MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #27 Retrial

[Wishbone]

I was talking about KR's texts to JO, not BH.

I was replying to your post that was removed.

 

[LittleSeaTree]

I just re-read your link of Proctor's texts. He made these comments just HOURS after John's death. How was he able to know all about Karen's health problems, etc. at that early time in his investigation? He didn't know her at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but someone must've filled him in on that information mighty soon after the events at 34 Fairview. Seems as if she was the subject of lots of talk that morning, instead of any legitimate discussion of the events leading up to John's death...things that make me go hmmm.

Great points!

 

[Forest_Wood]

I think it's unfair to show texts of conversations without bot sides of that conversation. Everything is out of context MO

Just have a look at the video I attached if you want to read through all of the texts for context. It's very simple for you to do that since I also included timestamps. The point of my post is to show you that John clearly was planning to continue a relationship with Karen based on HIS texts. You stated erroneously in your since deleted post that he wanted to break up. Nothing could be further from the truth based on his own words that day.
MOO
ETA: Here is that video. I'm sorry I forgot to include it in my post.

 

[Tortoise]

They said they saw the SUV at the cross roads. And when they pulled behind Karen....saw NO John. So I think John was in the house. I trust the timestamps of CW less.

I would say forensic data is more reliable than eye witnesses, who are notoriously unreliable, and in this case were admittedly the worse for wear with drink, and had no reason to be studying the Lexus, while their attention was also focused on RN's sister. JMO

Ryan Nagel's testimony

1.12.32

“after you stopped at the foot of the driveway did you keep your attention on that SUV?”

“not really no, I was more concerned about my sister”

“so you weren’t studying it?”

“no.”

Heather Maxon's testimony

1.49.33

“While you were parked near the driveway you weren’t thinking that you had to watch the SUV every second in case you were later asked to describe what was going on with that vehicle, correct?”

“correct”

 

[Wishbone]

I would say forensic data is more reliable than eye witnesses, who are notoriously unreliable, and in this case were admittedly the worse for wear with drink, and had no reason to be studying the Lexus, while their attention was also focused on RN's sister. JMO

Ryan Nagel's testimony

1.12.32

“after you stopped at the foot of the driveway did you keep your attention on that SUV?”

“not really no, I was more concerned about my sister”

“so you weren’t studying it?”

“no.”

Heather Maxon's testimony

1.49.33

“While you were parked near the driveway you weren’t thinking that you had to watch the SUV every second in case you were later asked to describe what was going on with that vehicle, correct?”

“correct”

The screen shot of the time stamped text message seems reliable. JMOO

 

[Tortoise]

JM secured a screen shot from JN of the text RN sent when he said "here" timestamped 12:23 a.m.

Defense presses Jennifer McCabe on her testimony during Day 7 of Karen Read retrial. Here’s how Wednesday unfolded. - The Boston Globe

McCabe was questioned about her recollection of the hours leading up to the death of Read’s boyfriend John O’Keefe and the moment his body was found lying in the snow.

www.bostonglobe.com

A screenshot of a text (not shown in court) doesn't and can't confirm if he sent it ahead of time, on approach to the house.

 

[Warwick7]

A screenshot of a text (not shown in court) doesn't and can't confirm if he sent it ahead of time, on approach to the house.

His testimony at trial was: when he pulled up he texted his sister "here."

 

[Forest_Wood]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Some people are quick to say John wanted to break up. But according to his texts to Karen, he was not considering breaking up with her.
These were the progression of most of John's texts to Karen on Jan 28 2022. For 7 straight hours, he told her he wanted to see her. He wanted her to stay over with him in Canton until at least Monday. He was planning to see her the following week to fix her hot water heater. He never told her he wanted to end their relationship, even after she asked him several times. He just wanted the arguing to miraculously stop, even though it seemed he started the arguments mostly. John was a master at giving Karen mixed messages.

At 1:47:38 (4:50 time on video) What time are you coming here?
At 2:05:30 (4:58) Emoji sign
At 2:32:28 (9:32) Sick of always arguing and fighting. It's been weekly for several months now. So yeh I'm not as quick to jump back into being lovey lovey as you apparently.
At 2:34:03 (10:35) Not into fighting all the time, correct.
At 4:47:16 (18:28) What's your plan?
At 4:50:26 (18:42) So still home?
At 5:02:23 (19:15) So are you staying home or coming here?
At 5:19:42 (22:35) Gonna send Patrick to Colin's tonight. They're picking him up around 7. Mike may hang too when he brings Mad over. So why don't you just come over.
At 5:20:56 (23:12)I just got sober an hour ago.
At 6:33:44 (26:13) Told you to come over but you insisted on meeting me out somewhere.
At 7:06:13 (28:32) We're heading out shortly. What's your plan Karen?
At 7:07:04 (28:45) (To her question if he still wanted her to join him). Yes. Wasn't sure if you were meeting the Currans.
At 7:22:28 (29:42) Text me when you leave...
At 7:25 (30:04) You trying to piss me off?
At 7:26:24 (30:10) Hope your plumber buddy that you texted is hot.
At 7:28:00 (32:00) Just turn it back to where it was and get over here.
At 7:43:10 (33:20) We're taking Mike's car so I'm relying on you for a ride home if he leaves.
At 7:44:36 (34:08) You have a plumber coming over at 8:00 knowing me and Papa could have handled it. Good luck.
At 7:55:00 (34:49) If you need a new water heater, don't let him do it.
At 8:28:30 (37:08) Tell him to leave it, I'll take care of it Sunday or Monday.
At 8:32:00 (38:52) Figured you'd be in Canton til Monday.

I forgot to add the video with all those timestamps.

 

[ShadyLady]

I would say forensic data is more reliable than eye witnesses, who are notoriously unreliable, and in this case were admittedly the worse for wear with drink, and had no reason to be studying the Lexus, while their attention was also focused on RN's sister. JMO

Ryan Nagel's testimony

1.12.32

“after you stopped at the foot of the driveway did you keep your attention on that SUV?”

“not really no, I was more concerned about my sister”

“so you weren’t studying it?”

“no.”

Heather Maxon's testimony

1.49.33

“While you were parked near the driveway you weren’t thinking that you had to watch the SUV every second in case you were later asked to describe what was going on with that vehicle, correct?”

“correct”

This case has shown me how unreliable timestamps are, too many opinions.

 

[Tortoise]

This case has shown me how unreliable timestamps are, too many opinions.

Does that include a timestamp on a screenshot not shown in evidence?

 

[Warwick7]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

That said, let it be known that when I started watching this case I was thinking she was guilty. I back the blue most of the time. I don't believe in conspiracy theories without a lot of proof. So I am watched this case with strong skepticism, but have come to realize that there is a GREAT deal of proof of this conspiracy, however, the most important thing is that there is enough reasonable doubt in this case to choke a horse!

JMO

What a honest and real feelings. Great post!

 

[ShadyLady]

Does that include a timestamp on a screenshot not shown in evidence?

At his point yes.
Wounds on John have me convinced he got beat up in that house.

 

[Angelwatch]

I would say forensic data is more reliable than eye witnesses, who are notoriously unreliable, and in this case were admittedly the worse for wear with drink, and had no reason to be studying the Lexus, while their attention was also focused on RN's sister. JMO

Ryan Nagel's testimony

1.12.32

“after you stopped at the foot of the driveway did you keep your attention on that SUV?”

“not really no, I was more concerned about my sister”

“so you weren’t studying it?”

“no.”

Heather Maxon's testimony

1.49.33

“While you were parked near the driveway you weren’t thinking that you had to watch the SUV every second in case you were later asked to describe what was going on with that vehicle, correct?”

“correct”

I wouldn’t say the time presented as forensic data by the CW is reliable, especially now with their whole “clock drift” theory. Time isn’t the time in Canton, apparently. Who’s to say the phone from Nagel didn’t also experience “clock drift?”

 

[tara83]

At his point yes.
Wounds on John have me convinced he got beat up in that house.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how a 6000 pound SUV hits a man and he only has head injuries and strange markings on one arm that don't fit with it. Even the CW's own witness the medical examiner doesn't believe it but some still believe no reasonable doubt.

 

[mzmarymac]

Question: Does anyone know why we don't see details from Karen's phone (or Apple Watch if she had one on?) but we see every single detail of JOKs and JMs movements? I'm just curious because wouldn't be able to definitely find out KRs location data while JOKs phone was registering footsteps, etc...?

 

[shotgun09]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how a 6000 pound SUV hits a man and he only has head injuries and strange markings on one arm that don't fit with it. Even the CW's own witness the medical examiner doesn't believe it but some still believe no reasonable doubt.

Exactly !
It was the visual of JOK's right arm that convinced me in T1 that his injuries did not equal an MVA. Unless KR's Lexus was a secret Transformer with teeth and claws in it. Goodness

 

[keek]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how a 6000 pound SUV hits a man and he only has head injuries and strange markings on one arm that don't fit with it. Even the CW's own witness the medical examiner doesn't believe it but some still believe no reasonable doubt.

It was a good reminder the other day for some to see JOK's shirt with the tiny holes on his arm that matched up with the gouge marks from claws and teeth about the elbow area. Terribly poor evidence care and being particular of a part of JOK's shirt to send LONG after to be tested. It was never deemed necessary by p to be sent anyway. He made it clear upon JMc's statement that KR hit JOK and left him to die. He went on that. He went soley on that and spread the word and made it happen to where it is today.. Shocking to p and the others that KR is no doormat to say the very least. He is gone, hoping for a spectacular game of dominos for the party people to come somehow. IMO

 

[missy1974]

I'm not aware of your source for RN's text time, but Waze location data and speed of travel of John's phone being consistent with being in a car, per Cellebrite expert Ian Whiffin, indicates it was not yet outside 34 Fairview at 12.23am.

approx 3.13.00

It's in Jen McCabes testimony. She requested a screenshot of the message so she could add it to her "timeline". Jackson used it in 2 ways, one... to show she was colluding with other witnesses in making her "timeline", two... to show what time Julie Nagel, her brother Ryan Nagel, his buddy and his gf saw her parked in front of them and again as they were passing her as they drove away.

I would have to go back and look at Whiffin's testimony, but if they got there at 12:23am, how is it that WAZE was still showing them as driving, unless of course... the technology is flawed. JMO


starting around 4:09 of this video.

 

[jepop]

Exactly !
It was the visual of JOK's right arm that convinced me in T1 that his injuries did not equal an MVA. Unless KR's Lexus was a secret Transformer with teeth and claws in it. Goodness

It's the same elephant in the room as last trial. AJ's closing theme last year of 'look the other way' stands the test of time; when it comes to those wounds, the cw, the prosecutors and imo all who assume KR's guilt, continue to look the other way. Much else presented by brennan ultimately boils down to a convoluted distraction from this elephant. IMOO

 

[ShadyLady]

It's the same elephant in the room as last trial. AJ's closing theme last year of 'look the other way' stands the test of time; when it comes to those wounds, the cw, the prosecutors and imo all who assume KR's guilt, continue to look the other way. Much else presented by brennan ultimately boils down to a convoluted distraction from this elephant. IMOO

All the timestamps seem like a red herring to me at this point. And OMG....the woman with the scarf, haha, I forgot her name. I think she should retire, or find another source of work. Not one bit credible. IMO