Porter and that little boy whose mom was interviewed. Even Terri admits in an email that Ms Porter thought Kyron was leaving for an appointment.

Doesn't mean there weren't any slips of paper about an appointment (though I doubt there were.) Quick call to the dr in question. "No. No appointment." Terri's all, "Oh, those slips were for next Friday!" Who knows, except we can be sure the appointment angle was ruled out very, very quickly.

Like I said, Terri knew that school was lax on policies, especially when a parent was there to vouch for the absence.

I think it's great that they didn't focus only on the theory that Terri had taken Kyron out of the school. They definitely covered all bases. Why, they searched the school and grounds so well, as you describe, that we can be sure he must have been taken away from there. By whom?

Could it be by the woman who told the teacher she was taking him for a drs. appointment that never was?

I don't know, Steadfast. It just occurred to me that if the teacher and/or school was so sure Terri had taken him for a doctor's appt, that it was awfully strange for LE to sink all that money and effort into searching the school and grounds. It tells me the teacher/school were unable to convince MCSO, the FBI, and all those other 20 agencies that Terri had taken Kyron out of the school. It's a curious thing, and it's too late, and I'm too tired to think of what it may mean.

I just thought I'd toss it out there so I wouldn't be the only one to fall asleep tonight noodling about it.