MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #23 Retrial

[MerlinFalcon]

Ex cop was homeowner. Iirc he was the ex chief of police. JMO

That’s right, I meant that I think he showed it to a cop on the scene. I am not sure who made the decision.

 

[rescuemom]

It does seem strange for a family to leave their front door unlocked when they all seemed to be able to sleep through screaming, crying, sirens and multiple cars and first responders driving and parking in front of their home. Particularly in the case that even their dog apparently slept through or did not respond to the chaos growing right outside on their lawn or may have been closed in one of the bedrooms with her owners anyway and thus couldn’t stop an intruder anyway. Wouldn’t they be worried about a potential break-in occurring as a potential robber walked right through their front door while they were still asleep thus unaware, unprepared and unable to respond?

I was under the impression from the first trial that Chloe was somewhat like a guard dog or a bit nervous and aggressive when around strangers or people entering the home. However, did any of the first responders or investigators ever see or hear from her during the times they were around the Albert’s home? Just curious because my dogs would usually bark and be right up against the front door or window when a lot of excitement or is near the front or back of our home, this allowing others to hear them.

I agree with what others have commented. It is interesting that JMc didn’t run into the house to at least grab supplies, scream for help from her brother, sister or nephew, raise the alarm that her friend was laying right on their front lawn while in desperate need of help or emergency first aid or just check in on her loved ones since none of them had come outside and maybe wondering why or pray that they too haven’t been harmed. Or at least maybe honk the horn of KR’s car to wake up her relatives or raise the alarm that something bad was going on and she needed their attention. To be fair though I can’t judge or place blame or shame on how someone reacts to a trauma or response after finding and witnessing the loss of a loved one. People of course can react in a variety of different and perhaps in the moment she froze or was only able to do or think or engage so much before she became overwhelmed or overcome and shut down as a response. JMO


MOO/my own speculation or thoughts

But no normal person would ignore all that you mentioned under the circumstances. Remember as far as we know Jen Mccabe was the only one, after she left the scene of the Albert house, wanting to know at 2:27am after she got home, how long it took for someone to die in the cold. Then, at 6 something back at the scene out in the cold, she discovered he wasn't dead. Whether she knew or not how badly he was injured she needed him dead. Otherwise what story could he tell???

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I must be watching a different trial. Karen Read seems incredibly guilty. The things that are treated like some sort of conspiracies seem very typical to me. If you ask me what time I ate breakfast this morning, I can't tell you. Especially if you ask me was it 7:37 or 7:52? And did you talk to your husband about it? I mean, yeah. It's normal life. I don't think she thought she killed him, necessarily, but she knew she hit him. It's why she called 53 times. I'm so confused by all the people who want her to be not guilty and have others blamed. Of course, we just finished Delphi. So nothing shocks me anymore.

Jen was adamant that she saw Karen’s car at 1245 in trial one. She tried to change that yesterday. She also has been adamant that Karen said I hit him X 3 except for to a few cops who took her statement and the grand jury. She said no such thing at the time but apparently her memory improves with time.

 

[rescuemom]

I've been a bit slow on the uptake. I'm now understanding that this call was omitted in trial x1. It was recovered and JMc, being forced to admit she made the call, had no feasible answer as to why she made it. The data says the call lasted 18 seconds, but JMc denies it was ever answered. Again, why, why, why? Will we see corresponding data from Nicole Albert's phone during cross? I assume so. The defense is not done with the implications this data raises yet Imo.

EBM. Corrected length of call from 36 to 18 seconds.

Will we see corresponding data from Nicole Albert's phone during cross?

I think we just did

 

[rescuemom]

Why weren't statements done at police department? Why weren't they taped? Why weren't they SIGNED??

Because they were doing as little as possible given the circumstances as they knew it. It was the Albert house where this occured.

 

[Snoods]

How does she remember that????

(Jen claiming she did not speak to her sister for 38 seconds at 5:07, and did not leave a voicemail.)

Ha! Seems oor Jen has a veeeery selective memory. The fact that she takes 10 minutes of hemming and hawing and “I don’t remember” and “Well that’s what it says on the page” to finally answer one of AJ’s questions and she instantly remembers each and every one of the CW’s (well rehearsed) questions down to the seconds, is not lost on the jury. It’s comical.

 

[Tortoise]

John's injuries are completely inconsistent with him being struck by any vehicle.

She just happened to break her taillight and one or two cocktail glasses around his fatally wounded body. And know she would find him at the side of the road.

 

[Forest_Wood]

bbm .. The question in my mind would be how would she know what looked out of place in a yard that she wasn't familiar with?

John wasn’t entirely covered in snow i’d imagine. She described seeing him as looking like a buffalo on the prairie so to her, his frame stood out. She was actively looking for him along the roads as Kerry was focused on driving and Jen was doing who knows what in the front seat. Why would someone who just murdered her boyfriend make a big display of seeing his body? Wouldn’t a guilty person pretend not to see him or simply ask if that mound might be him or something more subtle?
MOO

 

[HarmonyE.]

She just happened to break her taillight and one or two cocktail glasses around his fatally wounded body. And know she would find him at the side of the road.

Did you watch the first trial?

The glass found at the scene had no connection to the glass John left the bar with. Probably old glass from some other event that happened near the road. Fairview is a busy road.

The taillight is of course a much longer story. One we're going to hear lots about. But Jen flatly lied (again) yesterday when she said she knew Nicole and her family were safe because she saw taillight next to John's body.

Nope. The Canton police didn't find a speck of taillight that morning. Even using a leaf blower to search the area around his body.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

She just happened to break her taillight and one or two cocktail glasses around his fatally wounded body. And know she would find him at the side of the road.

The video of her leaving John’s place when she discovered he didn’t come home shows her SUV hitting his as she backed out. It was the back left taillight. His car moved when she hit it.

 

[rescuemom]

What I like about ADA Brennan, is that he wants the witness to own their testimony- he doesnt put words into their mouths. He doesnt want them to assume anything. If they dont know it, then they dont know it, thats okay with him. in my opinion he only wants a conviction on facts, not to simply win a case.

ADA Brennan is brilliant and compassionate.

My opinion

Brennen tells a story in the form of a testimony in and with his words and maybe gets a question or two in there and sometimes even waits for an answer. He's hardly brilliant and compassionate he wants to win at any cost! IMO.

 

[HarmonyE.]

John wasn’t entirely covered in snow i’d imagine. She described seeing him as looking like a buffalo on the prairie so to her, his frame stood out. She was actively looking for him along the roads as Kerry was focused on driving and Jen was doing who knows what in the front seat. Why would someone who just murdered her boyfriend make a big display of seeing his body? Wouldn’t a guilty person pretend not to see him or simply ask if that mound might be him or something more subtle?
MOO

He couldn't have been fully covered. The dash cam from an early responding officier showed blowing snow with many parked cars almost completely uncovered. The snow didn't start really accumulating until a little after John's body was found.

 

[Tortoise]

Did you watch the first trial?

The glass found at the scene had no connection to the glass John left the bar with. Probably old glass from some other event that happened near the road. Fairview is a busy road.

The taillight is of course a much longer story. One we're going to hear lots about.

Karen's admitted since then that John took her vodka soda glass with him too when he got out of the car. The cw didn't know that in trial 1, Attorney Brennan said so in a pre-trial hearing.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Karen's admitted since then that John took her vodka soda glass with him too when he got out of the car. The cw didn't know that in trial 1, Attorney Brennan said so in a pre-trial hearing.

And if you watched the first trial you'd know the glass found had
no connection to either bar.

 

[rescuemom]

I asked him those questions the night of Jan, 29th. ‘Like David what if, I don't know, what if I ran his foot over, or, or, what if I clipped him in the knee and he passed out and or went to care for himself and he threw up or passed out and David said, ‘Yeah then you have some element of culpability.’

WHAT IF she said. She was trying to make sense of the absurd. The absurdity that her boyfiend of 2 years was dead and she had no idea how that could have happened. He was just at a public gathering of brother law enforcement and entered the home of a pillar of local law inforcement and now he's dead. Surely they could not be responsible not inside the house where I saw him enter.............

 

[Moonstrawbs]

Out of interest as I'd like to see where some people are with this...
For those who believe Karen had no involvement in John's death, what do you believe happened? And what evidence supports your theory? TIA.

(I ask this as someone who doesn't believe she was involved/if she was the CW have even began trying to prove it). Jmo.

 

[keek]

The video of her leaving John’s place when she discovered he didn’t come home shows her SUV hitting his as she backed out. It was the back left taillight. His car moved when she hit it.

I saw that video and J's car 'rock a bit as she backed into it. That is factual video at least. IMO

 

[shotgun09]

Brennen tells a story in the form of a testimony in and with his words and maybe gets a question or two in there and sometimes even waits for an answer. He's hardly brilliant and compassionate he wants to win at any cost! IMO.

Brennan is agreeably much more animated and engaged than Lally was. I will give him that. Listening to Lally was like listening to Eeyore.

With the JMC testimony spanning 2.5 days, I was surprised that Brennan did not come back at all to dispute or repair the significant damage done during cross by AJ. He ignored all the lying and previous testimony snaffus brought up. Just..."oh well..." IMO, Brennan had his " this trial is doomed moment yesterday".

 

[rescuemom]

The truth is I suppose, we have no idea what they're thinking. Was watching back some interviews last night with the Juror from the first trial and it seemed that they started off with the idea she probably was guilty because she was on trial and they viewed the information presented by the prosecution as facts. In contrast, they viewed any evidence from the defence as' Distractors.' He spoke about how they thought Proctor's evidence was unreliable and they were actually laughing at him at times but it didn't really matter. In the public discourse at the time it was all about the conspiracy and Jen Mc Cabe and the Alberts but he said the jury thought they were all fine. They were not giving any importance to what the public thought were big talking points at the time.
They kept going back to the simple explanation of she was drunk, she drove there and left him off and he was dead in the same place when she returned.
The concept of reasonable doubt and the onus being on the prosecution to prove the case didn't seem to get much focus either, they seemed to subconsiously think the onus should be on the defence to prove she didn't. LYK said this is very common with juries.

If that was from the EMT with the bow tie, eh not so much. Wonder why he is the only one speaking or is he ????

 

[Tortoise]

The video of her leaving John’s place when she discovered he didn’t come home shows her SUV hitting his as she backed out. It was the back left taillight. His car moved when she hit it.

Dr Wolfe, of ARCCA, testified in trial 1 during cross-examination that that contact would not have caused that damage.

Timestamp 3.10.40