MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

[mrjitty]

It's worth pointing out that the number of objections sustained depends mostly on trial strategy and style.

For instance, if you spend most time on direct, you will have fewer sustained objections than if you do much more aggressive cross.

Conversely Alessi objects far more on direct than I am used to, leading to sustained objections which are technically correct but mostly pointless. (e.g. leading the witness is often overlooked for efficiency purposes).

In any event, given AJ conducted an extremely aggressive cross of Yuri for many hours, it isn't surprising he would run up a lot of sustained objections. Ditto the marathon cross of Burgess by Alessi. Brennan hasn't conducted anything like that.

It's also stylistic. AJ asks many questions which he knows are wildly out of bounds for the drama and effect. Brennan also chose to do this versus Dr Wolfe but did not do so much versus Russell.

All in all, the idea it shows the Judge is biased is not demonstrated IMO.

MOO.

 

[tara83]

It's worth pointing out that the number of objections sustained depends mostly on trial strategy and style.

For instance, if you spend most time on direct, you will have fewer sustained objections than if you do much more aggressive cross.

Conversely Alessi objects far more on direct than I am used to, leading to sustained objections which are technically correct but mostly pointless. (e.g. leading the witness is often overlooked for efficiency purposes).

In any event, given AJ conducted an extremely aggressive cross of Yuri for many hours, it isn't surprising he would run up a lot of sustained objections. Ditto the marathon cross of Burgess by Alessi. Brennan hasn't conducted anything like that.

It's also stylistic. AJ asks many questions which he knows are wildly out of bounds for the drama and effect. Brennan also chose to do this versus Dr Wolfe but did not do so much versus Russell.

All in all, the idea it shows the Judge is biased is not demonstrated IMO.

MOO.

Many lawyers seem to disagree with you.

 

[ShadyLady]

Why pull down to the flag pole and not in the driveway?

Karen first parked by the driveway. Per Ryan's testimony, he was the driver that pulled up just after her, behind her. THEN she pulled up about a car length, probably because she saw them behind her. I think as soon as she first pulled up by the driveway, John jumped out and headed for the front door. Ryan and crew would not have seen JOhn approach the house as there were cars in the driveway which would have block their view. 90ft. Into the house.

 

[AngTxGal]

I thought I'd transcribe some of Ian Whiffin's evidence from JOK's phone. Not everything, but just some of the data showing battery temperature, phone unlocking/pocket state etc. There is more data in his presentation. I don't think this has been transcribed here before, although could have missed it.

Phone battery temperatures shown in red.

28th Jan 2022

8.43 PM - 25C / 77F

9.39 PM - 28C / 82F

10.18 PM - 30C / 86F

10.40 PM - 28C / 82F

11.28 PM - 30C / 86F

29th Jan 2022

12.13 AM - 28C / 82F

12.22 AM - 25C / 77F – IN CAR BECAUSE OF LOCATION DATA

12.24.22 AM – TRAVELING 18.3 MPH

12.24.23 AM – TRAVELING 16.9 MPH

12.24.24 AM – TRAVELING 16.9 MPH

12.24.25 AM – TRAVELING 16.6 MPH

12.24.26 AM – TRAVELING AT 17 MPH – & WAZE APP CLOSED

12.24.27 AM – TRAVELING AT 15.9 MPH

12.24.28 AM – TRAVELING AT 14.5 MPH - APPROX. 34 FAIRVIEW DRIVEWAY AREA – & PHONE LOCKS

12.24.29 AM – TRAVELING 12.1 MPH

12.24.30 AM – TRAVELING 11.5 MPH

12.24.31 AM – TRAVELING 10.4 MPH

12.24.32 AM – TRAVELING 8.9 MPH

12.24.33 AM – TRAVELING 7 MPH

12.24.34 AM – TRAVELING 5.2 MPH

12.24.35 AM – TRAVELING 3.5 MPH

12.24.36 AM – TRAVELING 3.2 MPH

12.24.37 AM – TRAVELING 1.4 MPH

12.24.38 AM – DEVICE COMES TO A STOP 0 MPH – ‘CLOSE TO FLAGPOLE AREA’

12.24.59 AM – PHONE UNLOCKED FACE ID

12.25.08 AM - TEXT ‘YOU COMING HERE?’ READ

12.25.09 AM – LOCK BUTTON PRESSED

12.27.33 AM – TEXT REC’D FROM JMc ‘HERE?’

12.27.45 AM – PHONE UNLOCKED FACE ID

12.27.48 AM – TEXT ‘HERE?’ READ

12.27.50 AM - LOCK BUTTON PRESSED

12.29.44 AM – 12.29.51 AM - INCOMING CALL ANSWERED 7 SECS

12.29.52 AM – PHONE UNLOCKED FACE ID & SMS ON SCREEN

12.29.53 AM – LOCK BUTTON PRESSED

12.31.47 AM – TXT MSG RECD ‘PULL BEHIND ME’

12.31.52 AM – IS IN A POCKET STATE

12.31.56 AM – START OF 36 STEPS

12.32.03 AM – POCKET STATE CLEARED

12.32.04 AM – PHONE UNLOCKED FACE ID & SMS ON SCREEN

12.32.06 AM – READ MSG ‘PULL BEHIND ME’

12.32.09 – APP CLOSED & LOCK BUTTON PRESSED FINAL INTERACTION WITH DEVICE BEFORE POCKET STATE. THIS IS DURING THE 5-SECOND WINDOW LEXUS HAS GONE 87FT IN REVERSE, IS STILL GOING AT 23 MPH AT 74% THROTTLE, ZERO BRAKE APPLICATION, ACCORDING TO BURGESS CALCS FOR TIME DIFF WITH LEXUS CLOCK.

12.32.16 AM - END OF 36 STEPS

12.33.14 – POCKET STATE (PHONE CAMERA COVERED) LASTING 5 HRS+ UNTIL 6.15.01 AM

12.37 AM - 22C / 72F

12.45 AM - 19C / 66F

12.53 AM - 16C / 61F

1.07 AM - 13C / 55F

1.36 AM - 10C / 50F

6.06 AM - 6C / 43F – KNOWN FROM EVENTS IT’S UNDERNEATH JOHN

6.14 AM – 2C / 37F – PARAMEDICS HAVE JUST REMOVED JOHN ON STRETCHER

6.15.01 AM – KERRY ROBERTS PICKS UP PHONE FROM GROUND (ON VIDEO) / POCKET CLEARS

6.35 AM – 7C / 45F

6.40 AM – 10C / 50F

6.48 AM – 13C / 55F

6.56 AM – 16C / 61F


Ian Whiffin's evidence:

Kerry Roberts' evidence showing video of her picking up phone & paramedics moving John:
timestamp
1.31.35

TIMELINE/ TEMPERATURE- JOK’s Phone
Thank you, Summary and posting again to bring forward

Ian Whiffin’s evidence/ testimony- Cellebrite

12:22: - phone temp 77F
12:24:22- 12:24:38 phone traveling in car, comes to stop near flagpole area
12:31:56 - 12:32:16 Start of 36 Steps
12:32:04- phone face recognition Unlock
12:32:06- SMS text read from JMc “Pull behind me”
12:32:16- End of 36 Steps
12:45-6:14AM- phone temp keeps falling
6:14- phone temp 37F Phone under JOK body
6:35- phone temp 45F Kerry Roberts picked up phone, put in pocket, to 1st responder
6:56-phone temp continues to rise to 61F

My Speculations/ Synthesis During the 36 Steps
36 steps in 20 seconds- a jog
Interacted with phone- face recognition- unlocked by JOK
Moving west (Cellebrite testimony)- West is toward Albert house from road


IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

I'm

He's spot on. Talking about promotion, if Morrissey retires then Brennan may want his job. I can't see the voters putting him through after he has made such a derogatory spectacle of himself in this case. Moo

Funny, I just read an article that Mass is high on the list for illegal drug use.

 

[nightowl1975]

Karen first parked by the driveway. Per Ryan's testimony, he was the driver that pulled up just after her, behind her. THEN she pulled up about a car length, probably because she saw them behind her. I think as soon as she first pulled up by the driveway, John jumped out and headed for the front door. Ryan and crew would not have seen JOhn approach the house as there were cars in the driveway which would have block their view. 90ft. Into the house.

I believe the post you’re responding to was speaking to why the Ford Edge was parked on the street down by the flag pole in the middle of the night vs being parked in or near the driveway. It wasn’t asking about KR’s parking place.

 

[DropthePuck]

It's worth pointing out that the number of objections sustained depends mostly on trial strategy and style.

For instance, if you spend most time on direct, you will have fewer sustained objections than if you do much more aggressive cross.

Conversely Alessi objects far more on direct than I am used to, leading to sustained objections which are technically correct but mostly pointless. (e.g. leading the witness is often overlooked for efficiency purposes).

In any event, given AJ conducted an extremely aggressive cross of Yuri for many hours, it isn't surprising he would run up a lot of sustained objections. Ditto the marathon cross of Burgess by Alessi. Brennan hasn't conducted anything like that.

It's also stylistic. AJ asks many questions which he knows are wildly out of bounds for the drama and effect. Brennan also chose to do this versus Dr Wolfe but did not do so much versus Russell.

All in all, the idea it shows the Judge is biased is not demonstrated IMO.

MOO.

AJ would not have had to do "an extremely aggressive cross of Yuri for many hours" if the man had just answered. the. questions.

 

[louvillian08]

If you want a technical answer

1. The 1162 techstream data from the EDR module was not contested in either T1 or T2. I think you could fairly describe it as an accepted fact, because to contest it, you'd have to take it up with Toyota.

2. The recovery of the user data from the SD card following a BERLA extraction was also uncontested by the defence in this case (user data included ignition on/off timestamps, odometer reads, phone logs). ditto - take it up with BERLA and Toyota.

As such it appears to be implicitly accepted in the defence case, that the vehicle drove at 24mph in reverse at 34F but;

a) the defence dispute clock variance between Johns IOS clock and the Lexus clock by some small number of seconds

b) the defence dispute where exactly the reversing ocurred within some number of feet.

I think you see this in their case. ARCCA would not recreate a reversing accident at 24mph if the defence case was this speed never occurred.

IMO

This is not quite accurate.

1. Yes, the EDR data is not contested by the defense or the CW. The EDR data responsible for logging collisions, impacts, deployment events, etc. did not log ANY events. 1162-2 is a reference to VCH data, not EDR.

2. The vast majority of this data was in trial 1. The only controversy about the key cycle came from the CW's expert witness testifying, under oath, about his testing on key cycle 1164

b) "ocurred within some number of feet" - 4,752 feet, or .9 miles to be exact. The drive from 34 Fairview to 1 Meadows is between 2.3 and 2.7 miles, depending on routes. KR could have been nearly half the way home when reversing. Not merely a difference of a few feet. The CW also has no foundation or data to argue where the specific reversing event occurred. It's not a matter of the defense "disputing" when in fact the CW has provided zero evidence or proof for any location.

"I think you see this in their case. ARCCA would not recreate a reversing accident at 24mph if the defence case was this speed never occurred."

I think you're missing the entire point of our legal system if this is your takeaway. The purpose of the defense's case and witnesses are to refute what the prosecution is alleging. When the CW is arguing such a ridiculous non-theory of what happened, the simplest and cleanest route to take is pointing out all the ways it couldn't possibly happen the way the CW claims. 24pmh is what the CW claimed, naturally that is what ARCCA needs to focus on.

A minor point but based on HB's cross of Wolfe, it seems the CW isn't claiming the speed was 24mph anymore, changing their theory yet again during the trial.

 

[ShadyLady]

I believe the post you’re responding to was speaking to why the Ford Edge was parked on the street down by the flag pole in the middle of the night vs being parked in or near the driveway. It wasn’t asking about KR’s parking place.

Got it. Did Lucky say exactly where the Edge was? I don't remember. So, dropping off John's body?

 

[lohrtabitha]

do you have those numbers to hand?

We won't have the exact record until this trial is over and the court record has been published. You can easily rewatch any trial day in this second trial and witness it firsthand.

 

[mzmarymac]

Can someone please help me. I have no idea how I don't know this, but can someone please explain to me the CW theory of how KR his JOK with her car?

Which direction was she facing? When was the 3-point turn supposed to take place? Are they saying she turned around in the driveway? And where are the alleging she started from and reversed into him? Where was he supposedly standing when he was hit? And wasn't there a car that arrive literally just behind her that would have actually seen her back up and run him over? I can see how they may have missed a man jump out of the car into the house, but can't see how they could have possibly missed her reversing and backing into him.

 

[AngTxGal]

Funny, I just read an article that Mass is high on the list for illegal drug use.

I wondered where MA falls compared to other states.

MASS State comparison
Top 3 Highest educated population
Top 1 Highest public education K-12 based on standardized tests
Top 5 Safest- low violent crime and property crime
Murder rate per capita- 2.5 per 100,000
Top 10 Highest cannabis use

I see why MA is ‘high’ on the list for illegal drug use, and low in crime rate.

IMO

 

[shotgun09]

Can someone please help me. I have no idea how I don't know this, but can someone please explain to me the CW theory of how KR his JOK with her car?

Which direction was she facing? When was the 3-point turn supposed to take place? Are they saying she turned around in the driveway? And where are the alleging she started from and reversed into him? Where was he supposedly standing when he was hit? And wasn't there a car that arrive literally just behind her that would have actually seen her back up and run him over? I can see how they may have missed a man jump out of the car into the house, but can't see how they could have possibly missed her reversing and backing into him.

Basically, the CW's belief is just like Trooper Paul's, from Season 1.
They don't know HOW, Where, When.....other than " It just did".

See???? Now declare her guilty.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Got it. Did Lucky say exactly where the Edge was? I don't remember. So, dropping off John's body?

Lucky says he wouldn't have seen a body where John was later found because this vehicle was blocking his view of that area. So near the flagpole presumably.

The SUV could also have been used an attempt to block the street view of two men carrying out John's body from the gate on that side of the backyard fence. Why risk getting John's DNA in anyone's vehicle. Athough Tristan Morris's vehicle would have been a fairly safe one to use. He wasn't at the party that night and the Alberts first lied and said Caitlin had left hours before she actually did. So no one would have been asking him any questions the next morning.

 

[Wishbone]

Basically, the CW's belief is just like Trooper Paul's, from Season 1.
They don't know HOW, Where, When.....other than " It just did".

See???? Now declare her guilty.

Thank you.

 

[ShadyLady]

I wondered where MA falls compared to other states.

MASS State comparison
Top 3 Highest educated population
Top 1 Highest public education K-12 based on standardized tests
Top 5 Safest- low violent crime and property crime
Murder rate per capita- 2.5 per 100,000
Top 10 Highest cannabis use

I see why MA is ‘high’ on the list for illegal drug use, and low in crime rate.

IMO

My bad, I was looking at stats of teen age drug users. Mass #4. Per Wallethub.

 

[ShadyLady]

Lucky says he wouldn't have seen a body where John was later found because this vehicle was blocking his view of that area. So near the flagpole presumably.

The SUV could also have been used an attempt to block the street view of two men carrying out John's body from the gate on that side of the backyard fence. Why risk getting John's DNA in anyone's vehicle. Athough Tristan Morris's vehicle would have been a fairly safe one to use. He wasn't at the party that night and the Alberts first lied and said Caitlin had left hours before she actually did. So no one would have been asking him any questions the next morning.

Good points. Very odd so many lies. If not guilty why not just tell the truth about who was there and when did they leave.

 

[AngTxGal]

Can someone please help me. I have no idea how I don't know this, but can someone please explain to me the CW theory of how KR his JOK with her car?

Which direction was she facing? When was the 3-point turn supposed to take place? Are they saying she turned around in the driveway? And where are the alleging she started from and reversed into him? Where was he supposedly standing when he was hit? And wasn't there a car that arrive literally just behind her that would have actually seen her back up and run him over? I can see how they may have missed a man jump out of the car into the house, but can't see how they could have possibly missed her reversing and backing into him.

Two weeks ago I had a completely different picture in my mind. This is what I understand now, based on testimony. The jury visited the scene and the Lexus was placed on the street in front of the house.

KR passed up 34 Fairview when they arrived, did 3 pt turn to come back to the house
KR pulled up in front of the house on the street, back of car near drive, facing flagpole
KR pulls forward as another car pulls behind her, testimonies say car slowly pulls forward several times until she is in front of the flagpole
JOK gets out of car at some point- as per KR testimony, phone shows he is near flagpole, circle of location is between 7-18 meters as per Cellebrite testimony

Where was he standing when hit??
Was a car behind KR when hit??
Where was KR when backing up??


IMO

 

[DustysMom]

Yes, you’re spot on regarding BH’s response to KR’s initial texts - he was like “you’re sure you’ve got the right guy? Are you serious or is this some sort of prank?”
And then at the very end - she texts him “John’s dead” and we get complete silence from BH. Probably because he was too busy calling his lawyer….bizarre. IMO, he knew that anything he said at that point could get him into trouble.

This would also explain why the McAlberts blame KR and have such a hatred for her. In their minds, none of this would have happened if she didn’t reach out to BH in the first place.

 

[bobbymkii]

Please tell me I'm not the only person whom this case has taken up so much of their thought that they do the following thing:

So, I live in a part of London where none of the homes have driveway or garage so everyone has to park their car on the street. I must have just walked past about 50 cars on my walk to and from the shop just now and as I was walking by I must have looked at the taillight of every single one of them, comparing the designs, the lens/diffuser, height or whether it had a tailgate segment and corner segment like the Lexus!