MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #29 Retrial

[rescuemom]

One of them said that. The other two gave two different dates of actually receiving that degree.
Which he didn't.
Because there is no such degree.
He didn't even receive his General Studies degree.
He submitted those to two different courts, that we know of, and was kicked off of the Federal case because he was caught.
There's a reason why his employer has been doing major damage control since yesterday morning on their website.
He's a fraud.
End of story, the end, finis, amen.
IMO.

He submitted those to two different courts, that we know of, and was kicked off of the Federal case because he was caught.

took a while for Aperture to catch on, did it??

 

[justwannahelp]

Pretty obvious JO never made it into the house. KR even said she never saw him go in the house...well that is until she was arrested, then her story changed. Dr. Wolf's testimony today backed that up, IMO. JO had head/brain injuries NOT caused by a ridged object nor a hit with something hard like a baseball bat etc...to the head from a heavy object. JO's injury had ALL the earmarks of a classic falling backwards with some gravitational velocity and hitting the back of his head on a flat hard surface...a blunt injury, not at all what the defense has theorized, MO.

people fall backwards in fights and split their heads open.

21-year-old arrested in Tigerland death

www.wbrz.com

I believe there was a fight in that house that night or outside of the house in the back. I believe John was punched in the face and fell backwards and hit his head on something on the way down. I believe the dog attacked him during words being yelled/ before anything got physical or while punches were being thrown, or after he fell even. I’m absolutely disgusted they neglected to search the property for evidence. I believe it wasn’t neglect, however. They didn’t search the property on purpose because evidence of the fight was there. (Blood and likely vomit as well as the ground or object he fell on.)
The people in the home panicked when he likely began to shake a bit and vomit whilst blood pouring out from his skull. Eventually blood came from his mouth too. The person or persons who hit him and caused the fall knew they could have faced manslaughter or possibly second degree murder so they put him outside hoping to blame a snowplow. They SHOULD have called 911
JM knew he was still alive for a long while so she googled how long to die in the cold. She was likely freaking out knowing he was suffering. I don’t think she googled this in a killer type of way like yeh i want him dead! I think she was feeling guilty about all of it and wanted his suffering to end.

Of course this is my THEORY based on the evidence presented so far as well as LACK of evidence.

I should add that there’s not enough evidence to prove my theory beyond a reasonable doubt just like there’s not enough evidence to prove Karen ran over him beyond a reasonable doubt. I don’t think either can be proved.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I think there was a drunken fight that erupted between JO and BH as a continuation of what had just started verbally at the Waterfall (see video).

But I think someone else tried to "break it up" by hitting John in the back of the head with a heavy object, effectively ending his life as the injury was not something he could recover from.

And Chloe/Cora and whatever her third name was, got into the fray as all this was happening, causing those lacerations up and down John's arm.

MOO

 

[lohrtabitha]

I've read so much, and listened to so much testimony regarding this case and have tried to imagine a scenario which explains so many of the mysteries surrounding it. I think I've come up with a framework to demonstrate some of the unknowns. The house at 34F had an old-fashioned bulkhead door leading into the basement, such as that pictured here (unrelated stock photo). The bulkhead at 34F is in the back yard, about 10' to the right of the front gate in the fence surrounding the property. I read or heard somewhere (sorry, can't find exactly where) that BA sometimes brought his dog outside via this exit/entry point when guests were in his home, as she was not amenable to strangers. These doors are extremely heavy and dense, and when they are opened, they stand up and often snap into the open position, making them stable (see example). I believe that, during the party, BA, BH, and CA might've gone outside together when Chloe was taken for a "potty break", maybe having a smoke break themselves. JOK, after exiting the car, heard the voices of the 3 men and headed into the back yard instead of the house. John, coming in through the gate, likely startled the dog, causing her to leap on him and attack. This attack could've caused the cut over his eye, as well as the abrasions on his arm. In the ensuing struggle with Chloe, John might've fallen or was pushed backwards into that heavy bulkhead door, causing the severe head wound. I imagine, in the chaos that followed, the men dragging a bloody and gravely wounded John into the cellar through that bulkhead door, spilling blood all down the short stairway and onto the cement there, and propping him up against the wall hoping to revive him. While in this position, JOK vomits from the trauma onto his jeans and underwear, which may have gotten stained and pulled down a bit during the dragging. They leave him there bleeding down the back of his clothing, while they discuss what they're going to do. During this occurrence, which lasted mere minutes, John probably dropped his phone outside in the snow, with none of the people missing it for a good amount of time. Eventually the phone would be called and called by JMc in order to locate it. I imagine the men finally bringing him outside using the Ford Edge to be found by the road as if he'd been hit by a plow, and placing the phone under him. NOBODY imagined Karen Read showing up at the crack of dawn and finding him…

This definitely could have happened. Or, if they beat him up in the basement and he fell on a weight, I do believe they would have taken him out this way and not the front door. That long drag to the front of the house would have caused the grass stains on his pants . Probably knocked his shoe off too. His head maybe was bleeding from the fall, and then got onto whoever was dragging him clothing. Maybe the clothing was in the duffle bag that we saw BH with at the police station? Just my thoughts....

 

[rescuemom]

I have never heard of this Attorney - but in any event, he doesn't to have very balanced coverage IMO. Here he essentially accuses the Judge of corruption. MOO

View attachment 587808

I've watched him a few times. A retired atty who has probably seen it all. A podcaster now and like many are not balanced. He is all about calling out corruption or suspicion of corruption. Judges are just attys who have been promoted and some then think they are on a level with God.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think there was a drunken fight that erupted between JO and BH as a continuation of what had just started verbally at the Waterfall (see video).

But I think someone else tried to "break it up" by hitting John in the back of the head with a heavy object, effectively ending his life as the injury was not something he could recover from.

And Chloe/Cora and whatever her third name was, got into the fray as all this was happening, causing those lacerations up and down John's arm.

MOO

I really think the dog could have done this all by herself.

We should watch the waterfall video again. BH does have a certain bounce and maybe his playful interaction early in the video ,will show us something we didnt see before and maybe we should look at his body stances in relation to Johns injuries?
Nothing about the Lexus body structure is make matches.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I really think the dog could have done this all by herself.

We should watch the waterfall video again. BH does have a certain bounce and maybe his playful interaction early in the video ,will show us something we didnt see before and maybe we should look at his body stances in relation to Johns injuries?
Nothing about the Lexus body structure is make matches.

Disagree, if only because if the dog killed John all on her own, there's no need to cover it up. Wouldn't be a "murder". A civil liability case only.

I don't see BH being playful at all in the end with John. Chris Albert actually physically restrains him. John's smirking/laughing at Higgins, but Higgins looks very serious.

 

[justwannahelp]

i think pretty much anyone can see that Karen Read was lying - in big unforgettable ways - and knows she hit JO. if she had said she saw him go into the house and i saw him on the porch at the door - I'd say that's a reasonable discrepancy. i saw JO go into the house and i might've hit him are completely incongruent memories.

if I had been drinking and found my husband or loved one lying dead in the front lawn on the side of the road where i left several hours before but couldn’t make sense of why he wasn’t coming out of the house or answering his phone, I’d automatically be like oh my gosh did i hit him when i left? She couldn’t make sense of his absence and silence then sees him on the side of the road. Brains try to mane sense of things. she loved him and was trying to make sense his absence and silence with the only information she had at the time. She did not know the men in the home well. Her mind wouldn’t automatically think they accidentally killed him in the house or behind the house and are now trying to frame a snow plow rather than face manslaughter. & after hitting John’s car on her way out, it’s easier to think why her mind went there. She had just hit something.
When a loved one is dead or hurt, you immediately try to figure out how with whatever information you have at the time — even if it’s wondering if you accidentally did something while drunk. It’s human nature. All you care about is trying to make sense with the info you CURRENTLY have.

 

[rescuemom]

Great cross by Alessi. Dr Wolf wasn’t the ME, he didn’t examine the body or the brain. He had only secondhand knowledge of the case, and basically only stated what we already knew, that John died from blunt force injury to his head. Crucially, he made no assertion of a car causing the impact, nor can he say that Karen ‘sideswiped’ him to cause the impact. MOO.

Yep another expert who is piggybacking on someone else's report who probly did the same on someone else's report. It should surprise no trial watchers that if the expert on the stand did not do the work/research themselves, they are just a hack hired to say what they are supposed to say. Not in just this trial, it happens all the time. It is an insult to the victim, the one on trial and the jury.

 

[justwannahelp]

My thoughts are that there are a lot of other hard things to fall backwards on besides cold ground. Would concrete basements be hard? They may also be cold. IIRC There was no dirt or grass found in JOK’s head injuries.

Do they have a concrete patio in the back of the house?

 

[rescuemom]

Timestamp 6:09

what I thought could have happened was
that did I incapacitate him unwittingly
somehow and then in his drunkenness
passed out — Karen Read

When she found him, the idea that his friends, the occupants of the house, fellow LE could have attacked and beaten him and left him, even possibly drug and placed him in freezing weather outside on the ground didn't enter her mind.

 

[rescuemom]

I was taken aback when he said the day before he arrived in Massachusetts he did 2 brain surgeries and was doing 4 more the day after his court appearance.
No fatigue?
imo

Yes, he seemed very proud of himself. A perfect expert witness. Probly couldn't find someone like him in or around Boston.

 

[HarmonyE.]

When she found him, the idea that his friends, the occupants of the house, fellow LE could have attacked and beaten him and left him, even possibly drug and placed him in freezing weather outside on the ground didn't enter her mind.

Exactly. And I would asked myself the same thing. What could have happened? Did he run back out as I was leaving? Did I hit him and not know it?

The last thing I'd would think at that moment was he was murdered in the house and left outside to make it look like a hit and run driver struck him.

 

[SteveS]

It slipped under the radar a bit, enough so that those who want KR convicted don't admit it (or recognize it), but the testimony of Whiffin the cw's phone expert gave clear phone evidence of JOK being IN THE HOUSE, and at the very time in question.

He testified the location data showed JOK headed generally in the direction of the house, followed by a 12 minute period (12:24-12:36) when there in NO LOCATION DATA. He further explained what causes no location data, and the very first thing on the list was ~*ahem*~ being INSIDE A BUILDING. Indeed.

That's the cw's expert's testimony as to what the evidence says.

Witness testimony (from MULTIPLE eyewitnesses) says the same thing, that JOK is not able to be seen outside at about the same 12:23-12:24, even though KR is seen outside, but alone in the car.

Combined with the ARCCA investigation and conclusions, that JOK could not have been hit by a vehicle to cause those injuries, it's clear that whatever happened to him must have occurred inside that house. As for the details of what that was, the failure to investigate inside the house has made that impossible to know. (But the subsequent actions and oft-shifting stories and various lies being told by those who were inside makes it clear something bad must have happened.)

Oh, and btw, at 12:36 when there is phone location data showing again, it showed location that was possible to still be in the house somewhere (Whiffin's testimony said that it was equally likely to have been at ANY SPECIFIC PLACE(s) within a broad circle that included both most of the house and the yard). As for whether JOK actually had control of that phone at that point, as well as earlier during the entire 12-minute interlude, no one can say.

The def has no real reason to focus on these points yet, but I suspect that in time they will be made crystal clear, and emphasized, for the benefit of the jury. Perhaps they will do that via one of their experts. But the evidence is already there.

 

[justwannahelp]

All this yelling,screaming and running around and no one inside heard a thing. We aren't talking about a mansion here but a normal middle class home. I find that very interesting.

And wouldn’t there have been SIRENS? People in my neighborhood walk into their front porches to look down the street anytime an ambulance is at someone’s home. (We have quite a few 70-80 year olds in our neighborhood. (The original homeowners.) so we all kind of know deep down why the ambulance is there (an elderly emergency) but people can’t help themselves….
It’s human nature

 

[rescuemom]

I've read so much, and listened to so much testimony regarding this case and have tried to imagine a scenario which explains so many of the mysteries surrounding it. I think I've come up with a framework to demonstrate some of the unknowns. The house at 34F had an old-fashioned bulkhead door leading into the basement, such as that pictured here (unrelated stock photo). The bulkhead at 34F is in the back yard, about 10' to the right of the front gate in the fence surrounding the property. I read or heard somewhere (sorry, can't find exactly where) that BA sometimes brought his dog outside via this exit/entry point when guests were in his home, as she was not amenable to strangers. These doors are extremely heavy and dense, and when they are opened, they stand up and often snap into the open position, making them stable (see example). I believe that, during the party, BA, BH, and CA might've gone outside together when Chloe was taken for a "potty break", maybe having a smoke break themselves. JOK, after exiting the car, heard the voices of the 3 men and headed into the back yard instead of the house. John, coming in through the gate, likely startled the dog, causing her to leap on him and attack. This attack could've caused the cut over his eye, as well as the abrasions on his arm. In the ensuing struggle with Chloe, John might've fallen or was pushed backwards into that heavy bulkhead door, causing the severe head wound. I imagine, in the chaos that followed, the men dragging a bloody and gravely wounded John into the cellar through that bulkhead door, spilling blood all down the short stairway and onto the cement there, and propping him up against the wall hoping to revive him. While in this position, JOK vomits from the trauma onto his jeans and underwear, which may have gotten stained and pulled down a bit during the dragging. They leave him there bleeding down the back of his clothing, while they discuss what they're going to do. During this occurrence, which lasted mere minutes, John probably dropped his phone outside in the snow, with none of the people missing it for a good amount of time. Eventually the phone would be called and called by JMc in order to locate it. I imagine the men finally bringing him outside using the Ford Edge to be found by the road as if he'd been hit by a plow, and placing the phone under him. NOBODY imagined Karen Read showing up at the crack of dawn and finding him…

I disagree. I don't see JOK going around to the back of the house. He was not a frequent guest to the house. Is there a back door? KR was waiting in the car. And more importantly WHY did no one call for any kind of help for JOK??

 

[Leilei]

He submitted those to two different courts, that we know of, and was kicked off of the Federal case because he was caught.

took a while for Aperture to catch on, did it??

Sure did. The Federal trial was in 2022, IIRC.
IMO.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I disagree. I don't see JOK going around to the back of the house. He was not a frequent guest to the house. Is there a back door? KR was waiting in the car. And more importantly WHY did no one call for any kind of help for JOK??

No back door. (real estate photos) And the back yard is completely fenced and gated so naughty Chloe girl couldn't get out and roam around the neighborhood. She was a biter and there are leash laws in the town.

 

[rescuemom]

We actually HAVE a Mass Ave. NEVER when I think of it have heard in 'all my day's, Massachusetts Avenue.

I guess you missed my point and didn't mean to offend anyone in Massachusetts. I wasn't referring to Mass and Ave used in the same sentence. The reference to AVE is any avenue usually referred to then as xxxx AVE and any location as somewhere MASS.

 

[cocomod]

one can nitpick witness testimony. one can nitpick police procedure. one can imagine things happened for which there is no evidence. but...

i think pretty much anyone can see that Karen Read was lying - in big unforgettable ways - and knows she hit JO. if she had said she saw him go into the house and i saw him on the porch at the door - I'd say that's a reasonable discrepancy. i saw JO go into the house and i might've hit him are completely incongruent memories.

he wasn't ambushed by a gang of conspirators in the basement... attacked by a dog... then dragged out into the snow to die, instantly, or kept in the basement for hours... while dozens of people kept silent or went along with the charade... with, again, absolutely nothing to actually indicate that happened.

it's all a bunch of nonsense.

Have you ever been or seen someone black out drunk? They can talk, walk, act "normal", but their brain function is not the same. The next morning, they will NOT remember what exactly happened the night before. Maybe brief flashes of information, but not enough to form a coherent view of their previous night. I have witnessed this, and I believe that KR as well as many more that were present that night could have experienced this phenomenon.

I think there was a drunken fight that erupted between JO and BH as a continuation of what had just started verbally at the Waterfall (see video).

But I think someone else tried to "break it up" by hitting John in the back of the head with a heavy object, effectively ending his life as the injury was not something he could recover from.

And Chloe/Cora and whatever her third name was, got into the fray as all this was happening, causing those lacerations up and down John's arm.

MOO

I keep thinking about the conversation I had with my emergency nurse friend last weekend. She said that the laceration on the head: 1 - isn't consistent with falling on the ground (she was thinking concrete or asphalt) because of the location of the wound and because of the look; 2 - looks to her like he fell into a corner or a sharp object. 3 - the location of the wound is very high on his head. This doesn't jive with falling backwards to the ground.

I did listen to the neurosurgeon. He is a nice guy; but unfortunately, he also came to the case with bias. He is also trying to fit the CW narrative, but didn't lie on the stand which was nice. He did indicate that it would take force to cause the wound, but he tried to indicate it wasn't a weapon as it wasn't indented. Could he have been hit from the front and hit the bulkhead door? Could he have hit another counter or door downstairs?



He was NOT hit by a vehicle. The CW's own witnesses have testified that his injuries were not consistent with a vehicle strike. The timing also shows that KR did not hit him. I think this was a brawl that got out of control and decisions were made, everyone was drunk, noone wanted consequences. A decision to not call the ambulance was quick, but the decision to place him on the lawn likely took hours.