MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #781
Just how busy is the Mountain Side?
I know it must vary depending on the time of day, but is it busy overall where there would be a line at the counter? Not the Deli counter, the check out counter.
 
  • #782
Ok, going on the theory she knew him somewhat, but not necessarily a relationship. I wonder if anyone saw her running with someone in the past? Could he have come across her while out exercising himself and talked with her before on the route? So she casually knew him? Then if she headed to the store and came across him he may have asked to meet up and run together? Would she have?
 
  • #783
I only spoke with a few people while there, including LE. I said to LE "this place doesn't feel like it used to when I was last here, it honestly feels a little unnerving". He said "it doesn't feel the same to any of us". I don't want to read into it too much but to me that statement implies that they have maybe not ruled out the possibility of this being random. That there is a killer out there among them. It's very unsettled. I did see a few groups of younger girls, high school age, eating lunch at MSM, talking about normal stuff. I know that I personally thought about the crime the entire time I was there in town. I didn't feel relaxed about it. It's very bothersome to visit that area and especially the scene.

Respectfully, when you write "bothersome", can you define it more narrowly ? TIA...
 
  • #784
Love John walsh. I think VM was "kind of known" to him. And possibly vice-versa. But I believe she was caught right after she left the driveway, within minutes. To me that points toward someone with recent immediate knowledge of her plans that day.

I understand there are questions about the accuracy of the phone "ping", especially when shut off. I do know that typically the find my iPhone is very accurate, to within tens of feet. When off this may extend to a couple hundred feet or so. BUT

Just for the sake of examination, can we suppose the killer fled the scene with her phone in his vehicle, and realized he had it or had to address it when his racing mind was tying up loose ends, as he drove past the mountain barn. When he immediately shut the phone off. In this scenario- what does his direction of exit tell us?

Looking at the map, the perp would then have been traveling south on 31, toward Holden ( The most populous of the five towns surrounding the area and therefore statistically the most likely area where a "local "killer might live. It is away from the towns of Sterling, hubbardston, Princeton and Leominster. It is also in the direction of the much larger city of Worcester, but the main way to Worcester would have been to head east on route 62. In fact. IF WE ARE ASSUMING A LOCAL, FAMILIAR WITH THE ROADS AND ROUTES, an exit past the mountain barn is MOST DIRECTLY TO HOLDEN. Each of the other towns are more easily accessed via alternative routes which would have taken the killer in directions away from Mountain Barn. Also, the escape to Worcester would have been faster and more direct via rt 62/140/190. Something that a local would very likely know.

So, are we looking for someone in Holden? They could have been in the safety of their own home in 10-15 minutes.
I don't agree with the scenario, but just for the sake of examination, it depends which way he exited BSR.
If he went north, then yes, he would be traveling south on Rt 31.
If he went south to Ball Hill Rd. then he would be heading north.
 
  • #785
Ok, going on the theory she knew him somewhat, but not necessarily a relationship. I wonder if anyone saw her running with someone in the past? Could he have come across her while out exercising himself and talked with her before on the route? So she casually knew him? Then if she headed to the store and came across him he may have asked to meet up and run together? Would she have?

Thought along those lines too. Seems quite believable. jmo
 
  • #786
Can anyone show facts that she was attacked at the beginning of the route right away?
 
  • #787
If anything happened btw her and her killer I don't think it was the type of thing where they were in communication or super close.

I only suggested that perhaps she had alternate plans other then the store ...regardless of what these ulternative plans were...it seems more likely she had alternative plans then ran into someone on her way there.

But it seems there would be some indication somewhere of what these other plans where or her phone would at least have told LE at this point where she was when she was at "the store".

If she makes it to the parking lot but doesnt go in...then the only thing I see is she got rattled.

I'm not sure of it would be more likely to have been intercepted or have been misleading about plans.

One last thought, IF it was a married man...he might not be a millennial and HIS digital footprint might be significantly less over all period. But again I doubt even if there was something they were communicating with each other. I see it as more of a one off event, not an ongoing thing.
If they are not communicating with each other, and it's not an ongoing thing, and more of a one off event, then I see no motive for her to want to tell his wife, nor do I see a motive for murder.
 
  • #788
Ok, going on the theory she knew him somewhat, but not necessarily a relationship. I wonder if anyone saw her running with someone in the past? Could he have come across her while out exercising himself and talked with her before on the route? So she casually knew him? Then if she headed to the store and came across him he may have asked to meet up and run together? Would she have?
Could very well be, but, If they knew each other that well where they ran together, than my bet is that her Mom knew about him too.
 
  • #789
Respectfully, when you write "bothersome", can you define it more narrowly ? TIA...

I mean bothersome to the soul. To me, it just felt like there was evil impressed into the landscape. It was unsettling. It felt like every dark passing car could be a murderer on the loose. I think people there are very very disturbed by this happening. Everyone wants it solved.
 
  • #790
I don't agree with the scenario, but just for the sake of examination, it depends which way he exited BSR.
If he went north, then yes, he would be traveling south on Rt 31.
If he went south to Ball Hill Rd. then he would be heading north.

If the subject vehicle was parked along the side of BSR at the cart path, presumably it was facing north with traffic. Which might explain why he passed mph rain barn even though it would have been simpler to go south on BSR.
 
  • #791
Can anyone show facts that she was attacked at the beginning of the route right away?

There isn't any. It's speculative only. But seems MOST LIKELY based on her KNOWN point of origin, publicly KNOWN tips which identify someone of her description on BSR and not elsewhere (yea maybe there are other tips, but we don't know em), he KNOWN fairly narrow 2-hour timeframe, her KNOWN typical running pace, the KNOWN site where she ended up. All seem to me to point to an altercation early in her run. There may be a few anomalous things that point toward another scenario, but the totality of known evidence seem to me to support the early encounter.
 
  • #792
Just how busy is the Mountain Side?
I know it must vary depending on the time of day, but is it busy overall where there would be a line at the counter? Not the Deli counter, the check out counter.

Not usually more than one or two people being waited on at the counter at any given time. I've never had any more than one person in line in front of me and I am there in that window (11-2 pm)
 
  • #793
Could very well be, but, If they knew each other that well where they ran together, than my bet is that her Mom knew about him too.

Oh, I was just wondering if it had happened only once or a couple times, nothing regular, but run into each other exercising before. Then she may not be questioning things if he approached her?
 
  • #794
If the subject vehicle was parked along the side of BSR at the cart path, presumably it was facing north with traffic. Which might explain why he passed mph rain barn even though it would have been simpler to go south on BSR.
I guess we can make any scenario fit. How's this?...
The road is wide enough to do a 360 easy, and he didn't want to to into town because his face was scratched up and didn't want anyone to see him, so he turned around and went south?
 
  • #795
I guess we can make any scenario fit. How's this?...
The road is wide enough to do a 360 easy, and he didn't want to to into town because his face was scratched up and didn't want anyone to see him, so he turned around and went south?

Great point- So he could have gone south to avoid town and then turned and passed mountain barn heading north, But then he would have basically been passing right through the area he had been trying to avoid, wouldn't he?
 
  • #796
Great point- So he could have gone south to avoid town and then turned and passed mountain barn heading north, But then he would have basically been passing right through the area he had been trying to avoid, wouldn't he?
Yes, but he wouldn't have had to stop at the stop sign and take the risk of sitting there to be seen.
 
  • #797
Yes, but he wouldn't have had to stop at the stop sign and take the risk of sitting there to be seen.

Ok, that sounds plausible. Is there ANYTHING at all that makes one escape route more likely than the other ? North vs south? Assuming the route begins at the scene and that the mountain barn is along the route.

I am trying to reason the most likely place where he may have disposed of the phone. As I think this would have occurred soon after fleeing. It may be hidden there still, maybe within a mile or two of the crime scene.
 
  • #798
Great point- So he could have gone south to avoid town and then turned and passed mountain barn heading north, But then he would have basically been passing right through the area he had been trying to avoid, wouldn't he?
Still wondering why someone that just killed someone, would want anything to do with that phone. That's like having an ELT strapped to him. If he had it in his car, he didn't forget it, and if she was in the car and he didn't realize she left it there (even though if she's in jogging shorts it would have been in her hand), then I see a different place where her body would have been found, because I don't see him bringing her back there.
I say that ping came from the phone that was in the woods where she was killed, and due to it being shut off, the area of the ping was expanded. That's more logical.
 
  • #799
Still wondering why someone that just killed someone, would want anything to do with that phone. That's like having an ELT strapped to him. If he had it in his car, he didn't forget it, and if she was in the car and he didn't realize she left it there (even though if she's in jogging shorts it would have been in her hand), then I see a different place where her body would have been found, because I don't see him bringing her back there.
I say that ping came from the phone that was in the woods where she was killed, and due to it being shut off, the area of the ping was expanded. That's more logical.

That is why I questioned the timing of the connection at the barn restaurant. I would think the first he would do is disable the phone.
 
  • #800
If there were ear buds, he knew she had phone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
109
Guests online
1,708
Total visitors
1,817

Forum statistics

Threads
632,451
Messages
18,626,956
Members
243,159
Latest member
Tank0228
Back
Top