Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 10

[sherri79]

We need to back up and look at how this thread sounds, a sad state of events indeed. I had a post made up to illustrate it but it used some satire and I think it would have been ill received by some . . . . . but people just stop and think carefully please.

To me this thread sounds like most of us blame the parents. every time the parents give a interview we look for anything they say that backs the theory that they are guilty no matter how small. when news is slow we tend to drift back to how we blame the parents either by their neglect our by the out right action of harming the child. many of us not only never give the parents the benefit of innocent til proven guilty but we find it easy to dismiss any clue that may point away from their guilt. these parents have lost a child and many of us show them little or no pity even though they may not have directly harmed the child.

i am 1 of the many i spoke of. i can only speak for myself as to why i feel justified in such harsh feelings about these parents. first parents are always the first suspect for a reason. when a child is killed it is more likely the parent that did it than it is a stranger. second i feel anger at these parent because of the amazing neglect they showed to the thing that should mean more than life its self. nothing is more precious to a parent than a child. then not only did they neglect the children but they seem to act as they did nothing wrong. third their actions since the loss of their child seem to me to show the same selfish attitude that caused them to neglect the child in the first place. for me it comes down to this. at best they caused harm to their child by neglect. at worst they harmed their child themselves.

i'm not sure if this is what you saw when you looked back on the thread but it is what i saw when i read my post and the post of those i agree with most often.

 

[Texana]

I'm not sure I'm up for any crow pie, frankly, but I'll eat anything if Maddie is found safe and alive. If the McCanns get Maddie back, and I hope and pray they do, it won't change the fact that all she went through and the trauma she will have suffered were set in motion because she was left alone by her parents. (and again, according to parents, with an unlocked door.)

I don't believe the McCanns necessarily are involved her disappearance, simply because they were careless people. But I can't throw out the fact that they might have been, because again, they were careless people.

The unexplained items and discrepancies in the "official" version don't help either. I've never been convinced the "Ramseys did it" with Jon-Benet, but I've never had a problem understanding why someone else might think they did.

I still wonder why that massive reward hasn't had results.

 

[philamena]

Sorry, I disagree strongly. Everything that came after they left their children at the mercy whomever took her is their fault.

I totally agree.

IF Maddie's parents didn't harm their child and personally cause her disappearance, they still caused it because they left 3 youngsters--their own flesh and blood---alone in a strange place, in a strange country. The thought of that still pithes me off to no end.:banghead:

IF one of the adults had stayed with the children....Maddie wouldn't be missing.


IF one of the adults had hired a babysitter.......Maddie wouldn't be missing.

 

[philamena]

I'm not sure I'm up for any crow pie, frankly, but I'll eat anything if Maddie is found safe and alive. If the McCanns get Maddie back, and I hope and pray they do, it won't change the fact that all she went through and the trauma she will have suffered were set in motion because she was left alone by her parents. (and again, according to parents, with an unlocked door.) ............

Texana,
well said!

 

[sherri79]

Sorry, I disagree strongly. Everything that came after they left their children at the mercy whomever took her is their fault.

you are right 100%. the fact they are guilty does not give a free pass to any1 who may have taken her. they are both guilty. hundreds of bad things can happen to our kids that we cant stop. lead in their toys. illness. a freakin meteor from the sky. with all the things you cant save them from is angers me to no end that they ignored a danger that was so easy to prevent. hell they ignored alot of danger... kidnapping, fire ,a fall, so many things that could have happened to 3 babies left all alone....

 

[CaliKid]

You know who else seems to be missing? Calikid - wonder where she got off too? I hope where ever it is, she is having a great time! Colomom too!

It's good to get away every once in awhile.

Salem

PS - that's not to say that everyone else is not appreciated. You all are, it is just that Colomom and Calikid keep us updated with all the Portugese news, other blog/thread news, etc.

Hi everyone. I'm here. I spent the whole day at an impromptu beach party with my family. :blowkiss: Thank you, friends. I feel so loved. :blushing:

 

[CaliKid]

A few days ago it was reported that the McCanns had not told police of their meal out with Madeleine at about 630pm on the night she disappeared. The owner of the restaurant offered law enforcement the opportunity to see the cctv footage from the restaurant.

Perhaps the meal was not mentioned because the outfit Madeleine was wearing is not available to show. If she was wearing a little blue sunsuit (for example) on the footage, then the McCanns should- should- be able to produce it. Otherwise, there would be a real question as to what became of it.

Great thinking, Morag! I wonder if the clothes Madeleine had on that day have been accounted for?

 

[Shazza]

Doc - you may have a point here. I agree that sometimes it seems we may be over reacting to some of the things that are published in the media or found on other threads/blogs, etc.

However, most of us have been posting in regards to this case since it happened. In the beginning I think the majority of us tried our best to be supportative of the parents and to watch what we said. As the time dragged on and Maddie remained missing and the initial lies told by the family and friends came to light, the tone of this thread did change, but that change was in resonse to the reality we were seeing.

I understand that typically in a case such as this, where there is a missing child, you would be supportative of the parents, but this is not a typical case, in my opinion. As more and more information becomes available, it is harder and harder to find a reason to support the parents.

We all support Maddie. We all want her found and returned to those that love her. However, if she is found alive, I believe it would be in Maddie's best interest that her parents are sent to "parenting" school before Maddie is returned to them.

I, for one, and I think there are at least a few others on here, would very much like to see my (our) theories and opinions proved wrong. A few of us have agreed to bake a crow pie (I have lots of crows here, where I live) and eat our share for some of the things we have said and thought.:crazy:

But I won't apologize. I firmly believe that the very best thing the McCanns could do for their daughter is tell the truth. The PLE and/or the British LE would have a much better chance of finding her if they knew exactly what happened and who had access to her that night. As it is, they can't even get their timeline straight. How is that helpful?

While I admit to getting somewhat emotional about this case, I do still think I can be objective and like I said, I would be very happy to be proven wrong.

Salem

Absolutely agree Salem with every word you have said. Great post.

 

[CarpeDiem]

A few days ago it was reported that the McCanns had not told police of their meal out with Madeleine at about 630pm on the night she disappeared. The owner of the restaurant offered law enforcement the opportunity to see the cctv footage from the restaurant.

Perhaps the meal was not mentioned because the outfit Madeleine was wearing is not available to show. If she was wearing a little blue sunsuit (for example) on the footage, then the McCanns should- should- be able to produce it. Otherwise, there would be a real question as to what became of it.

I sure hope the PJ has thought of that. But then again, they didn't take Cuddle Cat, so what are the chances something like that was taken or thought of?

 

[CarpeDiem]

This article was just posted on the Portugal Police blunders via the British Investigative team:

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_hea...objectid=19658501&siteid=93463-name_page.html

There's so much info there, much we talked about early on, some new. This line made me LOL, "Police chief Guilhermino Encarnacao, 59, was dubbed Inspector Clueless.". Aint that the truth though!

 

[CaliKid]

Every time I hear or read of a piece of evidence that was not tested or a testimony not checked out, all I can think of was how the McCanns flavored the original investigation by insisting Madeleine had been kidnapped. Just think where we'd be right now if the PJ had looked at every angle from the get-go. Or maybe they did, and it's the parents (and perp) who have been tricked.

 

[BethInAK]

We don't yet know, other than rumor of course, if this is true.

We don't?
The police have said that this is so to the newspapers.

Sometimes it seems like the only sources you think are reliable are the parents.

 

[BethInAK]

Well in that case I would completely agree with you, the person.
Hardly the same though. I would even expect the child to be run over in that case. The car also has a right to be on the highway.
I would not expect somebody to, nor do they have the right to break into somebody's apartment and steal their child.

If its found that madeleine walked out of the unlocked door, would you consider them responsible for that?

 

[april4sky]

If its found that madeleine walked out of the unlocked door, would you consider them responsible for that?

The comment on your previous post was unfair.
I don't know for certain what happened to Madeleine. And I don't believe any of us know that either.
I am trying to keep an open mind until the police tell us officially what happened and by whome.
If Madeleine had walked out an unlocked door, then yes I would blame her parents.
That is a lot different than some perp entering somebody's apartment and stealing a child.

 

[CaliKid]

There is some interesting news that was discussed on a variety of forums today- Mirror, Aussie Mike's, etc. It sounds as if some of the telephone and cellphone records are being leaked. What do you make of this?

When Kate McCann discovered Madeleine missing, she called her parents in Liverpool. They had a visitor, a Patricia Perkins, the Human Resources director of a British health organization. Pat Perkins was the person who sent out the original e-mail regarding Madeleine, asking people to e-mail everyone they knew and pass along infomation about her abduction.

Pat Perkins also contacted a friend of hers. Aurelio Guerreiro, the owner of a bar at the marina in Vilamoura (an hour away from Praia da Luz) received a phone call from her between 12:30 and 1:00 am on Friday, May 4. Pat, who had been a customer of his when she lived in Portugal, asked him to go to PDL to assist the McCanns. "She told me the daughter of British friends of hers, who were vacationing close to Lagos, had disappeared over 3 hours ago, that they were completely alone and that nobody was helping them to search for her”.

Guerreiro tells what he did after Pat called him: “I understood she wanted me to go meet them, but I was an hour away from their location, and I could not close the bar, I decided to call the police”. After PJ in Portimao confirmed to him they already knew about the case, Aurelio phoned Kate, at the number that Pat had given him: “An English man picked up. He thanked me, and contrary to what I expected, he didn’t ask me for anything”.

Minutes after this phonecall, Gerry asked for a priest from the Luz parish (the church they frequently attend now) to be called for him, but the Ocean Club staff members refused, given the time it was (after 1 am). At 4:00 am, Jane Tanner asked a member of GNR: “Have you cut off all the roads already?” Minutes later, Gerry, realizing a priest hadn't arrived, asked another member of GNR to show him the way to the church.

Gerry McCann already knew the way to the church. He had dined at Chaplins Restaurant two nights before- it is right next to the church in Luz.

 

[Shazza]

Just a news item I came across, saying the P LE knew that Madelaine had died in the apartment for a month.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?storyID=8144

 

[CaliKid]

According to restaurant records, the McCann party consumed 8 bottles of red wine and 6 of white wine during the short hour that dinner lasted before Kate McCann returned to inform them of Madeleine's disappearance. (That's almost 1 ½ bottles per person.)

 

[Shazza]

Meanwhile, police no longer think that Murat was involved, according to the reports.

The above is a snippet taken from this link.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/17/wmaddy117.xml
This is not the link where I got the above snippet but it does tell us that Murat is not a suspect anymore.

 

[CaliKid]

"Robert Murat, the only formal suspect questioned in the case, has been ruled out."

From the latest SOL report: GNR (local police) was on location at 11 p.m. With the help of a member of staff from the Ocean Club, who served as a translator until 4 a.m., they collected the first reports. Although Maddie’s mother guaranteed that, when she noticed her daughter was missing, the shutters of the room where the children were sleeping were up and the window was open, the members of this police force did not detect any clues to indicate that these had been forced.

On the other hand, the resort’s employee guaranteed to Sol that “the shutters are so old and simple” that, with the sun exposure they were subject to in these 14 years, if anyone did “try to open them from the outside, they would have broken”. The main door to the apartment didn’t show any signs of a break-in, either.

The McCann family were never alone. Dozens of members of staff at the resort appealed to the local population, mostly English citizens, and the surrounding areas were searched thoroughly. The couple was busy making phonecalls.*

Biological traces@ of Madeleine have been found in the rented car of one of the McCanns' friends.

*So while friends and the resort staff were out calling for Madeleine and looking in shrubbery, trash cans and the swimming pools, the parents were on their cellphones making calls. Does anyone besides me see something wrong with this?

@There is no mention what kind of traces these were. But if they were traces of a dead body, I'd assume that this friend will become the top suspect very quickly.

 

[Shazza]

So who are the new suspects?