MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #34 Retrial

[Tortoise]

If HB had listened to her, she said with that head injury he would be deceased within 15 minutes or so, so no way he was lying on a cold lawn in the snow for 1-2 hours before he died. HB just keeps trying to confuse witnesses with unfounded theories and thinks he's 'proving' something.

It wasn't a complicated question yet Brennan had to ask her three times and the judge had to instruct her to listen to the question before she would answer him.

Turns out she finally agreed it was possible for a person to be alive for two hours and have a body temperature of 80 degrees after a total of six hours in sub zero temperatures.

5.35.14

 

[ShadyLady]

It wasn't a complicated question yet Brennan had to ask her three times and the judge had to instruct her to listen to the question before she would answer him.

Turns out she finally agreed it was possible for a person to be alive for two hours and have a body temperature of 80 degrees after a total of six hours in sub zero temperatures.

5.35.14

But not in this case....

 

[TDoc72]

And he thinks he is a doctor and medical examiner as well as a lawyer

Maybe he’s riding the school bus w/Burgess and pursuing those degrees?

 

[Anniesflowers]

haha you made me go watch it again because I was on catch up mode when I heard it the first time!

He said..I thought you said it couldn't be caused by glass? she said I don't think I ever said that. It could be from a thicker piece of glass, but it was not a cut, not with a sharp blade, it was a scratch.

. Exactly!! No change to her testimony, just the good doctor catching Brennan in another lie.

 

[Teche]

Brennan tried to discredit Dr. Laposata’s work as the medical examiner in the Station Nightclub Fire but it blew up in his face. He was so excited during the Voir Dire but she took the wind right out of his sails.

Thank you.

 

[Tortoise]

But not in this case....

I don't think proving or disproving hypothermia is going to make the slightest bit of difference to the jury's deliberations.

MOO

 

[Anniesflowers]

It wasn't a complicated question yet Brennan had to ask her three times and the judge had to instruct her to listen to the question before she would answer him.

Turns out she finally agreed it was possible for a person to be alive for two hours and have a body temperature of 80 degrees after a total of six hours in sub zero temperatures.

5.35.14

I believe she actually said ‘anything is possible’. I don’t view her statement as her ‘agreeing’ with him. Context matters. She was badgered by Brennan and instructed to answer the question by the judge. She was backed into a corner, imo, and gave a response that showed how she really felt.

 

[Tortoise]

I believe she actually said ‘anything is possible’. I don’t view her statement as her ‘agreeing’ with him. Context matters. She was badgered by Brennan and instructed to answer the question by the judge. She was backed into a corner, imo, and gave a response that showed how she really felt.

Her answer was 'sure'. Link provided in post above.

 

[keek]

I believe she actually said ‘anything is possible’. I don’t view her statement as her ‘agreeing’ with him. Context matters. She was badgered by Brennan and instructed to answer the question by the judge. She was backed into a corner, imo, and gave a response that showed how she really felt.

So many corrections and facts she gave him, that is what is outstanding, shame if people missed that, massive difference in her knowledge clearyyy and his, laughable that he attempted different, foolish looking and proved it. IMO

 

[Anniesflowers]

I don't think proving or disproving hypothermia is going to make the slightest bit of difference to the jury's deliberations.

MOO

I agree! The jury will look for evidence of JOK being hit by a vehicle and won’t find it. That’s what matters. I have not heard one expert say that either the Lexus OR JOK’s body showed signs of a vehicle strike. In evidence is a video of KR’s right rear taillight being mostly intact BEFORE the investigators got their hands on it. Naturally, that will lead folks to wonder how on earth those taillight pieces got to 34 Fairview. This case has reasonable doubt all over it. I only pray the jury sees it the same way.

 

[Anniesflowers]

Her answer was 'sure'.

Context matters.

 

[Tortoise]

Context matters.

In the context of the question she was asked to answer.

 

[missy1974]

I thought he asked her to assume John was alive for 1-2 hours, losing heat at a slower rate, before dying.

Here is the questioning.. I included the question before and after. She did say in her testimony that at room temperature, a dead body would lose 1-1/2 degrees an hour IIRC.


sorry, I gave the wrong time stamp in my original post too...

5:33:00



HB: Somebody could be out in the cold under the snow sub freezing, they could be alive for some time, their body temperature could drop and then when they pass and die their body temperature could continue to drop probably at a more rapid pace? That still fits within 5 and a half hours, doesn't it Dr Laposota?

Doc: No


HB: Because if someone can drop four degrees of body temperature in an hour?

Doc: a dead body

HB: Yes, It would only take about a little over 4 hours if it was at 4° to go from 98.6 to 80 Yes?

Doc: Correct, yes so he was exposed to that cold environment for four to five hours

HB: If somebody was alive for a couple of hours it's a lower rate say they lose three degrees and then after that couple hours they lose body temperature at 4° that would still fit be consistent with a drop from 98.6 to 30°, to 80 degrees?

Doc: no the the you were saying a dead body cools in a cold environment at maybe 3 to four degrees an hour Um and that has nothing to do with a living body and how long they can stay at a their body temperature.

 

[keek]

I agree! The jury will look for evidence of JOK being hit by a vehicle and won’t find it. That’s what matters. I have not heard one expert say that either the Lexus OR JOK’s body showed signs of a vehicle strike. In evidence is a video of KR’s right rear taillight being mostly intact BEFORE the investigators got their hands on it. Naturally, that will lead folks to wonder how on earth those taillight pieces got to 34 Fairview. This case has reasonable doubt all over it. I only pray the jury sees it the same way.

I hate to say reasonable doubt and more like literal facts proven on many levels. IMO WE know what happened at FView, it's clear and again, if not the innocent plower, it was to be KR. Alberts knew nothinnnnnnnnnnng, and their buddy proctor and co. took it and ran away with the truth most importantly not to be found due to that mentality. Let's not forget JMc and her story, she sometimes forgets her story even though read out to her what she said. Worst of the worst were in that house. IMO

 

[Tortoise]

I agree! The jury will look for evidence of JOK being hit by a vehicle and won’t find it. That’s what matters. I have not heard one expert say that either the Lexus OR JOK’s body showed signs of a vehicle strike. In evidence is a video of KR’s right rear taillight being mostly intact BEFORE the investigators got their hands on it. Naturally, that will lead folks to wonder how on earth those taillight pieces got to 34 Fairview. This case has reasonable doubt all over it. I only pray the jury sees it the same way.

Dr Welcher gave his expert opinion that the arm injuries and the ensuing head injury were consistent with being struck by the Lexus.

36.29

In evidence is a photo of Read's Lexus with almost all of her rear taillight missing about eight hours before it was towed from Dighton.

 

[missy1974]

It wasn't a complicated question yet Brennan had to ask her three times and the judge had to instruct her to listen to the question before she would answer him.

Turns out she finally agreed it was possible for a person to be alive for two hours and have a body temperature of 80 degrees after a total of six hours in sub zero temperatures.

5.35.14

She finally agreed it CAN happen, she does not agree that it happened in this case... he asks the question with "someone", not John. Here is the exchange.. which I will note is right after the exchange in my last post. She makes it pretty clear that she does not believe that happened in this case.


HB: Do you disagree that somebody could be alive, lose body temperature out in the cold freezing temperature below 32 they could lose body temperature a certain rate then pass out pass die and then continue to lose body temperature, Is that possible?

Doc: anything's possible. It's just what's important, is what happened in this case

HB: I'm asking for your medical opinion though rather than to be an advocate as far as your medical opinion

Objection...sustained and I'll strike that.

HB: As far as ...

Judge: Dr Would you listen to the question please

Doc: of course Thank you your honor

HB: As far as your medical experience could somebody be alive outside in the cold below 32 degrees not moving covered by snow still alive and lose body temperature?

Doc: sure

HB: And then could they after an hour or two hours could they then die and continue to lose more body temperature

Doc: sure

 

[turaj]

Question: Can Karen speak at the sidebars? Also what is story with a juror asking baliff what "strike" means? He then went to judge. "Strike that" seems pretty obvious.

 

[missy1974]

I believe she actually said ‘anything is possible’. I don’t view her statement as her ‘agreeing’ with him. Context matters. She was badgered by Brennan and instructed to answer the question by the judge. She was backed into a corner, imo, and gave a response that showed how she really felt.

And it was generic, he didn't ask as if it was John himself, because she had already made it clear that she didn't believe that was the case with him specifically. It's just, what's important is what happened in this case.

 

[Anniesflowers]

Oooh…a little information about the X-rays. Look like the CW had them the entire time, as they were part of the autopsy

“Outside court, WBZ-TV's Kristina Rex asked Read why jurors were seeing the X-rays for the first time. "The Commonwealth didn't present them," Read said. "They were in the autopsy."

link: Karen Read defense calls final witness, jury could get case as soon as Friday
ETA: correct spelling.

 

[missy1974]

Dr Welcher gave his expert opinion that the arm injuries and the ensuing head injury were consistent with being struck by the Lexus.

36.29

In evidence is a photo of Read's Lexus with almost all of her rear taillight missing about eight hours before it was towed from Dighton.

Welcher also said the ME didn't take X-rays. That was a lie and the defense was not even able to cross him on that discrepancy.

Brutal that the judge allowed that to stand and not be corrected when he was testifying the first time. Hopefully the defense will be able to bring it up when he comes back.

JMO