MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #22 Retrial

[HarmonyE.]

But he was ordered to preserve it. And many believe he got a heads up.

“Higgins confirmed he eventually changed his personal phone number on Sept. 29, 2022 — one day before he received a court order to preserve the phone, which Karen Read’s lawyers were seeking as evidence.”

Karen Read trial: Brian Higgins confirms he threw phone away at military base

Seven witnesses took the stand Tuesday after Higgins's multi-day testimony concluded, including John O'Keefe's adolescent niece and nephew.

www.boston.com

It feels like nitpicking to say he wasn’t ordered to ‘turn in’ his phone, when the defense was seeking it as evidence in the case.

Brian Albert "got rid" of his phone at the same time. Just before the preservation order was issued.

I find it hard to believe these things were conincidental. Proctor again, passing on secrets to his pals?

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I fear this is where the whole thing about the error bars and confidence intervals might go over the juries head unless they did stats to a highish level!

My understanding of Wiffin is John's phone was always in practical terms reporting the same GPS coords, and of course was finally recovered from close to that exact location. Therefore it is overwhelmingly likely it was always at those coords.

Of course you can cherry pick a period of low signal and claim that you can't exclude it being in the house. But that is of course not evidence it ever was in the house. Indeed the totality of evidence is clear the phone never moved after 12.32 (GPS + Battery + Apple Health)

It’s not just cherry picking that he concedes that John could have been in the house. It means his evidence isn’t as strong as he’s presenting it to be.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Brian Albert "got rid" of his phone at the same time. Just before the preservation order was issued.

I find it hard to believe these things were conincidental. Proctor again, passing on secrets to his pals?

Exactly. And who gets rid of their phone number when everyone prefers to keep the same number? Decades ago you had to do that when you changed carriers but not anymore.

 

[mrjitty]

But he was ordered to preserve it. And many believe he got a heads up.

Why did he need a heads up? The D motioned the court to get the phone back on sept 15th

“Higgins confirmed he eventually changed his personal phone number on Sept. 29, 2022 — one day before he received a court order to preserve the phone, which Karen Read’s lawyers were seeking as evidence.”

Karen Read trial: Brian Higgins confirms he threw phone away at military base

Seven witnesses took the stand Tuesday after Higgins's multi-day testimony concluded, including John O'Keefe's adolescent niece and nephew.

www.boston.com

It feels like nitpicking to say he wasn’t ordered to ‘turn in’ his phone, when the defense was seeking it as evidence in the case.

He literally wasn't ordered to turn it in. The D motion was denied. The preservation order was simply to preserve the status quo while the motion was considered. In other words, he was not allowed to destroy it once served, until the Court made its decision. After the court rejected the D motion, he was free to destroy it.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

It’s not just cherry picking that he concedes that John could have been in the house. It means his evidence isn’t as strong as he’s presenting it to be.

He said it was technically possible the phone location included the house to a low degree of confidence during the 5 seconds the diagram covered.

It's evidence of a possibility that can't be excluded, during those seconds

Seeing as the phone was found at the centre of confidence rings, the only sensible conclusion is it was always were it was found.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Getting back to Chloe. Do we have proof that it’s the same dog? Do we have actual dental records before and after the night in question and how old are they?

Also, there is no exact science where a hard surface (teeth) meet a soft surface (skin and flesh).

One of my friends was bitten by a dog about 6 weeks ago after it grabbed the top of her hand. It ripped a 2 X 2 inch area of skin right off her hand. They had to take skin off her forearm and graft it over her hand because the skin was entirely ripped off. I saw a photo of it and it was just flesh and tendons exposed. No teeth marks just a big rip. So my feeling is you can’t prove anything by moulds. I also think there were both teeth and nail marks on JOK’s arm. How do you prove which is which?

 

[Forest_Wood]

But he was ordered to preserve it. And many believe he got a heads up.

“Higgins confirmed he eventually changed his personal phone number on Sept. 29, 2022 — one day before he received a court order to preserve the phone, which Karen Read’s lawyers were seeking as evidence.”

Karen Read trial: Brian Higgins confirms he threw phone away at military base

Seven witnesses took the stand Tuesday after Higgins's multi-day testimony concluded, including John O'Keefe's adolescent niece and nephew.

www.boston.com

It feels like nitpicking to say he wasn’t ordered to ‘turn in’ his phone, when the defense was seeking it as evidence in the case.

From the article:

Brian Higgins testified Tuesday that he got rid of his cellphone in 2022 after he received a call from the target of an investigation he was working on and learned that his personal phone number was posted on the internet.

Higgins, an agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, testified that receiving a call from the target of an investigation in July 2022 gave him pause.

“I had a lot of concerns, so July of ’22 is when I probably started thinking about, ‘You know what, I’ve got to get rid of the telephone number itself,’” he said.

Higgins confirmed he eventually changed his personal phone number on Sept. 29, 2022 — one day before he received a court order to preserve the phone, which Karen Read’s lawyers were seeking as evidence. Higgins testified that he learned the defense motion had been denied in October and got rid of his old phone “about two months after that,” because it was “beaten” and he’d already gotten a new one.

Answering questions from defense attorney David Yannetti, Higgins confirmed that he never received anything in writing canceling or lifting the preservation order for his phone, nor did he consult anyone before disposing of the device. He testified that he didn’t know whether he removed the SIM card when he got rid of his phone but said that if he did do so, he either cut the SIM card or broke it.

“Then you drove to a military base and you threw both the destroyed SIM card and the phone into a dumpster, didn’t you?” Yannetti asked.

Higgins confirmed he was driving through a military base on Cape Cod and said he believed he put the destroyed SIM card and phone into a dumpster there.

He further testified that he didn't transfer anything from his old phone to his new one, including photos, videos, and possible text messages with members of the Albert family, who owned 34 Fairview Road at the time. On redirect, Higgins told Assistant District Attorney Adam Lally he didn't have much saved on his personal phone to begin with.

“In the sense that I’m divorced, I don’t have kids, I didn’t have the typical memories that somebody would’ve had on their phone that they wanted to preserve,” Higgins said.

---

Oh yes, it gave him so much pause and he was so concerned that it took him 3 months from the time he learned his number was on the internet to when he got rid of his phone, not just his phone, but EVERYTHING on that phone. C'mon!

 

[RatFace]

I didn't follow the first trial and have not been reading much of anything about either trial except what's on WS. I know there is a theory that there was a fight that killed JOK, but who is thought to be the killer? And all the attendees supposedly saw it but are keeping their mouths shut? After seeing Jen's introduction yesterday where she talked about how she knew JOK and how close they were, I have a hard time imagining that she would not want the real killer caught. This person killed a dear friend of hers.

 

[Soulmagent]

I didn't follow the first trial and have not been reading much of anything about either trial except what's on WS. I know there is a theory that there was a fight that killed JOK, but who is thought to be the killer? And all the attendees supposedly saw it but are keeping their mouths shut? After seeing Jen's introduction yesterday where she talked about how she knew JOK and how close they were, I have a hard time imagining that she would not want the real killer caught. This person killed a dear friend of hers.

The other side is that he was not her family . Do you think she is closer to John than her family? You can tell the family are close.

 

[RatFace]

The other side is that he was not her family . Do you think she is closer to John than her family? You can tell the family are close.

Not than her own husband but possibly others. In any case, it would be such a huge risk to cover up a homicide. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's not something a normal person would do IMO. She seemed normal and like a good parent with all the sports activities she and her husband did with their kids.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

During the first trial, I believed Collin Albert was the one everyone was protecting and could not figure what the reason is other than he was involved. Now, I am more focused on Higgins as the culprit.

Higgins makes more sense to me as the main aggressor due to his flirtations with Karen. But I am firmly in the ‘we don’t know, and we will never know because of how badly the investigation was bungled’ camp. MOO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Getting back to Chloe. Do we have proof that it’s the same dog? Do we have actual dental records before and after the night in question and how old are they?

Also, there is no exact science where a hard surface (teeth) meet a soft surface (skin and flesh).

One of my friends was bitten by a dog about 6 weeks ago after it grabbed the top of her hand. It ripped a 2 X 2 inch area of skin right off her hand. They had to take skin off her forearm and graft it over her hand because the skin was entirely ripped off. I saw a photo of it and it was just flesh and tendons exposed. No teeth marks just a big rip. So my feeling is you can’t prove anything by moulds. I also think there were both teeth and nail marks on JOK’s arm. How do you prove which is which?

First - I would think you’d need to prove it was a dog that left those marks

IMO

 

[jepop]

Getting back to Chloe. Do we have proof that it’s the same dog? Do we have actual dental records before and after the night in question and how old are they?

Also, there is no exact science where a hard surface (teeth) meet a soft surface (skin and flesh).

One of my friends was bitten by a dog about 6 weeks ago after it grabbed the top of her hand. It ripped a 2 X 2 inch area of skin right off her hand. They had to take skin off her forearm and graft it over her hand because the skin was entirely ripped off. I saw a photo of it and it was just flesh and tendons exposed. No teeth marks just a big rip. So my feeling is you can’t prove anything by moulds. I also think there were both teeth and nail marks on JOK’s arm. How do you prove which is which?

As far as I can gather, the Chloe tooth mold stuff isn't admissible because of some scientific reason. Can't recall the reasons but it's not coming in. There was a hearing or decision on that earlier in the year. Will have to dig it up.

Moo, most of the wounds to JOK's right arm are claw marks. Maybe one or two 'glancing' bites( not full bites but more tooth scrapes). Basing my opinion on testimony of Dr Russell and Dr Sheridan at trial X 1. It was brief and I think there will be much more details and analysis this time. Jmo.

 

[Soulmagent]

First - I would think you’d need to prove it was a dog that left those marks

IMO

Nope. They have to prove Jok was hit by a car. They say KR hit him with HER car. Now they have to prove that KR is Quilty of exactly what they say.
No one charged the dog. Problem is he was not hit by a car.

 

[waldojabba]

<modsnip - unnecessary>

No Higgins did not destroy his phone they day before he was to turn it in. Higgins was never ordered to turn his phone in.

Higgins confirmed that he received a notice on Sept. 30, 2022, preventing him from altering or destroying anything on his cellphone. Jackson noted that Higgins previously testified at another hearing that he changed phone carriers and phone numbers on the 29th, one day prior to receiving the protective order.

Karen Read trial: Defense grills Brian Higgins on the fate of his cellphone, SIM card

Brian Higgins’s testimony came to an explosive finish Friday.

www.boston.com

 

[Spectrix]

Something that Brennan has done much better than Lally is that his focus on the timeline helps corroborate Jen's testimony. She can see the Lexus but where is John?

We know now from Wiffin that John was still sitting inside the Lexus with Karen for many minutes

In contrast, Karen claims she is waiting 10 mins by herself and calling John. We know that she wasn't by herself and she didn't call from in front of 34F.

Yeah, I'm a little confused on the timeline.
I gather there isn't a location history for KR's phone (location services turned off?)
At what point on this timeline did KR (allegedly) leave 34 Fairview?
She's calling John constantly between 12:33 and 12:39 (bluetooth calls from the Lexus?)
At some point in the middle of that she reaches JOK's house. (Listed as 12:36am... how solid is this time?)

If the WiFi connection at JOK's is accurate, where did she have time to wait X amount of time for John at 34 Fairview, call him over and over, and get all the way back to JOK's residence?

 

[jepop]

Higgins confirmed that he received a notice on Sept. 30, 2022, preventing him from altering or destroying anything on his cellphone. Jackson noted that Higgins previously testified at another hearing that he changed phone carriers and phone numbers on the 29th, one day prior to receiving the protective order.

Karen Read trial: Defense grills Brian Higgins on the fate of his cellphone, SIM card

Brian Higgins’s testimony came to an explosive finish Friday.

www.boston.com

Thanks for setting that straight.

 

[HarmonyE.]

As far as I can gather, the Chloe tooth mold stuff isn't admissible because of some scientific reason. Can't recall the reasons but it's not coming in. There was a hearing or decision on that earlier in the year. Will have to dig it up.

The judge ruled the prosecution expert cannot talk about the molds matching or not matching a specific dog because it's been over 3 years and dogs' mouths change over time.

I personally think the prosecution is making a big mistake if they get too much into the dog bite issue. The defense doesn't have to prove Chloe caused those scratches/lacerations up and down John's arm. Only that they couldn't have been caused by his arm - and his arm alone - coming into contact with a taillight, which ARCCA will handle. Spending too much time on Chloe and her mouth can only help the defense.

 

[Forest_Wood]

How did JMc see and hear all those details about what was occurring between KR and KerR when she was on the call with 9-1-1 in a state of shock?

 

[Soulmagent]

How did JMc see and hear all those details about what was occurring between KR and KerR when she was on the call with 9-1-1 in a state of shock?

She has powers maybe ? Like the kind witches have?