Malaysia airlines 370 with 239 people on board, 8 March 2014 #25

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #1,541
I don't buy this scenario that the pilot just decided to off himself and the passengers by flying off into the wild blue yonder. Did anyone ever find out if other pilots do "test runs" with simulators in their own homes? Just looked on line and there are so many "games" to practice flying with out there that anyone could access and learn from.

I question why this "new" info just happened to be released after a meeting was held to suspend the search when the last grid is completed? Was it a way to try to "calm the waters" for the surviving families so they wouldn't get too upset with ending the search?

I just wish they would hurry up and find this plane. Then maybe the surviving families and we could get some real answers.

I said the same thing about other pilots with SIMS. I found this in the article you posted.

Captain Desmond Ross, an aviation expert with three decades experience as a pilot, agrees there has been a distinct lack of transparency and says that many pilots plot unusual courses on home flight simulators for legitimate reasons. “I think there is a lot of information being withheld from the investigation,” he says. “I’m sure the Malaysians are withholding information.” ....

.... The current search area was based on data analysis by U.K. satellite firm Inmarsat, which has admitted its unprecedented calculation was merely an estimate and couldn’t be corroborated. Captain Ross says thinks investigators should have handled the investigation in the time-honored fashion and started the search from the last definite point of contact. “I don’t think they are searching in the correct area,” he says. “And I don’t believe the suicide theory at all. But it’s politically convenient.”

Now, the Malaysian police have dismissed the latest media reports that the pilot was on a suicidal flight and said that the report was not true.

http://time.com/4421357/malaysia-ai...-suicide-evidence-captain-zaharie-ahmad-shah/

Steve Wang, whose mother was on the plane is quoted in the article, he's very disappointed they suspended the search saying all 3 countries promised they'd never stop. He also says all of the next of kin doubt the location is correct. To me, suspending it for right now makes more sense, especially if they're going to try to go over everything to see if there is another option.

From your link -

The route and destination of the simulated flight was similar to the route investigators believe the plane took.

“We found a flight path, that led to the southern Indian Ocean, among the numerous other flight paths charted on the flight simulator, that could be of interest,” the document said, according to New York magazine.

However, Malaysian Police Inspector-General Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar told local media Saturday that no information had been passed onto investigators in the U.S., where the magazine said it obtained the document.

“We have never submitted such a report to any authority abroad including the FBI,” he said, according to the Malay Mail. “This report is not true.”
 
  • #1,542
Malaysia has handled this very poorly from the start. They have denied everything. They are not even paying their share of the search. This is 100% Malaysia Air's fault. I think the pilot was up to something. They narrowly evaded Indonesian airspace which likely was not an accident. Why else would they do this?

Now, the Malaysian police have dismissed the latest media reports that the pilot was on a suicidal flight and said that the report was not true.

http://time.com/4421357/malaysia-ai...-suicide-evidence-captain-zaharie-ahmad-shah/
 
  • #1,543
A really detailed article on the search for the plane, how they calculated where the jet is at. The article stated if a pilot was at the controls and gliding the jet as it was out of fuel, the jet could have gone an extra 100 miles or so. Otherwise if there was no pilot it would be max 20 miles. Apparently they think the jet was airborne and without power or fuel for at least 8 minutes.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/were-wrong-mh370-161553438.html
 
  • #1,544
A really detailed article on the search for the plane, how they calculated where the jet is at. The article stated if a pilot was at the controls and gliding the jet as it was out of fuel, the jet could have gone an extra 100 miles or so. Otherwise if there was no pilot it would be max 20 miles. Apparently they think the jet was airborne and without power or fuel for at least 8 minutes.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/were-wrong-mh370-161553438.html

This article was very informative.
Thanks for posting the link.
 
  • #1,545
Deleted
 
  • #1,546
Did he turn off the transponder and ACARS? Did someone else? Did the power to those units fail and they appeared to be turned off?
There are still too many questions .......

I too struggle with the scenario that this experienced pilot, who had flown so many people around the world safely, decided to take a large planeful of innocents with him on a final joyride to the Southern Ocean.

IIRC, ACARS has to be manually turned off.
I'm not sure if mechanical failure can turn the ACARS off.
Transponders will be affected in the event of a power outage, though.
 
  • #1,547
A really detailed article on the search for the plane, how they calculated where the jet is at. The article stated if a pilot was at the controls and gliding the jet as it was out of fuel, the jet could have gone an extra 100 miles or so. Otherwise if there was no pilot it would be max 20 miles. Apparently they think the jet was airborne and without power or fuel for at least 8 minutes.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/were-wrong-mh370-161553438.html

I do not buy the suicide scenario.
They also say they may have calculated the flight path wrong which the finding of debris supports. I also wonder what if it's under mud?


The most obvious candidate is that the plane wasn't pilotless at the end. "If it was manned it could glide for a long way," the director of Fugro, one of the companies conducting the search, told Reuters this week. "You could glide it for further than our search area is, so I believe the logical conclusion will be well maybe that is the other scenario."

If he's right, then a logical course of action would be to keep looking further outward from the final ping arc. Now that 46,000 square miles have been scanned, searching another 115,000 doesn't seem so crazy. Sure, we'd be following a $130 million, two-year fruitless search with one on the order of $325 million and five years, but that doesn't seem so extravagant when you realize that a single 777 costs $250 million.

The problem is that there's no guarantee the plane would turn up in the extended area, either. What if a different assumption is the faulty one-for example, the flight-path calculation? Maybe the plane took a lower-probability route that veered further to the north. Indeed, several studies of debris drift routes suggest that the plane hit the water somewhere in that direction. "The best guess that we think is that it's probably around the Broken Ridge region, which is slightly to the north of the area that they're looking at," Western Australian University oceanographer Charitha Pattiaratchi told the South China Morning Post.

We may never know. Today's announcement of the looming end of the search means neither of these possibilities will be explored. Although China, France and Malaysia are technically "suspending" the search until "credible new information" turns up, no one really believes that this will ever happen. It's game over.

Three months ago, Martin Dolan, then head of the Australian agency leading the seabed search, told the Guardian that he still felt it "very likely" that the plane would be found in the current search area because the investigators' technical analysis was "a very reliable proposition." It was the latest-and ultimately the last-in a series of official assurances that stretched back two years. What's now clear is that behind that the search leaders' confidence was not based on well-grounded certainty but rather on a calculated gamble. That gamble didn't pay off.
 
  • #1,548
Back at the beginning of searching in the Indian Ocean, a Chinese ship reported hearing a ping and then later another ping. An Australian ship also picked up a ping, but they did not hear any more and could not find anything. Time was running out on the beacons but the sound is said to be heard from a long distance.

Xinhua, which has a reporter on board the vessel, said the pulse had been detected by the patrol ship Haixun's black box detector at around 25 degrees south and 101 degrees east, within the 84,000-sq-mile search zone.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/05/mh370-chinese-patrol-ship-detects-pulse-signal

and another link with a map showing where the pings were heard at 2:44 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/flight-mh370-recap-maritime-expert-3376572


Now they are proposing a new search near the Broken Ridge area. Is this in the same general area where the pings were originally heard and dismissed?
This link includes a map of the proposed area.

The search area for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 should be expanded to the Broken Ridge region, slightly north of the existing search area.

Read More : http://www.nst.com.my/news/2016/07/...-mh370-could-be-slightly-north-current-search
 
  • #1,549
By Euan McKirdy, CNN
Updated 3:05 AM ET, Thu July 28, 2016
(CNN)The home flight simulator belonging to the MH370 pilot had a route plotted into it which ended in the Indian Ocean, officials have confirmed.

"The MH370 captain's flight simulator showed someone had plotted a course to the southern Indian Ocean," Joint Agency Coordination Center (JACC) spokesman Scott Mashford confirmed to CNN in an email. He did not elaborate on who may have plotted the route.

The confirmation corroborates earlier reports that the device had programmed in it a route similar to the one which investigators believe the doomed flight took on its final voyage.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/asia/mh370-pilot-flight-simulator/

Well, this confirms what I've thought all along- it was pilot suicide.
 
  • #1,550
July 28, 2016
5:05 am EDT

MH370: Captain's home simulator had Indian Ocean course plotted

Last week New York Magazine reported that files created just weeks before the ill-fated MH370 flight in March 2014, which never arrived in Beijing as scheduled, were discovered on Zaharie's home simulator, an elaborate setup that the pilot used in his downtime for several years.

According to the magazine, the FBI analyzed hard drives from a flight simulator the pilot had built using Microsoft Flight Simulator X software. The FBI was able to recover data points from the program that pointed to the southern Indian Ocean.

Searchers have scoured about 110,000 square miles in a remote part of the southern Indian Ocean, hunting for traces of the passenger jet and the 239 people it was carrying. The multimillion-dollar effort involved several ships with special equipment scanning sections of the sea floor.

Several pieces of debris have been recovered -- one off the coast of Reunion Island, which sits east of Madagascar, and other pieces in Mauritius, South Africa and Mozambique. The search continues.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...lot-flight-simulator/index.html?client=safari


ETA-------Adding to LinasK(sorry didn't see I had the same information, so I gave additional thanks
 
  • #1,551
By Euan McKirdy, CNN
Updated 3:05 AM ET, Thu July 28, 2016
(CNN)The home flight simulator belonging to the MH370 pilot had a route plotted into it which ended in the Indian Ocean, officials have confirmed.

"The MH370 captain's flight simulator showed someone had plotted a course to the southern Indian Ocean," Joint Agency Coordination Center (JACC) spokesman Scott Mashford confirmed to CNN in an email. He did not elaborate on who may have plotted the route.

The confirmation corroborates earlier reports that the device had programmed in it a route similar to the one which investigators believe the doomed flight took on its final voyage.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/asia/mh370-pilot-flight-simulator/

Well, this confirms what I've thought all along- it was pilot suicide.

I appreciate your confidence in the findings, but many questions still arise in my mind.
Like, what exactly was the route the simulator showed?
Were there other routes also shown during the same time frame?
Why did the plane turn to the left instead of the right that fateful night?
If they had turned to the right instead, would they have missed all the radars from other countries?
Did the simulator route show all the turns the plane may have made to avoid radars?
What about the altitude fluctuations?
Were they also tried on the simulator?
Does the simulator show where radar is available from other countries and where to go to avoid being seen?


From your link,
"The simulator information shows only the possibility of planning. It does not reveal what happened on the night of the aircraft's disappearance, nor where the aircraft is located."
 
  • #1,552
Your questions are impossible to answer, if we knew the answers we would be able to find the jet. WHY the jet did what it did was unknown but all this put together leads me also to think this was planned by the pilot. Too many ridiculous coincidences for this to be just an accident.

We dont know why the pilot turned left since it was totally off course. Why did the jet fly 6 hours totally off course and crash in the middle of the Indian Ocean? There is no reasonable explanation at all except for the fact the pilot wanted this jet to not be found. A right turn would have been more problematic and probably would have entered air space and had a better chance of being detected, we don't know.

The altitude fluctuations are suspected to have occured to depressurize the cabin and kill everyone on board. Again no real explanation for this but it is obvious someone was piloting the jet for 6 hours so that indicates at least the pilot was alive.

The jet was detected on Vietnamese military radar and they failed to act because they deemed the jet was civilian and not a threat, even though they were off course.

Alot of questions, few answers.




I appreciate your confidence in the findings, but many questions still arise in my mind.
Like, what exactly was the route the simulator showed?
Were there other routes also shown during the same time frame?
Why did the plane turn to the left instead of the right that fateful night?
If they had turned to the right instead, would they have missed all the radars from other countries?
Did the simulator route show all the turns the plane may have made to avoid radars?
What about the altitude fluctuations?
Were they also tried on the simulator?
Does the simulator show where radar is available from other countries and where to go to avoid being seen?


From your link,
"The simulator information shows only the possibility of planning. It does not reveal what happened on the night of the aircraft's disappearance, nor where the aircraft is located."
 
  • #1,553
Your questions are impossible to answer, if we knew the answers we would be able to find the jet. WHY the jet did what it did was unknown but all this put together leads me also to think this was planned by the pilot. Too many ridiculous coincidences for this to be just an accident.

We dont know why the pilot turned left since it was totally off course. Why did the jet fly 6 hours totally off course and crash in the middle of the Indian Ocean? There is no reasonable explanation at all except for the fact the pilot wanted this jet to not be found. A right turn would have been more problematic and probably would have entered air space and had a better chance of being detected, we don't know.

The altitude fluctuations are suspected to have occured to depressurize the cabin and kill everyone on board. Again no real explanation for this but it is obvious someone was piloting the jet for 6 hours so that indicates at least the pilot was alive.

The jet was detected on Vietnamese military radar and they failed to act because they deemed the jet was civilian and not a threat, even though they were off course.

Alot of questions, few answers.

Thank you for taking time to try and answer my questions.
I guess I didn't explain well enough what I was getting at by all the questions.

The article was saying that they found the simulator had a route plotted into its system that had been deleted and then discovered. This route ended up with a plane going into the Indian Ocean. What I was trying to question was what else did that route or other routes they discovered show? Were there any other times that he "ran" the same route? Were there any deviations in the routes? Was someone else playing with the simulator? We don't know the answers but whoever combed through the simulator data surely knew the importance of what all the records would show. I would hope that they didn't just pick one that was similar to what they expect happened and ignored the rest?

I guess the bottom line for me is that just because a route was on the simulator, it doesn't prove to me yet that he deliberately crashed the plane.
 
  • #1,554
Thank you for taking time to try and answer my questions.
I guess I didn't explain well enough what I was getting at by all the questions.

The article was saying that they found the simulator had a route plotted into its system that had been deleted and then discovered. This route ended up with a plane going into the Indian Ocean. What I was trying to question was what else did that route or other routes they discovered show? Were there any other times that he "ran" the same route? Were there any deviations in the routes? Was someone else playing with the simulator? We don't know the answers but whoever combed through the simulator data surely knew the importance of what all the records would show. I would hope that they didn't just pick one that was similar to what they expect happened and ignored the rest?

I guess the bottom line for me is that just because a route was on the simulator, it doesn't prove to me yet that he deliberately crashed the plane.

I think it would be more damning if the route followed the exact same odd maneuvers as Malaysia Air took. A route that ended in the ocean along with a bunch that landed safely? Not as much "proof" to me. But I don't think they've given much detail on that front.
 
  • #1,555
I think it would be more damning if the route followed the exact same odd maneuvers as Malaysia Air took. A route that ended in the ocean along with a bunch that landed safely? Not as much "proof" to me. But I don't think they've given much detail on that front.

Thank you for putting into words what I was trying to say.
 
  • #1,556
Back at the beginning of searching in the Indian Ocean, a Chinese ship reported hearing a ping and then later another ping. An Australian ship also picked up a ping, but they did not hear any more and could not find anything. Time was running out on the beacons but the sound is said to be heard from a long distance.

Xinhua, which has a reporter on board the vessel, said the pulse had been detected by the patrol ship Haixun's black box detector at around 25 degrees south and 101 degrees east, within the 84,000-sq-mile search zone.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/05/mh370-chinese-patrol-ship-detects-pulse-signal

and another link with a map showing where the pings were heard at 2:44 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/flight-mh370-recap-maritime-expert-3376572


Now they are proposing a new search near the Broken Ridge area. Is this in the same general area where the pings were originally heard and dismissed?
This link includes a map of the proposed area.

The search area for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 should be expanded to the Broken Ridge region, slightly north of the existing search area.

Read More : http://www.nst.com.my/news/2016/07/...-mh370-could-be-slightly-north-current-search

Thanks for posting this, I totally forgot. Hopefully someone will bring this up to the family members, maybe they can motive a search in that zone.

I appreciate your confidence in the findings, but many questions still arise in my mind.
Like, what exactly was the route the simulator showed?
Were there other routes also shown during the same time frame?
Why did the plane turn to the left instead of the right that fateful night?
If they had turned to the right instead, would they have missed all the radars from other countries?
Did the simulator route show all the turns the plane may have made to avoid radars?
What about the altitude fluctuations?
Were they also tried on the simulator?
Does the simulator show where radar is available from other countries and where to go to avoid being seen?

From your link,
"The simulator information shows only the possibility of planning. It does not reveal what happened on the night of the aircraft's disappearance, nor where the aircraft is located."

They're not going to give us specifics. I posted that an aviation expert said others do the same in reply 1541

We do have a photo of the SIM flight

Captain Desmond Ross, an aviation expert with three decades experience as a pilot, agrees there has been a distinct lack of transparency and says that many pilots plot unusual courses on home flight simulators for legitimate reasons. “I think there is a lot of information being withheld from the investigation,” he says. “I’m sure the Malaysians are withholding information.” ....

Exclusive: MH370 Pilot Flew a Suicide Route on His Home Simulator Closely Matching Final Flight By Jeff Wise

MH370's presumed flight path is in yellow. Zaharie's simulated suicide flight is in red.
MH370PresumedPathYellowZaharieSIMflightRed.jpg

I had found this in one of the articles on how the plane would remain intact if it is

attachment.php


AirplaneRemainIntact.jpg
 
  • #1,557
Thanks for posting this, I totally forgot. Hopefully someone will bring this up to the family members, maybe they can motive a search in that zone.



They're not going to give us specifics. I posted that an aviation expert said others do the same in reply 1541

We do have a photo of the SIM flight



Exclusive: MH370 Pilot Flew a Suicide Route on His Home Simulator Closely Matching Final Flight By Jeff Wise

MH370's presumed flight path is in yellow. Zaharie's simulated suicide flight is in red.
View attachment 99020

I had found this in one of the articles on how the plane would remain intact if it is

attachment.php


View attachment 99023

Thanks for finding this map of the simulated flight vs the presumed one. The main similarity is they both end up in the Indian Ocean.

What is really interesting on this map is the Broken Ridge they are talking about may be right where it's lighter blue on the 30 degrees south latitude line. If we look again at where the pings were heard by the Chinese ship (around 25 degrees south and 101 degrees east), Broken Ridge is in the right vicinity. The exact Chinese location would be under the "corn" in Capricorn just east of the 100 degrees east longitude. but sounds can travel some distance which could distort the location. It looks like the simulator route may be right on target or would it be just following the normal codes for flight navigation?
Wow! We may have found the new search area where the plane could be.

Also, it was neat to see what happens to an intact plane. I don't know what it would mean if all the debris ends up coming from the left side. Would that mean one side came down first or did the wing hit a big wave first?
 
  • #1,558
Thanks for finding this map of the simulated flight vs the presumed one. The main similarity is they both end up in the Indian Ocean.

What is really interesting on this map is the Broken Ridge they are talking about may be right where it's lighter blue on the 30 degrees south latitude line. If we look again at where the pings were heard by the Chinese ship (around 25 degrees south and 101 degrees east), Broken Ridge is in the right vicinity. The exact Chinese location would be under the "corn" in Capricorn just east of the 100 degrees east longitude. but sounds can travel some distance which could distort the location. It looks like the simulator route may be right on target or would it be just following the normal codes for flight navigation?
Wow! We may have found the new search area where the plane could be.

Also, it was neat to see what happens to an intact plane. I don't know what it would mean if all the debris ends up coming from the left side. Would that mean one side came down first or did the wing hit a big wave first?

I have to do errands, but did look at what you're saying. I have a photo with the search area and Broken Ridge

attachment.php


NewSearchArea.jpg
 
  • #1,559
I have to do errands, but did look at what you're saying. I have a photo with the search area and Broken Ridge

attachment.php


View attachment 99045

This is a good map. I believe it shows the same area I was talking about. I wish the lats and longitudes showed on it though.

If they do decide to search this area and if they do find the plane, they should go back and review the distance from where the pings were heard to the crash site. It may have been just by chance that the last pings were heard almost five weeks into the search just as the time frame closed. This info on how far the ping sounds carry underwater could be a crucial tool for any new crash site.

Prayers that the plane will be found.
 
  • #1,560
This is a good map. I believe it shows the same area I was talking about. I wish the lats and longitudes showed on it though.

If they do decide to search this area and if they do find the plane, they should go back and review the distance from where the pings were heard to the crash site. It may have been just by chance that the last pings were heard almost five weeks into the search just as the time frame closed. This info on how far the ping sounds carry underwater could be a crucial tool for any new crash site.

Prayers that the plane will be found.

I was happy to have caught it in one of the articles. I wish I was good with mapping, I used to be ok, till google changed the site, now I don't know how to add a 3rd location to my trip lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Guardians Monthly Goal

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
160
Guests online
5,859
Total visitors
6,019

Forum statistics

Threads
637,979
Messages
18,721,038
Members
244,235
Latest member
Joeglover89
Back
Top