Kyron's doctors appointment

[jadejazzkayla]

The only person who has said anything about a male chaperone is Terri. For all we know, she made that up after the fact. It was in the emails she sent a few days after Kyron disappeared. There has been no corroborating evidence Kyron was seen with a "male chaperone."

bbm..

that we know of.

 

[Morag]

The only person who has said anything about a male chaperone is Terri. For all we know, she made that up after the fact. It was in the emails she sent a few days after Kyron disappeared. There has been no corroborating evidence Kyron was seen with a "male chaperone."

I think that the email may even have been on June 5. And we know for sure that Terri was questioned extensively over the next few days. So there was every opportunity to tell LE "male chaperone, etc." and to tell them where she got that idea, "teacher said, parent said, etc." Surely that question was asked, "who said", and answered. It may be that the "male chaperone" was identified, and cleared, or ignored, or never identified.

It seems very unlikely that if Terri were told such a thing that she would have failed to mention it to LE. And if she did mention it, then it seems very unlikely that LE would have failed to investigate and clear it up.

 

[Etilema]

I have to wonder what Ms. P thought at the end of the day, when Kyron's backpack and jacket were still hanging there. It was a very cool and rain day IIRC.

I just did a few minutes of searching, but couldn't find the photos showing the inside of Kyron's classroom. I wanted to see if maybe the coat area wasn't easily visible, so the teacher may not have noticed the bag and coat still there. Some classrooms just have hooks at the back of the room, but others have a little closet area, or coat room, with doors.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Your understanding of the meaning of the word convince and mine differs.

If it's even simply that LE asks, "Why did you mark him absent", and the teacher responds, "Because his SM said she was taking him to the dr.", and LE decides, looking at all the info they have, that the child is likely in or around the school, then the teacher did not convince LE that the SM took the child from the school.

That is the sense in which I used the word convince.

I just think this is simply a case of a child being marked absent because he wasn't there in class.

He was there earlier at the Science Fair with Terri, but not when the roll call was taken in class. JMOO, but I think it's just very simple.

I think there was a confusion over the days of Dr. appointments, but blaming all that on the teacher seems unfounded. Teachers trust parents, and teachers are also human. This was a hectic Friday with a science fair and a talent show.

Kyron seems to have disappeared around the same time that Terri left the school - that's the real problem with this story.

But as far as searching the school - it was LE's duty to search the school. That actually shows that they gave Terri the benefit of the doubt, doesn't it? They believed Terri that Kyron was supposed to be on that schoolbus in the afternoon, and that he never left with her. Much more stuff came out after that which changed their minds, and besides, Kyron wasn't found at the school. But that doesn't mean the search of the school "proves" that the teacher didn't have paperwork about a Dr.'s appointment. We don't really know what she had.

The things could be totally exclusive - paperwork, appointment times, search of the school - not all connected into one "aha" moment for me.

MOO

 

[debs]

Searching the school is logical, since LE would have had the initial statements from Terri and the teacher, and the benefit of the doubt went to KYRON, who might have been in that school somewhere, perhaps injured, incapacitated, or etc. Terri and the teacher weren't measured in their decision to search the school. Sorting it out later, to determine whether the teacher was confused, or perhaps just harried during an extraordinarily busy and chaotic day.

I do believe each person, Terri and the teacher, have reasons to want to point the finger at the other. However, I strongly believe, despite whatever else she might be or what she may have done, that Terri, having made such a show of leaving the school as to wave to Kyron from down the hallway, travel down to a FM for a receipt, make sure she's punched in at the gym, and home by the time Kaine gets there, that she's not going to want the teacher to be able to look at her and blame her. Like Kaine taking the baby, I think Terri was surprised to note that the teacher would dare make up some BS story about DR appt's, when she had made certain to tell the woman about the Dr the day before (I believe there's something in MSM about that.) Why be redundant? IF Terri did this, then she would have needed the teacher to be the one who got the blame. You don't hand your patsy any reason to point back at you, you know?

SO, I stand behind the notion that K Porter is covering for her mistake, and ultimately the mistake of the school, for having such a lax policy in place that day that the student who should have been in the care of his teacher, disappeared. They (both the school and the teacher) have a lot to lose, namely $$. It makes the world go 'round.

I just think, IF Terri did this, she ran up against someone who was just as willing to cover her own butt, too.

 

[Jo in Calif]

The teacher marked him absent, because he was not in class, not because she thought he had a Dr. appt.
I'm sure when Kyron woke up sick on previous days, Terri would call the office and inform them that Kyron would not be in school that day. Kyron's teacher would mark him absent because he was not in her class that day, even though she would not know why. Parent's call the office, not the teachers.
So IMO, it was Terri's responsibility to call the office Thurs. and inform them that Kyron had an appointment on Fri. the 4th. Now if in fact, the Dr. appoitment was for the following Fri., the 11th. and she brought papers from the Dr. to be filled out on the 3rd., someone had those papers and gave them to LE. IMO it has also been corroborated from the Dr's. office that they either faxed the papers to the school or Terri picked them up.
We aren't privy to any of this information, that's why it's so hard for us to figure out, if in fact Kyron had a Dr. appt. and on which day.

 

[SmoothOperator]

It's been discussed a lot in the thread about the school's responsibility that the school has 2 related policies which, if there was an appointment, should have produced 2 signed pieces of paper by an adult responsible for Kyron. One would be a signed note in advance that Kyron would be leaving prior to the regular dismissal time. The paperwork for the doctor may have sufficed if it had the date of the medical appointment on it. The second is that students leaving prior to the regular dismissal time have to be checked out at the office, and that process includes the responsible adult signing the child out.

So, if there was a medical appointment on June 4, there should be two signed pieces of paper for Kyron for that date. No idea where they are. I'd also like to see that paperwork, if it was indeed given to the teacher, to see if there was a date, and if so, what that date was.

It's really a no-brainer. If there was a medical appointment on June 4, there should be two signed pieces of paper, per school policy.

Above BBM.. TIA to anyone who has the linky for this above bolded policy of Skylines... Again TIA

 

[human]

I think that the email may even have been on June 5. And we know for sure that Terri was questioned extensively over the next few days. So there was every opportunity to tell LE "male chaperone, etc." and to tell them where she got that idea, "teacher said, parent said, etc." Surely that question was asked, "who said", and answered. It may be that the "male chaperone" was identified, and cleared, or ignored, or never identified.

It seems very unlikely that if Terri were told such a thing that she would have failed to mention it to LE. And if she did mention it, then it seems very unlikely that LE would have failed to investigate and clear it up.

If TH left him at 8:45 and LE has said several times that the last person to see Ky was TH,, where does the male chaperone come into play?

 

[human]

Prior to his June 4 disappearance, Kyron Horman’s stepmother, Terri Horman, informed his teacher he had a doctor’s appointment on Friday, the sources said, and it was why there was no expectation Kyron would be in class after the science fair. Once class began at 10 a.m., his teacher marked him absent.

According to sources, investigators believe Terri Horman was vague about which Friday she was referring to when she gave notice to the school Kyron would be gone and only after he was missing did she clarify that the doctor’s appointment was on June 11, the Friday after the science fair.

Portland Public Schools spokesperson Matt Shelby told KATU News, "Two teachers were the last school staff to see Kyron at Skyline. His own teacher and another teacher saw him inside the school with his stepmother, and there didn't appear to be anything out of the ordinary.”


Kim Holm’s son, Kurtis, who Terri Horman photographed with his science project around the time she took a picture of Kyron that morning, said her son knew about the appointment too.

“And the teacher said, ‘I thought he left with his mom,’ because they thought they had a doctor appointment,” Holm said. “And then at lunchtime, Kurtis ate lunch with him every day, he wasn’t there at lunchtime. And then I got a call at 4:30ish, saying he didn’t get off the bus, I guess. And Kurtis said, ‘Oh yeah, I knew he was already gone all day Mom.’”

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html




I have to wonder what Ms. P thought at the end of the day, when Kyron's backpack and jacket were still hanging there. It was a very cool and rain day IIRC.

What did the teacher think? Probably the same thing that thousands of teachers think everyday, "The child forgot to take his things home."

This is not a unique or unusual thing whatsoever.

I teach in a very cold climate, and every year there is a table filled with lost and found winter jackets. Why doesn't anyone notice or care? Beats me.

Don't the parents wonder where the jacket is? Do children have so many jackets that they don't notice a missing one?

 

[Jo in Calif]

If TH left him at 8:45 and LE has said several times that the last person to see Ky was TH,, where does the male chaperone come into play?

Otta Terri's hat, that she seems to have all kinds of goddies in.

 

[Tink56]

Above BBM.. TIA to anyone who has the linky for this above bolded policy of Skylines... Again TIA

I became curious and looked at the Skyline Handbook linked in the information forum. It's gone. That makes sense since it's a new school year.

Here's the link for the 2010-11 Handbook, but I think some procedures may have been changed or "tightened" to prevent an issue. Also included is this school year's attendance policy:

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/319.htm

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/Parentand_StudentHandbook_2010-11.pdf

Although, technically, I think, Terri left before Kyron entered the classroom, after the first bell. Therefore, even if she was taking him to a doctor's appointment, she would not have had to sign him out, as he'd not been "in school" under a teacher's supervision.

Did anyone keep a copy of last year's policies?

 

[human]

I know that I am a broken record, but people keep focusing on THE appointment with THE paperwork. Perhaps there was an appointment on the 11th for THE paperwork appointment. TH would want to make sure the teacher had the paperwork completed for that and has given her lead time.

Can anyone tell me why Ky couldn't have a doctor's appt on the 4th? Children are not entitled to one appointment a year. There is no reason that Ky couldn't have been going to the doctor on the 4th as well.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I know that I am a broken record, but people keep focusing on THE appointment with THE paperwork. Perhaps there was an appointment on the 11th for THE paperwork appointment. TH would want to make sure the teacher had the paperwork completed for that and has given her lead time.

Can anyone tell me why Ky couldn't have a doctor's appt on the 4th? Children are not entitled to one appointment a year. There is no reason that Ky couldn't have been going to the doctor on the 4th as well.

But, that's just it. If he did in fact have a Dr. appt,. on the 4th., why didn't Terri take him?
Maybe she thought it was the teachers responsibility to take him? Sorry!

 

[SurfieTX]

I know that I am a broken record, but people keep focusing on THE appointment with THE paperwork. Perhaps there was an appointment on the 11th for THE paperwork appointment. TH would want to make sure the teacher had the paperwork completed for that and has given her lead time.

Can anyone tell me why Ky couldn't have a doctor's appt on the 4th? Children are not entitled to one appointment a year. There is no reason that Ky couldn't have been going to the doctor on the 4th as well.

"The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,”

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

After reading that, I'm not too sure which kid had the appt.

 

[gwenabob]

"The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with K**** for a doctor’s appt.,”

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html

After reading that, I'm not too sure which kid had the appt.

I think that was her intention!

 

[SmoothOperator]

I became curious and looked at the Skyline Handbook linked in the information forum. It's gone. That makes sense since it's a new school year.

Here's the link for the 2010-11 Handbook, but I think some procedures may have been changed or "tightened" to prevent an issue. Also included is this school year's attendance policy:

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/319.htm

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/Parentand_StudentHandbook_2010-11.pdf

Although, technically, I think, Terri left before Kyron entered the classroom, after the first bell. Therefore, even if she was taking him to a doctor's appointment, she would not have had to sign him out, as he'd not been "in school" under a teacher's supervision.

Did anyone keep a copy of last year's policies?

Skyline School Attendance Procedures
Parents must contact the Skyline office when a child will be absent from school.

Please do not send the note to only the classroom teacher.

Parents may contact the school in the following ways:

1. Email to [email protected] (preferred).

2. Send a note in advance of absence to school office.

3. Call Skyline at (503)-916-5212.

Early morning is a very busy time at school. Sending an email is the best way to notify us of absences.)


Yep! ITA Tink! Take a look at the above ESP. The part about they now are required to send note to MORE THAN JUST THE TEACHER!!!

No doubt whatsoever that's due to what's happened with Kyron.

Yes I definitely agree thAt there has definitely been a "tightening" up on what's required for absences.

I still have seen no proof whatsoever of the policies in place as of June 4,2010. So anyone who has a link with that specific info of the "2" required docs for absence at the time of June 4, 2010. TIA!




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[SmoothOperator]

I think that was her intention!

The more confusion the BETTER!
(my personal opinion of Terri's thoughts about the "appt" situation that she has created)




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[citigirl]

What did the teacher think? Probably the same thing that thousands of teachers think everyday, "The child forgot to take his things home."

This is not a unique or unusual thing whatsoever.

I teach in a very cold climate, and every year there is a table filled with lost and found winter jackets. Why doesn't anyone notice or care? Beats me.

Don't the parents wonder where the jacket is? Do children have so many jackets that they don't notice a missing one?

I teach in a very warm climate, and we have the same table!

 

[BeanE]

I still have seen no proof whatsoever of the policies in place as of June 4,2010. So anyone who has a link with that specific info of the "2" required docs for absence at the time of June 4, 2010. TIA!

I'm sorry, Smooth. I had posted that they were discussed in the school responsibility thread. I thought you would look there for that discussion, and see where gliving had quoted them, which began the discussion.

The first is the signed note I mentioned, and the second is the signed check out I mentioned when the student is checked out at the office.

Early Release
Students leaving school prior to dismissal
time need a signed note stating
the time and purpose. For security purposes,
students will come to the office
where they will be released to the parent/
adult. Parents must sign their student
out from the office. We ask that
parents do not go directly to the classroom
to pick up their child.
Students can be released to individuals
on the District’s signed registration
card only. A written note is required if
a person other than the child’s parents
are picking up a student from school.
Photo identification will be required

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/school-skyline/Parent_Handbook_2008-Final.pdf

The pdf file was at the link at the time of the discussion, but is no longer on the net, but other policies in effect at that time are also quoted in that same thread.

 

[debs]

The teacher marked him absent, because he was not in class, not because she thought he had a Dr. appt.
I'm sure when Kyron woke up sick on previous days, Terri would call the office and inform them that Kyron would not be in school that day. Kyron's teacher would mark him absent because he was not in her class that day, even though she would not know why. Parent's call the office, not the teachers.
So IMO, it was Terri's responsibility to call the office Thurs. and inform them that Kyron had an appointment on Fri. the 4th. Now if in fact, the Dr. appoitment was for the following Fri., the 11th. and she brought papers from the Dr. to be filled out on the 3rd., someone had those papers and gave them to LE. IMO it has also been corroborated from the Dr's. office that they either faxed the papers to the school or Terri picked them up.
We aren't privy to any of this information, that's why it's so hard for us to figure out, if in fact Kyron had a Dr. appt. and on which day.

Okay, Jo......so now then we have the school to think about. Why did they not follow up and find out why Kyron was at school? Are we going to allow the school to say "Well, the teacher told us she THOUGHT Kyron left with his mom for a Dr's appt." Seems to me that's another assumption this school made on the behalf of Kyron's safety, with zero follow up.