MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #29 Retrial

[HarmonyE.]

The CW needs the time to regroup.

Aperture's Welcher most especially, I'd imagine.

And I think that's basically it for them.

 

[rescuemom]

I’ve heard the Commonwealth was planning to rest their case soon (at least as of last week, who knows what the more recent testimony changes).

What surprises me is that only one witness has testified (or will testify) in trial 1 that “John never went inside the house”, and that witness is Jennifer McCabe.This is the same Jennifer McCabe who was caught lying to the FBI about her identity, her phone calls, and whether she stopped at 34 Fairview on her way to Mike Lank’s. And the jury heard about those lies, even if to ‘another agency’, not the FBI.

Why hasn’t the prosecution called others from inside the house that night to corroborate this claim? If it were solid, you’d expect multiple confirmations. Is Hank avoiding cross-examination because of what might be exposed? MOO

He's leaving well enough alone. In his opening he focused and tried to be convincing that the case is about 3 things. I hit him x3 was one thing . Science or facts related to science was the second and I can't remember the third but may not matter because he has failed on the first 2. He was mighty proud of those 3 things.

 

[geevee]

The CW needs the time to regroup.

Yes, I think Alessi's 4 day request has been transferred to the CW, those that have give to those who need. lol

 

[thebedbug]

Her feelings are not fact. They are simply feelings.

one can nitpick witness testimony. one can nitpick police procedure. one can imagine things happened for which there is no evidence. but...

i think pretty much anyone can see that Karen Read was lying - in big unforgettable ways - and knows she hit JO. if she had said she saw him go into the house and i saw him on the porch at the door - I'd say that's a reasonable discrepancy. i saw JO go into the house and i might've hit him are completely incongruent memories.

he wasn't ambushed by a gang of conspirators in the basement... attacked by a dog... then dragged out into the snow to die, instantly, or kept in the basement for hours... while dozens of people kept silent or went along with the charade... with, again, absolutely nothing to actually indicate that happened.

it's all a bunch of nonsense.

 

[lohrtabitha]

DBM

 

[lohrtabitha]

one can nitpick witness testimony. one can nitpick police procedure. one can imagine things happened for which there is no evidence. but...

i think pretty much anyone can see that Karen Read was lying - in big unforgettable ways - and knows she hit JO. if she had said she saw him go into the house and i saw him on the porch at the door - I'd say that's a reasonable discrepancy. i saw JO go into the house and i might've hit him are completely incongruent memories.

he wasn't ambushed by a gang of conspirators in the basement... attacked by a dog... then dragged out into the snow to die, instantly, or kept in the basement for hours... while dozens of people kept silent or went along with the charade... with, again, absolutely nothing to actually indicate that happened.

it's all a bunch of nonsense.

I disagree with you. Psychiatrists have stated that our feelings and emotions are not fact. Just like our dreams are not facts. I posted the link for this many threads back. If you would like to read the report let me know and I will send it to you.

 

[keek]

The CW needs the time to regroup.

That too! IMO

 

[PamCake]

I've read so much, and listened to so much testimony regarding this case and have tried to imagine a scenario which explains so many of the mysteries surrounding it. I think I've come up with a framework to demonstrate some of the unknowns. The house at 34F had an old-fashioned bulkhead door leading into the basement, such as that pictured here (unrelated stock photo). The bulkhead at 34F is in the back yard, about 10' to the right of the front gate in the fence surrounding the property. I read or heard somewhere (sorry, can't find exactly where) that BA sometimes brought his dog outside via this exit/entry point when guests were in his home, as she was not amenable to strangers. These doors are extremely heavy and dense, and when they are opened, they stand up and often snap into the open position, making them stable (see example). I believe that, during the party, BA, BH, and CA might've gone outside together when Chloe was taken for a "potty break", maybe having a smoke break themselves. JOK, after exiting the car, heard the voices of the 3 men and headed into the back yard instead of the house. John, coming in through the gate, likely startled the dog, causing her to leap on him and attack. This attack could've caused the cut over his eye, as well as the abrasions on his arm. In the ensuing struggle with Chloe, John might've fallen or was pushed backwards into that heavy bulkhead door, causing the severe head wound. I imagine, in the chaos that followed, the men dragging a bloody and gravely wounded John into the cellar through that bulkhead door, spilling blood all down the short stairway and onto the cement there, and propping him up against the wall hoping to revive him. While in this position, JOK vomits from the trauma onto his jeans and underwear, which may have gotten stained and pulled down a bit during the dragging. They leave him there bleeding down the back of his clothing, while they discuss what they're going to do. During this occurrence, which lasted mere minutes, John probably dropped his phone outside in the snow, with none of the people missing it for a good amount of time. Eventually the phone would be called and called by JMc in order to locate it. I imagine the men finally bringing him outside using the Ford Edge to be found by the road as if he'd been hit by a plow, and placing the phone under him. NOBODY imagined Karen Read showing up at the crack of dawn and finding him…

 

[justwannahelp]

The tail light is made of plasticine. It’s not glass. It’s basically reinforced plastic.

Now AJ is talking about the glass material. Ms. Hanley noted nothing consistent with blood, skin or other biological materials on the glass shards, even though she inspected them under a microscope. Ms Hanley says she would have noted any ‘apparent’ blood, skin, etc.

Now discussing Ms. Hanleys comparisons. Comparing the glass found in John’s hand (which they’re referring to as a ‘cup’ for clarity purposes, but is item 3-2), the five glass items on the bumper (item 3-3), and the nine glass shards/items collected from 34 Fairview by Yuri Buhkenik, item 7-12. Brennan fought hard to object to Buhkeniks name being included on record. That bag is associated with the nine pieces found at 34 Fairview. And there’s 7-12, a single piece of glass found at Fairview.

And Proctor found the single piece of glass, 7-14.

So just so we’re clear:
3-2 is the cup.
3-3 is the bumper glass.
7-12 is the Buhkenik glass.
7-14 is the Proctor glass.

Talking about bumper glass 3-3(A) - one of the five pieces found on the bumper. Hanley testified in trial 1 and now that 3-3(A) does not match the cup (3-2) or the Buhkenik glass (7-12) OR the Proctor glass (7-14). Neither did item B. Item E was consistent with 7-14, the Proctor glass.

Now discussing the glass Buhkenik collected at Fairview. A-F, I, K and L. A, B, C, D, F and K all matched the 3-2 cup. Items I and L did not match the 3-2 cup.

Finally the 7-14 - the single piece of glass Prcotr recovered. Hanley testifies it did not match the 3-2 cup OR the 7-12 shards that Buhkenik collected.

Can you elaborate on the glass Buhkenik collected at Fairview? Where at Fairview was this glass found? Just curious. I admit, I’ve ignored all glass discussion because time drift discussion required all my brain power

 

[Soulmagent]

I was taken aback when the good Dr Wolf said a person could stick their finger through a brain!

I know I was too!
Then I got to thinking about the 4 brain surgeries he had to do this morning and wondering if any of his patients were watching when he said that.
I liked the guy, his no BS style of testimony was nice.

 

[rescuemom]

I finally got to watch this video.
Ouch!!!

So who is the owner of that truck?? BH removing a bag from truck to his personal car?? Then who owns the Jeep with the plow??

 

[missy1974]

Seems to me they are still the elephant in the room for the prosecution and those who consider KR guilty! It began with Proctor but I'm also annoyed with the ME who never followed up with any independent enquiry. But I get it I guess; at the time it appears she was never informed that a german shepherd lived at the property where John died. Moo

There is a herd of elephants in the room lol

I can see believing he was hit by her car with the basic information, but the more I learn, the more I can't make it make sense.

If someone believes he was hit by her car, how in the world did he get blood and vomit on his shirt and bottom of his pants?

Why didn't LE find signs of vomit (possibly frozen vomit even) anywhere near his body after doing the handy dandy leaf blower trick? He couldn't have moved far from where he was found.

I know I have read about vomit on boxers, but I can't find that in testimony, and can't seem to verify that (I also have considered that it could have been transfered after he was found by EMTs/ER staff while they were doing their thing, but JMO)

 

[rescuemom]

I can almost hear Matt now:

You. Don't. Lie. To. The FBI. Call them back right now.

Yeah, but they all did anyway.

Didn't Martha Stewart try that???

 

[jepop]

There is a herd of elephants in the room lol

I can see believing he was hit by her car with the basic information, but the more I learn, the more I can't make it make sense.

If someone believes he was hit by her car, how in the world did he get blood and vomit on his shirt and bottom of his pants?

Why didn't LE find signs of vomit (possibly frozen vomit even) anywhere near his body after doing the handy dandy leaf blower trick? He couldn't have moved far from where he was found.

I know I have read about vomit on boxers, but I can't find that in testimony, and can't seem to verify that (I also have considered that it could have been transfered after he was found by EMTs/ER staff while they were doing their thing, but JMO)

All that for sure, but the main thing for me is that his injuries and the damage to the Lexus just do not match. For that reason I definately cannot see that he was ever hit by KR's Lexus, or any other vehicle for that matter. Jmo

 

[Love Never Fails]

I've read so much, and listened to so much testimony regarding this case and have tried to imagine a scenario which explains so many of the mysteries surrounding it. I think I've come up with a framework to demonstrate some of the unknowns. The house at 34F had an old-fashioned bulkhead door leading into the basement, such as that pictured here (unrelated stock photo). The bulkhead at 34F is in the back yard, about 10' to the right of the front gate in the fence surrounding the property. I read or heard somewhere (sorry, can't find exactly where) that BA sometimes brought his dog outside via this exit/entry point when guests were in his home, as she was not amenable to strangers. These doors are extremely heavy and dense, and when they are opened, they stand up and often snap into the open position, making them stable (see example). I believe that, during the party, BA, BH, and CA might've gone outside together when Chloe was taken for a "potty break", maybe having a smoke break themselves. JOK, after exiting the car, heard the voices of the 3 men and headed into the back yard instead of the house. John, coming in through the gate, likely startled the dog, causing her to leap on him and attack. This attack could've caused the cut over his eye, as well as the abrasions on his arm. In the ensuing struggle with Chloe, John might've fallen or was pushed backwards into that heavy bulkhead door, causing the severe head wound. I imagine, in the chaos that followed, the men dragging a bloody and gravely wounded John into the cellar through that bulkhead door, spilling blood all down the short stairway and onto the cement there, and propping him up against the wall hoping to revive him. While in this position, JOK vomits from the trauma onto his jeans and underwear, which may have gotten stained and pulled down a bit during the dragging. They leave him there bleeding down the back of his clothing, while they discuss what they're going to do. During this occurrence, which lasted mere minutes, John probably dropped his phone outside in the snow, with none of the people missing it for a good amount of time. Eventually the phone would be called and called by JMc in order to locate it. I imagine the men finally bringing him outside using the Ford Edge to be found by the road as if he'd been hit by a plow, and placing the phone under him. NOBODY imagined Karen Read showing up at the crack of dawn and finding him…

Why do you imagine one of those three would not call an ambulance for John?

 

[Angelwatch]

I was taken aback when the good Dr Wolf said a person could stick their finger through a brain!

It’s the consistency of warm butter. I’ve also heard jello consistency in my neuro classes. It’s pretty squishy.

 

[jepop]

So who is the owner of that truck?? BH removing a bag from truck to his personal car?? Then who owns the Jeep with the plow??

He owns the jeep with the plow. He arrived at CPD in that vehicle and testified last time that this was the vehicle he drove from 34 F to the CPD arriving at around 1.26am. Not sure if the black flat bed is also his. As he took the bag and broom(,?) out of it and seems to get something from the jeep before he unlocks it, maybe keys, it's possible the black truck is his too. Hope the defense call him to get testimony on this footage.

 

[HarmonyE.]

He owns the jeep with the plow. He arrived at CPD in that vehicle and testified last time that this was the vehicle he drove from 34 F to the CPD arriving at around 1.26am. Not sure if the black flat bed is also his. As he took the bag and broom(,?) out of it and seems to get something from the jeep before he unlocks it, maybe keys, it's possible the black truck is his too. Hope the defense call him to get testimony on this footage.

Oh, I think the defense is going to have lots of questions for Mr. Higgins.

 

[rescuemom]

As a non rhotic English speaker, it sounds perfectly fine.

Regional accents have always been interesting to me as to how they came about. A historical settling of the colonists and the mix of such as this country's settlers moved throughout....'sidebah' instead of sidebar and 'lawr' instead of law, a twist of letters. Also interesting to me as someone not from Massachusetts is the shortcut of 'ave' instead of avenue or 'Mass' instead of Massachusetts, just a thought...

 

[keek]

Didn't Martha Stewart try that???

Regional accents have always been interesting to me as to how they came about. A historical settling of the colonists and the mix of such as this country's settlers moved throughout....'sidebah' instead of sidebar and 'lawr' instead of law, a twist of letters. Also interesting to me as someone not from Massachusetts is the shortcut of 'ave' instead of avenue or 'Mass' instead of Massachusetts, just a thought...

We actually HAVE a Mass Ave. NEVER when I think of it have heard in 'all my day's, Massachusetts Avenue.